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Did Paul Have a Woman as His Pastor? (Charisma News)


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1 hour ago, PlanetChee said:
2 hours ago, OneLight said:

:40:not another one.  Why can't we just do as God leads us to do without arguing about titles?

I don't know about "another one". But I do agree. Let's see if people accept what the Bible says about women being vested by God with His spiritual authority. Anything else would be, what? 

In order to do that, one would have to accept all of scripture as written.  Are you prepared to do that also?

As for "another one", do a search for women authority.  You will come back with 106 pages of posts to read.  The first three pages brought up six different threads where this has been discussed in the last couple of months.

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3 minutes ago, OneLight said:

In order to do that, one would have to accept all of scripture as written.  Are you prepared to do that also?

As for "another one", do a search for women authority.  You will come back with 106 pages of posts to read.  The first three pages brought up six different threads where this has been discussed in the last couple of months.

No, we don't have to accept all the scriptures as written in order to recognize the scriptures in that article exist. 

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8 minutes ago, PlanetChee said:

No, we don't have to accept all the scriptures as written. What I think has to happen is plastering human failings on God and then thinking God said that. When he didn't. 

We don't?  That is knows as cherry picking scripture to fit ones theology.  If we don't accept scripture, what is there to fall back on.  Unless, of course, you are referring to statements like "if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out".  That is an allegorical statement.  Common sense and proper hermeneutics helps.

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Just now, OneLight said:

We don't?  That is knows as cherry picking scripture to fit ones theology.  If we don't accept scripture, what is there to fall back on.  Unless, of course, you are referring to statements like "if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out".  Common sense and proper hermeneutics helps.

But that's not what you stated in your ultimatum. "In order to do that, one would have to accept all of scripture as written.  Are you prepared to do that also?" 

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Just now, PlanetChee said:

But that's not what you stated in your ultimatum. "In order to do that, one would have to accept all of scripture as written.  Are you prepared to do that also?" 

In the realm of women being in authority over men, yes, that is what I meant.  One has to accept all that is said about women and authority over men if one is expected others to accept what history shows about women in authority.  I am sure you can understood what I meant, or at least, I hope you could.

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5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

In the realm of women being in authority over men, yes, that is what I meant.  One has to accept all that is said about women and authority over men if one is expected others to accept what history shows about women in authority.  I am sure you can understood what I meant, or at least, I hope you could.

 I think if one were ready to do that, they'd likely not argue against what is written in the scripture attesting to the history the Bible records concerning women in places of authority.

I'm going to leave our discussion there. Two posts that attempt to imply slights to my intellect are not conducive to a cordial communication. 

Thank you for your time. 

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5 minutes ago, PlanetChee said:

 I think if one were ready to do that, they'd likely not argue against what is written in the scripture attesting to the history the Bible records concerning women in places of authority.

I'm going to leave our discussion there. Two posts that attempt to imply slights to my intellect are not conducive to a cordial communication. 

Thank you for your time. 

I see that by trying to prepare you for what can of worms you are opening is considered as slights to your intellect.  Strange how when you make points to others its OK, but if someone happens to make points to you, it's insulting.  Not much for open discussions with one sided communications, is there.

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Does God allow women to rule over men?

Yes!  Absolutely.

But only as a shame unto them and by Gods confession it leads to their destruction when women lead.

Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Amen.

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12 hours ago, gdemoss said:

Does God allow women to rule over men?

Yes!  Absolutely.

But only as a shame unto them and by Gods confession it leads to their destruction when women lead.

Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Amen.

Amen? You give blessing to what is reported there as destruction to a people? 

When in reality you would have to consolidate that out of context excerpt that is not speaking in the way you hope against women leaders, with those scriptures in the OP and the linked article, that show God and his Angel also in one passage, appointed women to be in leadership over men. Even those who claim those women were Deaconesses were still in leadership over men. And that then rebuffs what is claimed by some about the new testament pastoral letters Paul sent to Corinth. Instructing that women should not speak in church. 

In reality, the truth and full context of Isaiah 3 is not what you hope. 

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/isaiah-31-15-a-commentary/

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On 5/29/2017 at 6:22 PM, PlanetChee said:

I found this article linked at Charisma when reading an article about someone else. 

Charisma News Article Linked

Phoebe was a woman leader for whom Paul had great respect as is borne out in the language he used to describe her. The power of his words is lost in our English translations but is very obvious in the Greek (Rom. 16:1-2). In fact, an argument could be made from Paul's own words that Phoebe had once functioned in a pastoral-type role toward him.

Phoebe Was a Minister

In Romans 16:1, Paul refers to Phoebe as, "A servant of the church in Cenchrea." The English word "servant" in this passage is misleading. It is from the Greek word diakonos and should be translated as "minister."

Indeed, diakonos is translated as "minister" in 23 places where it is used of men, including Paul, Barnabas and Apollos (1 Cor. 3:4). In this one place where it is used of a woman, these same translators chose to use the word "servant," a clear example of their bias (Hyatt, Paul, Women and Church, 26).

Diakonos does literally means "servant" but became a word for Christian leaders as a result of Jesus using it in response to the request by James and John for special seats of power in His kingdom. Jesus replied that whoever wanted to be great must become a diakonos, that is, a "servant."

From that declaration of Jesus, diakonos became a common designation for Christian ministers, highlighting the servant character of Christian leadership. The well-known evangelical theologian, E. Earle Ellis, wrote:

Diakonos is used frequently in the Pauline letters for those who exercise ministries of teaching and preaching. The title is given to Paul and to a number of his associates who are active on a continuing basis as traveling missionaries or as coworkers in local congregations. In terms of modern function, it best corresponds to the modern designation "minister" (Hyatt, Paul, Women and Church, 27).

Designating Phoebe as a diakonos shows that she was a "minister" from the church in Cenchrea who had been sent by that church to Rome on a special assignment. Paul recognizes her as such by using the same word for her that he uses for himself, for Barnabas and for Apollos.

Read More @ Charisma News 

 

 

I just found your post Chee. :)

I wonder how many went to the Hyatt book link at Amazon? The look inside feature is great.https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Women-Church-Eddie-Hyatt/dp/1888435569/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1495420871&sr=8-1&keywords=Eddie+Hyatt&linkCode=sl1&tag=httpwwweddieh-20&linkId=995db4821219594d2f12e612b4ab898d

The authors, husband and wife, are all about bringing the truth of the gospels forward so as to restore to the church Biblical equality. That's a great endeavor being there today is a committment to the sin of sexual bigotry by many in the church. 

Don't let that be obstructed by the facts that speak otherwise. As you can see Chee. I know. Sad isn't it. People that need to see a wall around people of Christ will form any division even corrupting the words of God's Spirit in order to maintain. 
Do you subscribe to Charisma? 

This is important to share here from the article you've posted. Because I don't think anyone read it. Those opposed to Biblical equality aren't up to being proven wrong I have found in my travels. Looks to be the same here too. Sadly enough. Don't be discouraged. As long as God knows he calls women into his service who cares about anyone else thinking that's not possible? And what nerve! 

 

 

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/65047-did-paul-have-a-woman-as-his-pastor

What About Women Being Silent?

"But," some will protest, "What about Paul's calls for female silence and submission in 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12?

A careful examination of those passages reveal that Paul is responding to local situations in Corinth and Ephesus, and his statements were never meant to be applied across the board to all women and all churches everywhere.

To make those two passages the controlling passages concerning women leads to the denial of the fact that Paul recognizes numerous women preachers and teachers who are his coworkers and fellow ministers in the gospel. These include Phoebe, Priscilla, Junia, Tryphena, Tryphosa and those women in Philippi whom he says, "labored with me in the gospel" (Phil. 4:3).

Conclusion

Yes, Phoebe was a respected Christian leader in the early church with qualities we would expect in a modern-day pastor. The evidence indicates that she may well have functioned in a pastoral-type ministry toward Paul at some point in his life. torch1.png

This article was derived from Dr. Eddie Hyatt's latest book, Paul, Women and Church, available from Amazon and his website at eddiehyatt.com.

Dr. Eddie Hyatt is an author, historian and biblical scholar. His books on church history, church order and spiritual awakening are available from Amazon and his website at eddiehyatt.com.

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