SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,051 Content Per Day: 15.58 Reputation: 5,189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 15 hours ago, bryan said: Q1: Yes. It's similar to other non-biblical practices in churches used to drive membership and funding. Q2: No Q3: Not me Q4: I don't believe in the popular interpretation of 'speaking in tongues'. For me, it's gibberish. Q5: Never have. Years ago, one of my best friends joined a church, invited me, then decided we could never be friends any more because I didn't speak in tongues. Q6: For a church, it's a way to make others believe those some have a 'more direct' connection to God. If they use that to interpret or derive answers, that's all the more worse. I have noticed a certain snobbery by a few charismatics against those of us who do not speak in tongues, or in my case, once spoke in tongues but no longer do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,051 Content Per Day: 15.58 Reputation: 5,189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 49 minutes ago, Yowm said: 1 Corinthians 14:2,4 KJV [2] For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him ; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. [4] He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. It appears that tongues is more for private edification, whereas prophesying is for the edification of the Church. Maybe that is why when tongues are done in a public setting, there needs to be a interpreter... 1 Corinthians 14:13-14,22-23,27-28 KJV [13] Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. [22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. [23] If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? [27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. So if one speaks in an unknown (presumably the speaker does not even know what he's saying) language, he speaks only to God. So how is he to know if someone in church can interpret his utterances if this is done in church? Do you see the confusion here? How do we know the interpretation is correct? Answer: we checked it against God's word, the Bible. So if we have God's word in the Bible, are tongues still necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,051 Content Per Day: 15.58 Reputation: 5,189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Yowm said: It says if no one is interpreting then they are to keep silent. So if someone gives a prophecy in tongues and there is no interpretation given, then he and any others are to keep silent. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 KJV [27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. All prophecy, even any teaching is to be checked against God's Word (Bereans Acts 17). We don't cease teaching, so why should they have ceased tongues, since 'we already have God's Word in the bible'. How do you know there is one to interpret until after you speak? After you speak, you can't be silent. All tongues should be judged against the Bible. But at the time Corinthians was written, the Bible had not been collected together and it was certainly not spread around for the people to read in their own language. That would occur centuries later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,051 Content Per Day: 15.58 Reputation: 5,189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Yowm said: After one person speaks, if there is no interpretation the others are to keep silent. 1 Corinthians 14:28 KJV [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. You don't think they had the bible then? Where was Genesis through Malachi? Where is tongues discussed in the Old Testament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,051 Content Per Day: 15.58 Reputation: 5,189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, Yowm said: After one person speaks, if there is no interpretation the others are to keep silent. 1 Corinthians 14:28 KJV [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. You don't think they had the bible then? Where was Genesis through Malachi? The problem here is that an interpreter is not sought until after the message in tongues. So unless only one person is allowed to speak in tongues, or more than one message in tongues is spoken by the same worshipper, this doesn't make sense to me. As I noted earlier, I witnessed two polar opposite interpretations of one message in tongues. This cannot be. Without getting into specifics, a Biblical case could be made for both interpretations. The Bible speaks about tongues ceasing. "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." - I Corinthians 13:8 When does this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,051 Content Per Day: 15.58 Reputation: 5,189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Yowm said: I'm talking about testing what is spoken in tongues/ prophecy/teaching against the Scriptures of the Old testament. I thought that was what you were referring to. In this we are in agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,051 Content Per Day: 15.58 Reputation: 5,189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Yowm said: Then you explain v.28. If tongues ceased then so has knowledge. 13:8 is referring to our glorification when we see Him face to face. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. So if an interpreter is not available, the person to whom a message is given is to speak to himself and to God. One could argue the church could designate an interpreter for a known language. If a known language interpreter for the person with the spiritual message is not available, he should speak to himself and pray silently to God. Speaking Spanish to a Hebrew/Christian church would edify no one if there was no one to translate. Spanish would be an unknown language to the people in the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,365 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 31, 2017 23 hours ago, daughterofGrace said: Thanks for those clarifications, Savedonebygrace. I appreciate it. I'm sorry about the tremors. Must be so frustrating for you. I have to spend limited time keyboarding because of chronic pain in neck, back, wrists and hands. So I can empathize. I have not had the experience with proponents of the prosperity gospel that you have and don't feel qualified to comment about that. However, I do speak in tongues. Years ago, when I was reading about the gifts of the Spirit, I asked God specifically about tongues, whether it was something I needed or not. Then, one night, at a service, I was praying and suddenly I started praying in tongues. It's a prayer language. I have never uttered tongues out loud during a service. I can understand some people's skepticism about them and they can certainly be abused. Paul had to correct the church at Corinth for the chaos tongues was causing. And I have a problem with any church that says a person HAS to speak in tongues as a witness that he/she is truly filled with the Holy Spirit. Paul makes it clear that gifts of the Spirit are apportioned as the Spirit sees fit. That means we aren't all going to manifest all of them all the time. The Holy Spirit will empower us to use them for his purpose, not ours. I have known many fine born-again believers who never spoke in tongues. Not sure if that's the kind of information you were looking for, but there it is. A wife should wish to know her husband fully! It is not accomplished by withholding that knowledge in communicated understanding.... I speak of Christ and His Bride! 21 hours ago, Behold said: Now about that "prosperity gospel"...... Well, money is necessary, and prosperity is another word for "FAVOR" in your New Testament.......but.....the issue with the "prosperity gospel" becomes an issue when its the ONLY subject-topic in the speaker's agenda., as when that happens then GREED is being preached to the greedy. So, speaking about abundance, money, health, prosperity...., are all good biblical topics, but this message becomes an issue when it becomes the ONLY topic, as that IS the issue,= often regarding these types of teachers. According to the highest example given 'The temptation of our Lord' *nothing in this world* is as important as His Word and living it's precepts fully.... 18 hours ago, Behold said: - ... Over the years, as i've watched the "TV Preachers" get stranded on the "Prosperity Gospel", i realized that this happens to them because they have to stay on this $$$$$ topic to stay on TV. Its really that simple...... They are caught in a harsh financial situation where many of them are literally forced to spend 95% of their "on Air" time asking you to send in that money, or else they cant pay the operating costs of a huge TV ministry. Their TV Ministry has become a trap. They are trapped trying to keep it going $$$$$$$$$$$, and that is probably why the majority of them just beat you with "giving and giving and giving". They have no choice. = They are STUCK. 2 Peter 2:20 (KJV) [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: So if one speaks in an unknown (presumably the speaker does not even know what he's saying) language, he speaks only to God. So how is he to know if someone in church can interpret his utterances if this is done in church? Do you see the confusion here? How do we know the interpretation is correct? Answer: we checked it against God's word, the Bible. So if we have God's word in the Bible, are tongues still necessary? We know that The Word (Jesus) is without begin and end but has taken on the mantle of flesh with begin and no end... certainly communication is as The Being of God (Father, Son, Spirit) without end and therefore naturally supercedes that which we have learned in this place BUT with also HOWEVER we have this 1 Corinthians 14:19 (KJV) [19] Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. which urges the s/Spiritual desire of communication with understanding -why- because it is The Essence of The Eternal Union of God The Father, Son and Spirit in the eternal past communcating the elections, councils pryor to the creation itself -which God alone knows in His Persons... here is where Words cannot be formed for they are not neccessary but we are not there are we... we are there in His plans, in His Ownself, but we are here and now in need of knowing Him according to His Communication of Himself through His Word! For those of you who are practicing tongues Biblically in private prayer or interpretation in group ... I wish to stress to you the need of relationship by renewing of the mind by the washing of water through His Word rightly divided and understood by The Teacher The Holy Spirit The Spirit of The Christ ... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,365 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 31, 2017 25 minutes ago, Yowm said: Then you explain v.28. If tongues ceased then so has knowledge. 13:8 is referring to our glorification when we see Him face to face. Trace this out in The Word for me will you? This time frame where you have if one then the other also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,365 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, Yowm said: 1 Corinthians 13:8 NASB [8] Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. If one argues tongues have already ceased, it would follow so has knowledge . So where's the Scripture giving your so far assumed time frames of this? It not in grammer so it must be somewhere else your arriving at this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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