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Questions for a Frank and Open Discussion about Cults & Speaking in Tongues


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Blessings SObG

     In the qoute you referenced Jeff mentioned the word "order".....Our Lord is NEVER out of "order",the very moment there is any confusion,chaos or mayhem(lol) we can be sure this is not from God......The conflicting interpretations brought confusion,I would guess the pastor may not have been speaking anything more than jibberish in the first place....I find that it is quite odd that the LOrd would bring that type of disorder to a service although I have seen  many things,the pastor is addressing everyone....you don't find it unusual that he would just start speaking in tongues during worship?  I don't know,just asking cause I was not there                    With love-in Christ,Kwik

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5 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

So then,  did you find out the simple truth finally, after that ?

Or still have questions (from the OP or others) ?

The simple truth is someone claiming to speak in tongues (giving voice to the Holy Spirit) may or may not truly be speaking as the Holy Spirit gives him/her utterance.  We judge what is said against the truth of God's word.  For me and my wife, praying to God in English has been sufficient for God to meet and exceed our needs.  He knows what we need before we speak it, and He receives our praise without a translator.

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4 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings SObG

     In the qoute you referenced Jeff mentioned the word "order".....Our Lord is NEVER out of "order",the very moment there is any confusion,chaos or mayhem(lol) we can be sure this is not from God......The conflicting interpretations brought confusion,I would guess the pastor may not have been speaking anything more than jibberish in the first place....I find that it is quite odd that the LOrd would bring that type of disorder to a service although I have seen  many things,the pastor is addressing everyone....you don't find it unusual that he would just start speaking in tongues during worship?  I don't know,just asking cause I was not there                    With love-in Christ,Kwik

I'll give you a little background.  The pastor had a vision of a stadium sized mega church and was setting out for a campaign to raise money to go from a 6000 seat church, to a 10000 seat church.  The church hierarchy even hired non-Christian fundraisers to assist in gaining the financial support they needed.  So during the pastor's prayer in tongues, one person interpreted it to mean God was behind the pastor's vision.  The other interpretation came directly after from someone in the balcony.  He spoke that this was not in God's time and the pastor needed to wait.  The pastor was embarrassed hearing conflicting interpretations so the following Sunday, no interpretations were allowed.  They would only be allowed on a weekday's service.

So the building program was announced and the 10000 seat church was achieved.  Sometime after this he started to bring in eastern visualization techniques to "enhance" healing.  That's when my wife and I decided to leave.

We were alternate leaders of a home bible study program about that same time.  At the start of the home bible study, the pastor "laid hands" on us and prophesized about us.  When he got to my wife, he had a long detailed prophecy about her.  When he got to me, he didn't say much and just moved on.  I felt nothing when he laid hands on me.  I have felt clean and unclean spirits before, my salvation testimony attests to that.  But here, I felt nothing. 

I have to quit because my hands are shaking too much.

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Blessings Brother

    You have shared a lot with me in reference to that church before,I won't mention any names but I know what you are talking about.....its really sad,I don't doubt that many of these people were lead by God but they got off track along the Way......these things never fail to remind me of King Saul,whether they are Saved or not has nothing to do with the fact that God Will remove His Anointing and give it to another when you stop "LISTENING" ,because an idea seems like a "good" thing does not mean it is "Gods Thing"!!!!                                     I guess he did not appreciate "the Voice from the Balcony".....in more ways than one!                        With love from Your Sis

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15 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Brother

    You have shared a lot with me in reference to that church before,I won't mention any names but I know what you are talking about.....its really sad,I don't doubt that many of these people were lead by God but they got off track along the Way......these things never fail to remind me of King Saul,whether they are Saved or not has nothing to do with the fact that God Will remove His Anointing and give it to another when you stop "LISTENING" ,because an idea seems like a "good" thing does not mean it is "Gods Thing"!!!!                                     I guess he did not appreciate "the Voice from the Balcony".....in more ways than one!                        With love from Your Sis

Everyone in our home bible study eventually left the church and with unfortunate results happening.  Three divorces; one couple returned to the RCC; one executive moved with his wife to Boston where she was routinely "body shamed" for being a little overweight; another couple moved to California after she received an inheritance from her father's death, ended up moving back to Missouri where her husband got his old job back but lost his shift preference from 1st to 3rd, lost all her inheritance, went through severe depression requiring electric shock treatments, etc.  They believed they were hearing from God.  They lost their house, health, and all their inheritance money.  I worked with the man.  He thought he was hearing from God.  I don't know who he was listening to but I can't imagine God had any part in what happened.  My wife ran into his wife before we left Missouri and said she didn't remember who my wife was and walked around the grocery story like a zombie.  Electric shock sometimes does that to people.

Back to the church, it continues to this day but attendance has leveled off to about the same level when we were there, 30 years ago.  It's not a growing church.  A casino and a amphitheater were built on the property the pastor envisioned for his stadium church.  The group of people they (and my wife and I) followed while we worshipped there included: Kenneth Hagin; Kenneth Copeland; Marylyn Hickey; Oral Roberts; Jerry Savelle; E. W. Kenyon; Charles Capps; Robert Tilton; Fred Price; and a few others I can't remember their names anymore.  I'm fairly certain E. W. Kenyon was deceased, and we just read books/booklets he previously authored.

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Wow Brother...thats a sad sad story ......heart breaking      I'm glad you went through it all though and you & your wife are WHO you are today using all that experience to Bless others,praise Jesus! We can pray for the others and Hope for the same,our HOPE remains in Christ Jesus.....                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

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Q1: Yes.  It's similar to other non-biblical practices in churches used to drive membership and funding.

Q2: No

Q3: Not me

Q4: I don't believe in the popular interpretation of 'speaking in tongues'.  For me, it's gibberish.

Q5: Never have.  Years ago, one of my best friends joined a church, invited me, then decided we could never be friends any more because I didn't speak in tongues.

Q6: For a church, it's a way to make others believe those some have a 'more direct' connection to God.  If they use that to interpret or derive answers, that's all the more worse.

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3 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

:amen::thumbsup:

-

... Over the years, as i've watched the "TV Preachers" get stranded on the "Prosperity Gospel", i realized that this happens to them because they have to stay on this $$$$$  topic to stay on TV.    Its really that simple...... They are caught in a harsh financial situation where many of them  are literally forced to spend 95% of their "on Air"  time  asking you to send in that money, or else they cant pay the operating costs of a huge TV ministry.

Their TV Ministry has become a trap.  They are trapped trying to keep it going $$$$$$$$$$$, and that is probably why the majority of them just beat you with "giving and giving and giving".

They have no choice. = They are STUCK.

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Blessing Behold

   Oh boy do I ever agree with you, it is a TRAP.... Just another snare the enemy has found to be very successful

    If only these televangelists , producers etc would just believe that God Provides for His.... They neednt ask for a single thing if it is what God Has for them..,, I was impressed by what Matt Crouch said about the " Praise a thons" they had for so very many years at TBN.... He said " God Has Provided for 40 years & Will continue to do so as long as we keep listening & following what He Wants us to do here"

No more peddling the Scriptures is what I see and its fantastic....Praise Jesus Now that doesnt mean all the preachers will folliw suit for their individual broadcasts but the network has done a wonderful thing

     With love- in Christ, Kwik

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10 hours ago, Yowm said:

1. Born again believers should discern such.

2. No, unless you mean the eternal riches given freely to believers.

3. It was during my 'struggle of conversion' I ran into some Charismatics speaking in tongues, but it was not part of my decision for Christ.

4. I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit while in jail, but I don't speak in tongues, but neither do I discount that gift.

5. see #4

6.For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
(1Co 14:2)...

The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
(1Co 14:4)

I pretty much agree with what you've written 1-5.  But how do you reconcile 1 Co 14:2 and 1 Co 14:4 in your mind?

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