Jump to content
IGNORED

When the blessings don't come


ricky

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  7
  • Topic Count:  87
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  3,795
  • Content Per Day:  1.36
  • Reputation:   6
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  07/30/2016
  • Status:  Offline

On 5/30/2017 at 10:31 AM, ricky said:

I have a question for those who espouse the "word of faith" movement aka the "Prosperty gospel". What happens when the financial blessings don't come, or the healing you have been believing in isn't there? How does that affect your faith in the sufficiency of Christ? Do you ever question your faith as a whole?

Hey Ricky, 

Your thread is making the assumption that if a person, a believer, accepts that his Father (God) wants them to have an abundant life, then this is not acceptable theology.

The NT does not agree with or support your general assumption, and let me show you why.

First, there can be found in some believers and within some denominations,  an obsession with waiting on God (by faith) to solve every issue, while their life passes them by.....

The balance is.....We are to do all we can in the "natural" and God does what He does in the supernatural.   God leaves the effort to us, and we leave the results to God.

Here is what you can believe......You can believe that God is good all the time, He loves His children, and He wants them to open their hearts and their "issues" to Him, so that by their "faith", He is able to answer and help.

You can believe that if God will give you the life and blood of His Son, ... then he does not mind it if you have money and a really great life, complete with health and "stuff", as long as your heart is not obsessed with "things of this world" and your understanding of the  concept that "gain is not godliness" is sincere as is your motive regarding everything you do in your life and with your life.

You can believer that "poverty is the destruction of the Poor", and that poverty has harmed more already then Prosperity ever will.

Something else you might consider, is that everything you have, everything you own, belongs to God....And not you.....See, you are "bought with a price', you are "not your own", and that means your money and your stuff ALSO belongs to God, exactly the same as you belong to God.... And God has no issue with riches, money, prosperity, as He created the "Favor" and the "Blessings" that come to us and upon us.

You probably have not been taught that "tithing" is giving God 10% back of what is already the other 90% that is His.

God is letting you use HIS money, and the tithe and the offering and the giving,....its all HIS you are giving back, and by your giving  you are causing the spiritual principal of "sowing and reaping" to invest in GOD's money which always brings a RETURN.

This is why income increases when you give.... this is why your bible tells you that "giving to the poor is LENDING TO THE LORD"..... = Its because, BY GIVING, you are activating what is already GOD's, and everything with God creates MORE., (after its kind)  as that is why God is called "Creator".

Consider.

Edited by Behold
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  1,022
  • Topics Per Day:  0.16
  • Content Count:  39,193
  • Content Per Day:  6.13
  • Reputation:   9,977
  • Days Won:  78
  • Joined:  10/01/2006
  • Status:  Offline

On 5/30/2017 at 10:31 AM, ricky said:

I have a question for those who espouse the "word of faith" movement aka the "Prosperty gospel". What happens when the financial blessings don't come, or the healing you have been believing in isn't there? How does that affect your faith in the sufficiency of Christ? Do you ever question your faith as a whole?

Imo, the WOF schtick is a money making scheme; money making for the ministries that promote it that is.  God doesn't ask us to pay for blessings.  He already owns everything in the universe so what use does He have for money?  Your blessings and healing come from faith in Him not some preacher on t.v. or in a pulpit.  Pray, don't pay, for what you need from the Lord.  Don't question your faith; question those asking for your money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  165
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  3,997
  • Content Per Day:  1.58
  • Reputation:   2,607
  • Days Won:  15
  • Joined:  04/29/2017
  • Status:  Offline

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 8:31 AM, ricky said:

I have a question for those who espouse the "word of faith" movement aka the "Prosperty gospel". What happens when the financial blessings don't come, or the healing you have been believing in isn't there? How does that affect your faith in the sufficiency of Christ? Do you ever question your faith as a whole?

Good example that refutes the "word of faith" movement is the Apostle Paul:

"So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,[a] a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (1 Corinthians 12:7-10).

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  940
  • Topics Per Day:  0.35
  • Content Count:  13,416
  • Content Per Day:  5.02
  • Reputation:   8,958
  • Days Won:  6
  • Joined:  12/04/2016
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/03/1885

On 5/30/2017 at 11:31 AM, ricky said:

I have a question for those who espouse the "word of faith" movement aka the "Prosperty gospel". What happens when the financial blessings don't come, or the healing you have been believing in isn't there? How does that affect your faith in the sufficiency of Christ? Do you ever question your faith as a whole?

Lost a dear sister in the Lord to  a cancer recently. She was a staunch advocate of WOF. Claimed her health restored to her last.

She modified her belief  on monetary wealth somewhat as she got closer to a hard death. But she hung on to her WOF.

 And at the end of life does it matter all that much whether she had thought to receive financial benefit, as well as health benefit, by her faith based demand upon  her savior? She loved her Lord Jesus, thought me to be demonic at times for my Calvinistic take  on the Faith of Jesus, and gave me great tirades of correction. Somehow that may have helped her a little to endure her plight, and to hang on to her faith even as she suffered.

She was a kick to read, and to discuss our Lord with. She had such ferocity of faith. I miss this dear sister in my Lord Jesus. May it be my Lord has put her to  eternal security with him. I have faith in my Lord that it is so; and that the intense differences between the two of us while present here in the flesh have had no effect on our unity in the Spirit for eternity to come. I trust her eternity, as well as my own, is secure in Jesus, made so by His sacrifice and His mercy alone.

Edited by Neighbor
added a preposition.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  940
  • Topics Per Day:  0.35
  • Content Count:  13,416
  • Content Per Day:  5.02
  • Reputation:   8,958
  • Days Won:  6
  • Joined:  12/04/2016
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/03/1885

On 5/31/2017 at 7:44 PM, MorningGlory said:

Imo, the WOF schtick is a money making scheme; money making for the ministries that promote it that is.  God doesn't ask us to pay for blessings.  He already owns everything in the universe so what use does He have for money?  Your blessings and healing come from faith in Him not some preacher on t.v. or in a pulpit.  Pray, don't pay, for what you need from the Lord.  Don't question your faith; question those asking for your money.

But God does have use for my money. Yes my money. It is mine, or my government's. If it were God's I'd have nothing to give at all for I would not take it in the first place. But I do take it. It is a measure and a means of paying  what  is perceived to be my worth to  others for what they may have received in labor or product from me.

In my weakness God allows me  to give to Him as my gift my money. God the Holy spirit leads me when I pray  on such matters. And when I do not pray, but make gift from lessor motivation, such as habit, it is still received and is still used to pay the deserved salaries of the individuals that  work at  the local Body of Christ, to the missionaries the local body  supports, and as worthy  compensation for the teaching I receive there.

As for me, I know that to give of what is mine is a call to my growth in faith, especially so if I give of more than from my excess, giving sacrificially. There are times of knowing, of being moved out of the ordinary ways to give, that each person knows is the calling to do so by the Holy Spirit, that  faith may increase in the doing. Whether one considers that  at the end to be a blessing is up to the individual to assess. I find it  a blessing that never stops, for it confirms my own faith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,130
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

On ‎1‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:44 AM, Behold said:

 

God is letting you use HIS money, and the tithe and the offering and the giving,....its all HIS you are giving back, and by your giving  you are causing the spiritual principal of "sowing and reaping" to invest in GOD's money which always brings a RETURN.

This is why income increases when you give.... this is why your bible tells you that "giving to the poor is LENDING TO THE LORD"..... = Its because, BY GIVING, you are activating what is already GOD's, and everything with God creates MORE., (after its kind)  as that is why God is called "Creator".

Consider.

Hi Behold,

Now what if Stephen went to your `sowing and reaping` `seminar/preaching. How would he feel as the stones came crashing down upon his head?

There is a balance in all of this and it is `We are the Lord`s and His plan is to make us like Christ. Full stop.

regards, Marilyn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  23
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,000
  • Content Per Day:  0.37
  • Reputation:   1,655
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  11/27/2016
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  12/08/1950

Hi Ricky

You know, we need to trust our Lord in everything.  He has given us His Life.  This means that we believe, trust, pray, read His Word, follow His commandments, praise Him, worship Him in everything we turn our hands to.  If things do not turn out the way we want them to, then we re-do the above and on, ad infinitum.  We don't let disappointments get us down, but continue to do all we can, because now, and in Heaven, awaits our Great Redeemer, our Great Treasure, our Pearl of great price, and "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us." Rom. 8:18.  I never question my faith.  In my nearly 40 year journey with the Lord, He has never let me down.  My husband and I both need serious physical healing.  Though I continue to thank Him for it, it is yet to be made manifest.  It doesn't matter to me.  My faith does not depend on what He could do, but what he has done!  Thank Him for all the blessings you do have - the best one being that He has saved you!  I don't mean to say we don't all have trials and tribulations, but that He holds our hands through it all and will be with us, even unto the end of the age.  Blessings, brother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  23
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,000
  • Content Per Day:  0.37
  • Reputation:   1,655
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  11/27/2016
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  12/08/1950

Sorry Ricky, re-read your OP and realised it was directed to those who believe in WOF and prosperity doctrine.  My bad.  Forgive me bro.  Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  48
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  2,491
  • Content Per Day:  0.55
  • Reputation:   1,457
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/23/2011
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  02/02/1971

On June 3, 2017 at 4:03 AM, Neighbor said:

But God does have use for my money. Yes my money. It is mine, or my government's. If it were God's I'd have nothing to give at all for I would not take it in the first place. But I do take it. 

 

You've surprised me here Neighbor!  I've pondered a response, while wondering if I am misunderstanding you.  Take the first sentence.  As God provides, it made me think of a father giving his son an allowance, yet needing part of the allowance back.  God has no need of money.  Yet, you said "use for my money".  That is different, perhaps God does have use of it, as to teach us to help others.  I think its the "mine", "my", "I" statements that gave me pause.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  940
  • Topics Per Day:  0.35
  • Content Count:  13,416
  • Content Per Day:  5.02
  • Reputation:   8,958
  • Days Won:  6
  • Joined:  12/04/2016
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/03/1885

Hi, It was rather deliberate use of the words mine, my etc. for effect. So I am so pleased you are interested enough  in perhaps an errant thought to have asked about it. But i do not think it errant-

What I see, in my own way,  is that;  of course all things are of God. God is sovereign over all things! - all matters all things. He more than allows for things. He is at the top of the top in all matters. So is money His money? Yes, and well no. He shared with us via the record of the question asked of Him about  taxes and whether to pay them or not.  The coinage did not bear ownership by God. It was of Caesar. It bore image of Caesar. Though God is sovereign the coin was Caesar's. It was used as means of exchange  for values received and given as reward for them. The tax  would be paid in Caesar's accepted values or coinage, not the values  or coinage of God.

That as background for my thinking;  I ask myself, what then is God's, or of God, that I might give back? Well all things, and also nothing. I have nothing of value to God, except that He will accept my "all in" so to speak. I cannot give part of me, a tithe of my heart. I must give my all  "all in" or nothing.  For my heart cannot be divided physically nor spiritually.

What I give of coinage as worship of God  bears the seal, in my case, of the US Treasury department.  The gift is symbolic in that it represents  value often gained by my labors or products sold. It is not manna from God. Though the rulers over me that have produced the coinage that  I use as measure of monetary values have been placed over me by God, it is the coinage of a government. What I give is an infinitely minute portion of the value of a government, when I give money. When I give me it is far greater a portion, and hopefully the goal,- totally, all in.

The local body of Christ where I worship has need of US government denomination coinage in order to keep it's facilities, keep them up well, and to compensate fair value for the labors of it's workers, which happens to include me. I get a church paycheck.

 When I give to "my" church  it is a gift given to God, but it is US government coinage, not manna. Has God provided the pathway that has led me to a church paycheck? He has. He has led me to everything. Is the pay I receive mine, or God's? It is mine. I do with it what I will. And it is my will to  be responsible with it.  I use the guidance of the Holy Spirit as to how to use it. Well, sometimes I sure don't.  Usually I come to recognize I get  fair value there too, sadly so. It is my folly to then have to ask God, well if I had sought your will beforehand would you have had me buy this contraption, or that one that I did buy? I learn through my own numerous follies that though  my money is now  mine, I do a whole lot better if I thank God for it, and ask  of Him what is best to do with it.

At church if I give to God, and the church does use it as it will under the Holy Spirit's guidance for it's use there.  Is it God giving back to God? Or is it God allowing me my sacrifical gift given to the Glory of Jesus? Each are blessed and God is praised in this manner. Often finding myself led to support or give US currency  to things the Holy Spirit will have me to support or participate in, the US government currency  is used to represent the value of my contribution. Other times it is my  physical or mental labors. God blesses me recognition of the need, but does He hand me additional sums to give in His name, or does He allow me my gift to be given from me? I say  I am led to give of what is rightly earned  by me, and that I do it by the lead of the Holy Spirit, but that it is  of me, and not God blessing God. It is me thanking God. It is more than obedience, it is gift, it is not tithe, it is gift. It is what I have, a currency, to represent value.

In each case it has been US currency as the measure that I have somehow received to be able to give. It has not been manna  that comes up each day for that day's personal use, a pure gift from God gathered without earning it from my labors.  What is a gift, I give, willingly,  happily, joyfully. It is mine to give.

I acknowledge that a tithe is different, and that if someone believes tithing is for today  they are simply setting a tithe aside as recognition that they have the command to do so. Personally I think by comparison a tithe of a food bill given to a waitress would be a piker's tip. A shame. So even if believing in a tithing could there not be a additional  sense of gift giving in addition to it?  A gift from what is one's own money or something that represents value, more than a return of what is God's in the first place? Something that is not an earning of God's mercy, nor a meritorious action, just an appreciation. A thank you LORD.

 

 

Got to run attending corporate worship cyberly this morning and it is time. Will edit later.

Services are over and I have edited somewhat. 

 

Edited by Neighbor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...