Revelation, Sequenced by the Actual Events

[WholeyGod'schild]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

We know the there is only one people of God and they are seen on earth, Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7. Proved also by the many prophesies saying how the righteous people of God will be gathered and settled into all of the Holy Land.

7Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

The people of God will not be in Israel, Israel will not be a safe place. God has given His spirit to his children has their source and light. God has called the nations unto him. the ones that reject Jesus or go on teaching false doctrine to his children will be the ones left in the time of tribulation. They will turn back to God, or people will turn to him and become saints and will have to suffer through the tribulation for their actions. The ones called the children of God are spoken of and Bolden above. you Received Jesus as your Lord and savoir and your name is written in the lambs book of life. We are called the children of God Bought and paid for by his blood, and he died so we will not have to. He rose again on the third day as a testament to his power and to bring final words to his disciples. for the old has passed away and the new has come, upon his sacrifice.  We rose with him on the third day to a new life, that he gave us.  19Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”  John 2:19

as to your naked claim of God's people being conquer:

16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?  1 Corinthians 3:16

I sure hope you aren't trying to claim Satan conquers over God and his children. If so, you my friend need to evaluate whom you worship and what you understand.

 

 

1 hour ago, Keras said:

 

These 'many people in heaven',  are not the Church that you would like, but dead souls of those killed for their faith. They await the Return of Jesus, when they will be resurrected. Rev 20:4

Revelation 7: 9-14

Praise from the Great Multitude

9After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation to our God,

who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb!”

11And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If you care to notice the listing of the great multitude from the many tongues, and nations. also notice the question of where did they come from. Why would that question be asked if they all had been there the whole time with the ones under the alter mentioned earlier called Martyrs in revelation 6:9?

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Only Israel is protected, THE WHEAT that grows together with the TARES until the end.

Israel isn't protected, will it be destroyed no, but it isn't protected from the wrath.

Matthew 24: 15-22

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened

If you notice the are told to run to the Mountains.

as for the wheat and tares

has to do with the end and gathering of the false teachers, sinners, and those that turned their back on God.  It has nothing to do with Israel.

Matthew 13:24-30

²⁴ Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; ²⁵ but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. ²⁶ But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. ²⁷ So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ ²⁸ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ ²⁹ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. ³⁰ Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

Well RevMan, while you continue to promote false teachings, I will continue to refute you.

You have failed to provide a scripture that actually says God will take His people to heaven. 

No I refuse to play your silly game, I gave you the scriptures, and you may or may not agree with those scriptures I gave you, but then you tell an untruth and say I didn't give you the scriptures. Keep pretending, I do not chew my cabbage twice. 

5 hours ago, Keras said:

We know the there is only one people of God and they are seen on earth, Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7. Proved also by the many prophesies saying how the righteous people of God will be gathered and settled into all of the Holy Land. They are there when the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt comes to them and makes a 7 year peace treaty.  Daniel 11:32-33 says that half of them will hold firm to the Covenant, but half will renounce it. Then Revelation 12:6-17 tells what happens the each half - the faithful ones to a place of safety, the unfaithful, remain to experience the Great Trib. Also noted in Zechariah 14:1-2.

You really never do in depth big picture studies do you? You take one scripture here or here, and because you don't realize you have to view the bible as a Mosaic (here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept). Therefore the verses you cite are usually not  cited in context.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

{{ OK, We know the Saints here and usually in Revelation refer to Israel, he conquers Jerusalem, kills all Jews who did not flee unto the Wilderness, unless they worship him as God. So this can happen, and does happen, while the Church is in Heaven. LET ME REMIND YOU, you are in the vast minority as per your view on the Rapture not being pre Tribulation, don't you think there might be a reason for that? I find people with these odd kind of perceptions, especially many on these Message boards, don't go to Church, they actually tell me you don't need to go to Church, we have the REAL UNDERSTANDING of God, the Church is wrong, etc. etc., and you would be surprised, they don't seem to enjoy fellowship with their brethren. }}

Rev. 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

{{ Again, this is Israel, not the Church which is in Heaven. The Holy Spirits voice is clear, mans voice is confusing, because many men listen to Satan, even if by accident, Peter did it in the Garden of Gethsemane, thus Jesus had to rebuke him with "Get thee behind me Satan!!" We should quit listening to men's understandings and read the bible and ask God for guidance. I didn't care one way or the other for 30 years whether the Rapture was pre/mid/post. Then I saw how the three different sects were dividing Christendom on many fronts, certain understandings were way off by someone, it the others had t be deceived by God, and that's not good for the Church so I endeavored to find the truth by reading the bile and seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And the Pre tribulation ascertain won the day by far, even though the mid/post was very entertaining to start with, until I understand that nearly every passage that is pro post tribulation has been twisted. For instance, the IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation verse in Matthew is a verse that falls to pieces, as per a post trib fact, when you place logic with the scripture. The Church comes back with Jesus in Revelation chapter 19 WHEN? IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION....Then we look at verse 31 and we see that the ELITE are gathered from the Four Corners of HEAVEN. The post trib verses fall apart one by one.}}

Rev. 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (ISRAEL) which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth(Angry he couldn't get at Israel whom God PROTECTS) with the woman(ISRAEL), and went to make war with the REMNANT (Small part that's left) of her seed (JESUS is the SEED Galatians 3:16) , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Church of the SEED, Jesus Christ so the REMNANT = the SMALL PART that's left of the Church of Jesus Christ).

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of ONE, And to THY SEED, which is CHRIST. { THE SEED IS JESUS CHRIST, the Remnant of the SEED is who? The Small part of the Church that is left, of course. The Woman is Israel, she is protected by God, the REMNANT is not, because the Church was Raptured, and the 5 Foolish Virgins were shut out. They have to come to Christ fully, and then they will have to endure, all because they were not READY when the Bridegroom called them to the Wedding !!  (Rev. 19) The Saints = Israel the Remnant = the Church that is left. }

6 hours ago, Keras said:

I asked you to read Revelation 19:2.  It says:......  they praised God for taking vengeance for their blood.    So we know that multitude are the dead martyrs, whose souls are kept under the Altar in heaven and they are allowed to call out at times. Rev 6:9-11

These 'many people in heaven',  are not the Church that you would like, but dead souls of those killed for their faith. They await the Return of Jesus, when they will be resurrected. Rev 20:4

I have it on memory speed dial, and I explained it to you, DEAD SOULS are not in Heaven, they SLEEP just as the bible says until we are Raptured. The Dead in Christ and those of us who are Alive and Remain are all raptured at the same time and MEET IN THE AIR, to be with Jesus forever as we see below. 

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are ASLEEP. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So they aren't the Church even though they MARRY THE LAMB, all because you are POST TRIB....I get it, this is what I am speaking on when I say men's traditions seem to lead many people instead of us taking the lead via the Holy Spirit. IT CAN'T BE THE CHURCH !!! Because that's not what we believe !!! Even though its the Marriage of the Lamb, and the SAINTS are there Marrying the Lamb. The people judged in Rev. 20:4 are the REMNANT that wee Beheaded and Israel the WHEAT who are Harvested with the TARES. 

 

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Revelation 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

 

This is just weird. Why would anyone not understand why they are Rejoicing? They think their Problems are over, the Demonic Spirit Apollyon has just killed the Two-witnesses, the 3rd Woe is YET TO COME, they undoubtedly think they have victory and are rejoicing, but they will soon understand that they were wrong, they 3rd WOE or the Seven Vials of God will be upon them soon. 

If you were in the ring with Muhammad Ali, and he was beating to to a pulp, then he couldn't carry on you would rejoice, BUT WAIT, Ali has decided his broken arm is OK, he is coming back at you as the bell rings, SUDDENLY, your rejoicing will have been for nought, because you will be getting pummeled shortly. Honestly, anyone that would bring up this scripture, not in the contextual conversation on the subject, wreaks of desperation. You would have been better of just admitting the facts I submitted are true, no one will be marrying and partying during the Tribulation, during the VIALS OF GOD....Which come after the Two-Witnesses DEATH, I can even defeat your parlor trick. The VIALS are happening just before/during Jesus' return, do you think they will be MARRYING/PARTYING during the Seven Vials of Gods Wrath? I think I my point wins the day.

5 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Revelation 19  After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!”

And your point is? The Harlot is destroyed in Revelation chapter 6. The Church is in Heaven for the Full Seven Years !! 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

Israel isn't protected, will it be destroyed no, but it isn't protected from the wrath.

If they do not Flee to the Wilderness they will not be protected, the Jewish peoples who do will be protected. That is just a known fact, see Rev. 12, the Woman is Israel. The whole chapter is about Israel being protected by God for 1260 Days, I suggest you research it a little deeper. 

4 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

as for the wheat and tares

has to do with the end and gathering of the false teachers, sinners, and those that turned their back on God.  It has nothing to do with Israel.

Israel/Lost Sheep of Israel was Jesus' ministry. The WHEAT can only be Israel, the Church is in heaven, the Remnant/Beheaded are murdered/Martyrs, thus the WHEAT is Israel and the TARES are the Wicked.

[wingnut-]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

This is just weird. Why would anyone not understand why they are Rejoicing?

 

You claimed this...

 

"I do see the Rapture in Matthew 24:34-42, you don't think as in the days of Noah means during the Tribulation/Wrath of God do you? They will be marrying, eating, drinking and having a gay ole time.....That is not the Tribulation as I see it, they will be doing no such thing, they will be trying to hide their faces from the Wrath of God."

 

The scripture I posted exposes that this is simply not true.  What is weird is that you would insult me for pointing out this flaw in how you see things.  They are not hiding their faces, they are making merry and exchanging gifts even at this late stage.

 

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And your point is? The Harlot is destroyed in Revelation chapter 6.

 

My point is that you are wrong again.  There is not one mention of the harlot in Revelation 6, not one, not even a hint of one.  However in Revelation 19 we see that her judgement has come as clearly announced in heaven at the outset of the chapter.  A chapter that you yourself said, and I quote, "Rev. 19 is factual"

Indeed it is factual, so why not accept what it says?

God bless

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, wingnut- said:

You claimed this...

 

This is just weird. Why would anyone not understand why they are Rejoicing? They think their Problems are over, the Demonic Spirit Apollyon has just killed the Two-witnesses, the 3rd Woe is YET TO COME, they undoubtedly think they have victory and are rejoicing, but they will soon understand that they were wrong, they 3rd WOE or the Seven Vials of God will be upon them soon. 

I'll copy and paste the same answer which destroys your reply.

9 hours ago, wingnut- said:

The scripture I posted exposes that this is simply not true.  What is weird is that you would insult me for pointing out this flaw in how you see things.  They are not hiding their faces, they are making merry and exchanging gifts even at this late stage.

 

The Scripture you posted is nonsensical drivel. They rejoiced for 3 1/2 days out of 3 1/2 years because they thought their problems were over, the Two-witnesses who the bible stated had the power to RAIN DOWN PLAGUES and to STOP THE RAIN, were dead. This just proves to me you missed the reasoning gene somewhere down the line. 

 

9 hours ago, wingnut- said:

My point is that you are wrong again.  There is not one mention of the harlot in Revelation 6, not one, not even a hint of one.  However in Revelation 19 we see that her judgement has come as clearly announced in heaven at the outset of the chapter.  A chapter that you yourself said, and I quote, "Rev. 19 is factual"

Indeed it is factual, so why not accept what it says?

God bless

Revelation 19 covers 7 Full years............Revelation 17 doesn't even exist in real time. I can't help you comprehend these things. Revelation 16 ENDS IT.....So why would you think that Rev. 17 is a REAL TIME EVENT? Because you just don't understand Revelation it seems. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, eileenhat said:

quote: "Some have misinterpreted verse 9 to mean the holy city is the bride of Christ, but that cannot be because Christ died for His people, not for a city. "

 

That wasnt the point I was making, the Bride is IN HEAVEN/New Jerusalem, and comes down living in the City, thus because the Bride is IN New Jerusalem, the City itself is called the Bride. Just like Babylon is called the Harlot. Its a Metaphor.

God Bless

Edited June 7, 2017 by Revelation Man

[HAZARD]

I nave posted this several times on different threads. There is a simple key to the book of Revelation that makes the whole book simple to understand by all alike. This key is found in Revelation 1:19 and 4:1.

The book is in three clearly defined divisions:

First, "the things which thou hast seen," that is the visions of Christ, as in Rev. 1.

Second, "the things which are," that is, the things concerning the churches, as in Rev. 2-3.

Third. "the things which shall be hereafter," that is, after the churches, as in Rev. 4-22.

To prove that everything of Revelation, from the fourth chapter on, must be after the churches, in Rev. 4:1 after he had written the vision of Christ in chapter one and the things concerning the churches in chapters two and three, John was caught up to Heaven and was told that he was to see the things which must be hereafter, that is, after the churches. If the things of Rev. 4:1 through the rest of the book must be after the churches, then they must be fulfilled after the churches and not during the time of the churches. This is proof that the rapture of the church must take place before the fulfilment of everything in Rev. 4-22. If we will take literally and consecutively the events of these chapters and believe that they will happen after the rapture of the church, nothing in the book will be hard to understand.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

I nave posted this several times on different threads. There is a simple key to the book of Revelation that makes the whole book simple to understand by all alike. This key is found in Revelation 1:19 and 4:1.

The book is in three clearly defined divisions:

First, "the things which thou hast seen," that is the visions of Christ, as in Rev. 1.

Second, "the things which are," that is, the things concerning the churches, as in Rev. 2-3.

Third. "the things which shall be hereafter," that is, after the churches, as in Rev. 4-22.

To prove that everything of Revelation, from the fourth chapter on, must be after the churches, in Rev. 4:1 after he had written the vision of Christ in chapter one and the things concerning the churches in chapters two and three, John was caught up to Heaven and was told that he was to see the things which must be hereafter, that is, after the churches. If the things of Rev. 4:1 through the rest of the book must be after the churches, then they must be fulfilled after the churches and not during the time of the churches. This is proof that the rapture of the church must take place before the fulfilment of everything in Rev. 4-22. If we will take literally and consecutively the events of these chapters and believe that they will happen after the rapture of the church, nothing in the book will be hard to understand.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. My endeavor here is/was to place the events in their actual time frames. For instance after Rev. 16, Jesus has defeated the Anti-Christ at Armageddon via the Seventh Vial. So where does Rev. 17 and 18 fit in? I believe Rev. 17, the Harlot being judged, is all the False Religions being Judged by God, and destroyed by the Anti-Christ/his Kings. So when would that happen? In Rev. 6 when the Abomination of Desolation happens, its consistent with the Anti-Christ claiming to be God in the Temple of God at the midway point. So he destroys all religions at the exact same time, that is only logical. Any Military leader knows you make all the moves at the same time, you don't come against Israels Temple and then allow others the time to understand whats going on and regroup, you hit them all at once, Boom. 

Then Revelation 18 is Babylon (imho, Governance/the Statue of Daniel 2) being destroyed. The Seals, Trumpets and Vials are that destruction, and Rev. 16:19 is the Seventh and final Vial, where God explicitly says he is destroying Babylon. So all the Judgments are Babylons destruction, via Rev. 6,8,9,14,15 and 16, so Rev. 18 is just those chapters described in vivid detail. 

Since the First Seal brings forth the Anti-Christ, Rev. 13 has to be happening during Rev. chapter 6. 

Rev. 14, Rev.16 and Rev. 18 is the exact same EVENT.....Hence Babylon Falls in all three chapters. Rev. 14 the End Time Harvest, all the Wicked Tares are destroyed. Rev. 16, is the Battle at Armageddon. WHO IS HARVESTED? The Wicked are destroyed to their graves to face judgment in 1000 years. Rev. 18 is all the events of the Seals, Trumpets and Vials, thus it also ENDS at the exact same time as Rev. 16:19, at the FINAL VIAL, this is the description of Babylons Destruction Chapter.

[Keras]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No I refuse to play your silly game, I gave you the scriptures, and you may or may not agree with those scriptures I gave you, but then you tell an untruth and say I didn't give you the scriptures

I don't agree with any of the so called pre-trib rapture scriptures. None of them say that God will take His people to heaven.  The whole rapture theory is made up from assumptions and inferences, never a clear scripture. It is simply a false teaching, inspired by the father of lies; Satan. 

The Bible does tell what God has planned for His people; for them to be His witnesses and the Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I have it on memory speed dial, and I explained it to you, DEAD SOULS are not in Heaven, they SLEEP just as the bible says until we are Raptured. The Dead in Christ and those of us who are Alive and Remain are all raptured at the same time and MEET IN THE AIR, to be with Jesus forever as we see below. 

The dead souls kept under the Altar in heaven are the souls of the martyrs. Revelation 6:9-11  We see there, that they are allowed to cry out and it is obviously them in Revelation 19:1-3 . It is only your faulty belief that thinks they are all the Church.