TrevorL Posted June 9, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Keras said: This prophecy is about the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15 This refers to the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. We are plainly told to seek shelter on that one [literal] Day. More details on what the Lord has told us He will do at; logostelos.info Greetings again Keras, I believe that Isaiah 26:19 applies to the resurrection of Isaiah and the faithful before the Millennium. I believe that the "day" is a period of time rather than a literal day, again before the millennium. I have had a glance at your website and cannot endorse much of what you claim there and other detail that you mention in this thread. Kind regards Trevor Edited June 9, 2017 by TrevorL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted June 9, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted June 9, 2017 3 hours ago, TrevorL said: I believe that Isaiah 26:19 applies to the resurrection of Isaiah and the faithful before the Millennium. I believe that the "day" is a period of time rather than a literal day, again before the millennium. I have had a glance at your website and cannot endorse much of what you claim there and other detail that you mention in this thread. Can you please provide scriptural support for this idea? When, exactly; is anyone resurrected before Jesus Returns? Re my website: As there are very few preachers and teachers who even mention Bible prophecy, there is a great lack of understanding among Christians about what God has planned for His people in these end times. Far too many just have the 'pan belief'; hoping that things will pan out for the best. This is a poor attitude and leaves people 'in the dark'. 1 Thess 5:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Keras said: Jeremiah 30:7-8 plainly speaks of a literal Day. That Day is prophesied to happen at the Sixth Seal and the spiritual children of the Patriarchs, every true Christian, Romans 9:8, + will come through it safely. REBible translation. The words: and he shall be saved out of it. KJV, are not in the original Hebrew. The Great tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls happens after the time gap of the Seventh Seal. It will last for 1260 days. You are not interpreting scripture as I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted June 9, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: You are not interpreting scripture as I am. We both read the same [or similar] Bibles. The main problem arises because people have been fooled with false teaching. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says this was going to happen. Be very sure that what you believe is fully supported by scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 10, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Share Posted June 10, 2017 13 hours ago, Keras said: Can you please provide scriptural support for this idea? When, exactly; is anyone resurrected before Jesus Returns? Re my website: As there are very few preachers and teachers who even mention Bible prophecy, there is a great lack of understanding among Christians about what God has planned for His people in these end times. Far too many just have the 'pan belief'; hoping that things will pan out for the best. This is a poor attitude and leaves people 'in the dark'. 1 Thess 5:4 Greetings again Keras, I believe that Jesus returns firstly to his household, to raise the faithful dead and then unite them with the faithful living. This appears to be the sequence suggested in Isaiah 26:19-20. He then judges the nations verse 21. In your previous reply you suggested that Isaiah 26:19 applies to the end of the millennium, but do you believe that Isaiah and the faithful dead up until his time have to wait to the end of the millennium before they are resurrected? There are many Scriptures that could be quoted to suggest that Christ comes to judge his household first and then judges and subjugates the nations. A few samples: Daniel 12:1-2 (KJV): 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. This is similar to Isaiah 26:19-21 as it depicts the resurrection and the time of trouble, and the time of trouble is really drawn from the events of Daniel 11:40-45, a period much greater than one day as you seem to claim. 1 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (living) and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. Again we have the same elements as Isaiah 26:19-21. Jesus is to return to judge the living and the dead, and hence he must first raise the dead. Amongst those raised and rewarded will be the Apostle Paul, as he clearly states. He will also at this time set up his kingdom on the earth, and this will involve judging and subjecting the nations with the outcome as depicted in Isaiah 2:1-4. I appreciate the fact that you attempt to teach prophecy by means of your website. But as I stated, both in this thread and in our discussion on the thread “Jerusalem Day and the 2300 Days of Daniel 8”, I have a different understanding of these things. Without explaining how I understand the seals, trumpets, bowls and the 1260 days, perhaps the following is a clear indication of some of our differences. 21 hours ago, Keras said: The Great tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls happens after the time gap of the Seventh Seal. It will last for 1260 days. Kind regards Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted June 10, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Trevor, Who is Jesus' household now? The Jews or Christians? Remember there is only one people of God: John 10:16, 1 Cor 1:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Romans 2:11, + Yes, I do believe that all the dead must wait until the Great White Throne Judgement, because that is what scripture says. Rev 20:11-15 Only the Martyrs killed during the Great Tribulation come to life again..... Rev 20:4 This resurrection does not confer immortality, as that doesn't happen until the Book of Life is opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 10, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Greetings again Keras, 54 minutes ago, Keras said: Trevor, Who is Jesus' household now? The Jews or Christians? Remember there is only one people of God: John 10:16, 1 Cor 1:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Romans 2:11, + The household is made up of the faithful past and present, drawn from Jews and Gentiles, such as Isaiah and Paul both Jews, the one looking forward to Jesus, the other directly confronted by Jesus. Many Gentile believers are also mentioned in the NT. Yes there is only one household of God. 54 minutes ago, Keras said: Yes, I do believe that all the dead must wait until the Great White Throne Judgement, because that is what scripture says. Rev 20:11-15 Only the Martyrs killed during the Great Tribulation come to life again..... Rev 20:4 This resurrection does not confer immortality, as that doesn't happen until the Book of Life is opened. No, I do not accept your use of Revelation 20:4-5 in an absolute sense. Will Paul, 2 Timothy 4:8, and the Apostles be raised at the beginning of the 1000 years, or as you seem to imply, at the end of the 1000 years? Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Also Daniel 12:2, who are the “many” and when is this? Is Daniel being instructed that he will be amongst this many, and again is this at the end of the 1000 years? Daniel 12:13 (KJV): But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. Kind regards Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted June 10, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted June 10, 2017 2 hours ago, TrevorL said: The household is made up of the faithful past and present, drawn from Jews and Gentiles, such as Isaiah and Paul both Jews, the one looking forward to Jesus, the other directly confronted by Jesus. Many Gentile believers are also mentioned in the NT. Yes there is only one household of God. Despite you saying 'there is only one Household of God, you still insist on a separation, a different salvation for Jews and Christians. I have to assume you are a pre-trib rapture to heaven for the Church and the Jews remain for judgement. This is an entirely false teaching that isn't God's plan for His people at all. 2 hours ago, TrevorL said: No, I do not accept your use of Revelation 20:4-5 in an absolute sense. Will Paul, 2 Timothy 4:8, and the Apostles be raised at the beginning of the 1000 years, or as you seem to imply, at the end of the 1000 years? Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. I think that the 12 disciples, plus Paul and 11 major OT prophets are the 24 Elders described in Rev 4:4 and seen again in Rev 20:4. But the rest of the dead, great and small, righteous and evil; including Daniel, await the GWT judgement; at the end of days. An indisputable Biblical statement. Of course this truth destroys the rapture theory, as a removal to heaven necessitates a change to spiritual bodies. But we WILL live in heaven: when God comes to live with mankind for Eternity. Rev 21:1-7 Only then will those accounted worthy be given water from the spring of Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 10, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keras said: Despite you saying 'there is only one Household of God, you still insist on a separation, a different salvation for Jews and Christians. I have to assume you are a pre-trib rapture to heaven for the Church and the Jews remain for judgement. This is an entirely false teaching that isn't God's plan for His people at all. I think that the 12 disciples, plus Paul and 11 major OT prophets are the 24 Elders described in Rev 4:4 and seen again in Rev 20:4. But the rest of the dead, great and small, righteous and evil; including Daniel, await the GWT judgement; at the end of days. An indisputable Biblical statement. Of course this truth destroys the rapture theory, as a removal to heaven necessitates a change to spiritual bodies. But we WILL live in heaven: when God comes to live with mankind for Eternity. Rev 21:1-7 Only then will those accounted worthy be given water from the spring of Life. Greetings again Keras, So you would also consign Luke and Timothy to not being in the 1000 years reign of Christ, as well as Daniel and Isaiah and possibly Abraham who rejoiced to see Christ's day. Talk about a separation of the faithful! I am not sure how you suggest that I believe in a different salvation for Jews and Gentiles. Isaiah's prophecy for example is full of references to the Messiah, and his Book is often called the 5th Gospel. Handel's Oratorio is witness to that. There is only one method of salvation, by faith in Christ, the things of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5,12. I do not believe in the rapture. We differ on many other things. Kind regards Trevor Edited June 10, 2017 by TrevorL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted June 10, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted June 10, 2017 9 hours ago, TrevorL said: So you would also consign Luke and Timothy to not being in the 1000 years reign of Christ, as well as Daniel and Isaiah and possibly Abraham who rejoiced to see Christ's day. Talk about a separation of the faithful! I am not sure how you suggest that I believe in a different salvation for Jews and Gentiles. Isaiah's prophecy for example is full of references to the Messiah, and his Book is often called the 5th Gospel. Handel's Oratorio is witness to that. There is only one method of salvation, by faith in Christ, the things of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5,12. I do not believe in the rapture. We differ on many other things. It just shows that is a bad idea to guess things about the end times! Who the 24 Elders are, we simply aren't told. Leave it at that. Glad you believe in only one way of salvation; Jesus. But you did say 2 posts ago, that the Jews who still look forward to their Messiah, expect a different kind of salvation. This contradicts Romans 9:27, Isaiah 22:14, Amos 2:4-5, + Why do we differ on what God has planned for Hs people in the last days? It is all comprehensively prophesied in our Bibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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