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Psalm 27:5


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19 hours ago, inchrist said:

Because I hate to break it to you as these guys standing on the sea of glass dont seem to be listening to God to go hide in their mansions.

15 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. And I saw what looked like a sea of glassglowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name. They held harpsgiven them by God and sang the song of God’s servant Moses and of the Lamb:

“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
    Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
    King of the nations.[a]
Who will not fear you, Lord,
    and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
    and worship before you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed.”[b]

After this I looked, and I saw in heaven the temple—that is, the tabernacle of the covenant law—and it was opened. Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven plagues.

What do you think the Holy Spirit meant by " as it were?"

 

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

 

By the way, where are these events happening in this verse?

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
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On 6/18/2017 at 3:24 AM, inchrist said:

Nope, neither Paul or John talk about God hidding you away.

Your notion, of hidden away comes from psalm 27, which in context has nothing to do with a rapture at all.

 

It probably also comes from here:

Isa 26 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Look, if you guys don't want to escape what is coming, go ahead and stay behind. I won't care at all. But will be escaping and will be hiding (from God's wrath on earth) in heaven.  In fact, when Jesus begins to escort His bride up towards Heaven, if you wish to shout out, "I thought we were going back down!" Just feel free to shout it out. Perhaps He will allow you to go back down.

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5 hours ago, inchrist said:

Certainly not at the 6th seal, where you claim the wrath begins

Sorry, my friend, but I don't claim that. In fact, John, backed by the Holy Spirit claims this.

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5 hours ago, inchrist said:

We wont be escaping anything if we treats God words as metaphors

Sorry, must have caught something from wingnut.

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5 hours ago, inchrist said:

By such logic then matthew 24:16 must also be a metaphor.

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

The danger of your theory is that both Isaiah's and Jesus' direction on how to endure the tribuluation is to be ignored.

How would that have turned out in Exo 12

13The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. 

Dont worry guys, God is just using one of his metaphors again.

Actually, there are much fewer metaphors than some here think.

You are mistaken on your entire idea of "enduring" the days of GT Jesus spoke of. You are ignoring what HE SAID about this time: that the saints WILL BE overcome. In truth, this is the only verse anyone left behind any saint can have true bible faith in, for it is for this season of time. (I am speaking of Gentiles not living in Israel.) Go back and read what Jesus said: the fleeing will be for those living in Judea - and even they will barely have time.

The blood on the doorposts certainly worked back then. Don't count on it working during the days of GT. Saints will be overcome. That is His Word on this issue.  And for sure, "overcome" is not a metaphor.

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8 hours ago, inchrist said:

No john didnt....your sinners did....i have an angel that states otherwise.

For the readers sake, let's look:

On 6/19/2017 at 3:03 PM, inchrist said:

Certainly not at the 6th seal, where you claim the wrath begins

Sorry, my friend, but I don't claim that. In fact, John, backed by the Holy Spirit claims this.

 

12And I beheld, when He had opened the sixth seal and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood;

13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every slave {bondman}, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains, 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

17For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Like I said, John, through the Holy Spirit tells us the day of His wrath begins. Where? At the 6th seal.

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9 hours ago, inchrist said:

Youve presented a warped scriptual interpretation of psalm 27, then somehow exclude the church of Philadelphia from its "historic context" as opposed to the other 6, then apply some logic that we must take Gods instructions in Isaiah as metaphorical with its inconsistencies of Jesus instructions in Matthew to be literal, spiralled in some warped materialistic idea of mansions. I look at the ripples of ones false theories that affacts scripture....your ripples are waves.

What Jesus is preparing for you in his kingdom is ranking not mansions.

Maybe God has not built a mansion for you. I know he has for others, for some have been allowed to SEE their own mansion. Others have been allowed to see other people's mansions. Scripture tells us He went to heaven to build houses, homes or abodes for us. However, when God builds something, it will be very special indeed. I fully expect that one diamond doorknob will be large enough were it on earth it could buy much of the state of Texas!

It is simply not my fault that you don't believe simple scriptures.

Now, abut Psalms 27: I only said "It is a perfect picture of the pretrib rapture." Of course if you deny a pretrib rapture, Ps. 27 won't appear to you as a perfect picture of the rapture.

Now for the churches:

God had a message that shows up for EVERY church:  " 29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (or something very close to this)

God had another message that shows up for some churches:  " To him that overcometh.." Then for each church where this is found, they get something for being an overcomer. For example, to the Laodiceans John wrote, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Here are all of them:

1…will I give to eat of the tree of life

2…shall not be hurt of the second death

3…will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone

4…and keepeth my works unto the end—will I give power over the nations…and I will give him the morning star

5…shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life

6…will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God

7…will I grant to sit with me in my throne

Does this mean that those from the other churches WON'T get to sit on God's throne? Not at all, I think any believer that overcomes will get everything on this list.

 

However, each church had something specific written to them, for they were all different.

Next, you have accused me of taking the Philidaelphia out of its historical context:

7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth. 8I know thy works; behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it; for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out; and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God; and I will write upon him My new name.

Let's examine this: 11Behold, I come quickly;

Did He come in their lifetime? No. Has He come since? No! His coming is still future to us today. Therefore THIS phrase has a future application, does it not? Why then criticize me for taking the phrase just before this as a future application?

"and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God"

Did the Holy City come down in their age? You know it did not. It is yet future to us today and will not take place until after the millennial reign of Christ. Why then criticize me for taking another part of this passage as future?

If this "hour of temptation" is not future to us today, they by all means show us what John meant.

David Guzik Commentary:

i. Most Bible scholars see this hour of trial as a prophetic reference to the Messianic woes, the Great Tribulation, which precede Jesus' earthly kingdom. Jesus promises to keep these Christians from that hour of trial.

d. To test those who dwell on the earth: The test is directed against those who dwell on the earth. This phrase is used nine times in the Book of Revelation, and it speaks of those who are not saved in Jesus. Revelation 17:8 makes the term synonymous with the lost: And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. This test is for unbelievers, not Christians.

i. Those who dwell on the earth "refers not to believers but to unbelievers who are objects of God's wrath" throughout Revelation. (Johnson)

Therefore I don't think your criticism was justified.

Whose view then is really warped? I have scripture solidly on my side.

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6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Therefore I don't think your criticism was justified.

Whose view then is really warped? I have scripture solidly on my side.

It is a bad mistake to quote unverified and biased opinions from anyone, especially commentators who usually have a doctrine to espouse.

Scripture is solidly for EVERYONE to be tested. There is no escape for anyone. Why should there be? Christians thru the age and still today are being tested unto death. What makes this generation exempt?  No, there is plenty of scripture proving we will be tested, you prefer to ignore them, to your discredit.  1 Peter 4:12, Revelation 13:9-10, Romans 8:18, +

 

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13 hours ago, inchrist said:
Quote

 

I know he has for others, for some have been allowed to SEE their own mansion.

No where in scripture has anyone seen their "mansions"

No where in Revelation do you see anyone in their splended trillon dollar mansion.

Relying on hearsy that is outside of scripture....is NOT scripture.

No, it is not scripture. I never said it was. But when personal testimony (such as Acts records Paul saying) lines up with scripture, why not believe it? Could Paul find Old Testament scripture such as being knocked of his horse and a light so bright he was blinded? I think not. But he told his story anyway. Jesus went to build us mansions. If you don't believe that, my guess is, He will not build you one. Many people have seen these mansions. I believe they exist, but because of scripture and because of these personal testimonies.

 

13 hours ago, inchrist said:
Quote

 

Scripture tells us He went to heaven to build houses, homes or abodes for us. 

No it doesnt.

Please stick to context, to claim that John 14:2 is referring to going to heaven live in mansions with diamond door knobs to remove this verse from its context.

Yes, it does. If you can't see it, that is on you, not the rest of the Body of Christ. It is very clearly stated that Jesus went back to heaven to build abodes, or houses for us. It is not a difficult scripture to understand, unless one has thick preconceived glasses on.

 

13 hours ago, inchrist said:

In John 14:3,  Christ states,  I will come again, and receive you unto myself.

In context with  John 14:18-23, shows that the coming referred to here is the coming of the Father and Christ to make Their abode in the believers.

Our abode in God (John 14:2) and Gods abode in believers. (John 14:23)

This is not really the intent of the Author: The context was Jesus telling the disciples that He was going to die. They were saddened by this. Someone's heading is "Jesus comforts His disciples."

14:1 “Do not let your heart be troubled (afraid, cowardly). Believe [confidently] in God and trust in Him, [have faith, hold on to it, rely on it, keep going and] believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places. If it were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and I will take you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also.

He, Jesus is going back to heaven. That too is context. He is going back to His Father. His father's house has many dwelling places. That too is context: houses, abodes, dwelling places, rooms, mansions. These are words provided by translators. Young's literal uses "mansions." All of the first translations into English use these same words. Why then do you find it so hard to believe? You expect the readers to believe you and ignore all the translators?

After Jesus tells about the many dwelling places there, then He said that He is going to prepare MORE place for them - the disciples. So He is talking about HIM being in HIS FATHER's house. that too is context. Finally, after this He tells them that if He goes, He will return and take them unto Himself - that where He is (I AM) there you may be. Since the entire context has been about His Father's house, that is where they are expecting Him to take them.

Millions of believers read it this way.

David Guzik Commentary:

d. Many mansions: In light of the ancient Greek, "mansions" is better translated "dwelling places." The noun mone (connected to the verb meno, "stay" or "remain") means "a place to stay." But in light of God's character, it is better to translate it mansions. Whatever dwelling place God has for us in heaven, it will be as glorious as a mansion.

e. To receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also: The entire focus of heaven is being reunited with Jesus. Heaven is heaven not because of streets of gold, or pearly gates, or even the presence of angels. Heaven is heaven because Jesus is there.

i. Take comfort; even as He prepares a place for us, He prepares us for that place.

Another verse where the similar and root word is used:

Mat 10:11

And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide G3306 till ye go thence.

John is talking about a place to stay. Therefore a house or an abode is a good idea of the meaning. However, when GOD builds the house, what should we expect? A shack? A tiny cabin? I think not. Not a God that uses Gold for walkways.

13 hours ago, inchrist said:

No what scripture teaches, is we Christians are the many places of abode (mansions) of the one House. We are the members of the Body of Christ.

Christ is the cornerstone and we are the living stones.

Except that is really not the subject or contest of this scripture.

 

13 hours ago, inchrist said:

Thats because imaginations are not scriptual....stick to context.

The CONTEXT of John 14 is heaven. I am truly sorry if you don't see that. But then, if you wish to remain behind on earth, I really believe God will allow that. He does not go against our will.

 

13 hours ago, inchrist said:

Thats because you claimed the context is historical...yet you cant present any evidence that the phrase 10 days of tribulation for Smyrna was historical. Hence my criticism, you make up rules for the other churches to be historic with no factual evidence and make another rule for Philadelphia.

My friend, we HAVE TO go by the text. There was no "coming" back then. The "hour of trial" is far more likely to be the days of great tribulation in our future than anything in their immediate future. The New Jerusalem was certainly not to be seen back then. Again, we must follow both the words and the context. The context was around 95 AD but this is a book of prophecy. Do you doubt that it was around 95 AD when John sent these words to the 7 churches? Would not that be the context?

 

14 hours ago, inchrist said:
Quote

 Therefore I don't think your criticism was justified.

Yes it is, relying on fleets of imaginations, extra biblical hearsy and ripping scripture out of context is not how one handles scripture.

CLEARLY these words about His coming and the New Jerusalem are words of prophecy. So then are the words about the "hour of trial." I am not "making up rules." I am just understanding the intent of the author by taking His words at face value.

I stand by what I said: the only reason you criticize is simply your belief system is far off from main stream so you think what I write is imagination. The pretrib rapture is not imagination. It is based solidly on scripture.

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14 hours ago, inchrist said:

You can balloon the font as much as you want, in all different colors if you wish....

These are not Johns or the Holys spirits words, he is recording what the sinners are stating:

17For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

As opposed to the 24 elders that actaully states when Gods wrath begins.

 The nations were angry,
    and your wrath has come.

Testimonial evidence of 24 elders out ranks your sinners in credibility.

You are just showing us you know less about the Old Testament scriptures on the Day of the Lord than these people that make the statement. For example, have you ever read Isaiah 2? It is VERY clear that what happens at the 6th seal is fulfilling Isaiah 2, and THEY KNEW IT! Apparently you don't.

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