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The C0uncil 0f Trent


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44 minutes ago, inchrist said:

And what you said and what I said and what RC church said is no diffirent

In other words, the law, whether old or new, cannot save us apart from the grace of Christ. In fact, St. Paul goes beyond declaring the keeping of the law alone cannot save us. He even says, in I Cor. 13:3:

If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/are-good-works-necessary-for-salvation

Paul was an apostle and not a saint.  You are "adding to" again.

1Paul, an apostle — sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead Galatians1:1

Which btw truth is love. You just cant deal with it so you call it something other than love as a "tag along strawman.  "

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them " (Rom. 16:17)

"Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith " (Titus 1: 13).

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them " (Eph. 5:11).

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (I John 4: 1). All doctrine and teachers are to be tried according to the Word of God. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isa. 8:20). ..........ie: your RC links.... I wont be gazing upon traditions of men. RC INFUSED grace  is disguised as scripture .   You defend the catholic faith and I defend the faith.  Nothing new under the sun....its been going on for centuries.

I find it quite sad that you claim to know the truth but yet you stay in a religion that is contrary to the truth in so many ways.  The roof you sit under is corrupt and antichrist.

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them " (Eph. 5:11). :mellow:

I dont feel it necessary to respond to you any longer. It is not profitable.

 

 

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On 6/7/2017 at 11:35 AM, Judas Machabeus said:

a church that isn't a member of that church right

we are talking Christian churches----

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They've been purified by the fires of purgatory.

https://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html
Question: "What does the Bible say about Purgatory?"

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, sliver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

 

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Guest Judas Machabeus
On 2017-06-11 at 3:34 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Judas.

Yes, but let's get one thing straight right away. Not everyone in that list had the same belief system although all believed in justification by faith through blood (Yeshua`s sacrifice) by God's grace alone. They did not all have as strong an opinion on other points as another might have had. Consequently, that's the reason for the various names down through human history.

I didn't quote the whole post because it was long (I did read it) and my reply is just to say I did read it and have not yet got the book. I have done some reading about the book and I have some knowledge of those groups all ready. 

Im coming off a cold that whipped me out a bit. I want to read the trail of blood for myself and than respond so it will likely be the weekend before I can reply. 

Cheers

 

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Guest Judas Machabeus
17 hours ago, woundeddog said:

we are talking Christian churches----

I had to go back to get the context of what you quoted of me. 

So I said:

One more thing as I wrap up this post..... Only Catholics and be anametha (excommunicated). Its hard to kick someone out of a church that isn't a member of that church right?

Cheers and blessing 

--------------

So at the time of the reformation there were two (I'm lumping all the Orthodox together) Christian Churches. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, the reformers came from the Catholic Church therefore were excommunicatable. I don't know what process the Orthodox Churches have for kicking out heretical members. But I assume they do have one, we see it in scripture:

Matthew 18:17

17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the Church; and if he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

So to bring it back to your point. Today there are 10's of thousands of different Christian Church thanks to the reformation. The Catholic Church can only excummunicate someone that is Catholic. So all those anametha's (I'm sure that's spelt wrong) in the Council of Trent apply to Catholics and not to Protestants. 

 

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22 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Paul was an apostle and not a saint.  ...RC INFUSED grace  is disguised as scripture .   You defend the catholic faith and I defend the faith.  Nothing new under the sun....its been going on for centuries.

I find it quite sad that you claim to know the truth but yet you stay in a religion that is contrary to the truth in so many ways.  The roof you sit under is corrupt and antichrist.

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them " (Eph. 5:11).

I dont feel it necessary to respond to you any longer. It is not profitable.

 

 

Mostly correct (referring only to content of this post) One thing strange though (unless you were referring to what the counterfeit calls saints) -  in Bible, Paul and all the ekklesia immersed in Jesus are called saints (has nothing similar to what "saints" are in the worldly / carnal church) , and since then also.  (not all social club members are saints, no, not by far).

Have you found anything profitable online ?  (it is rare to do so)

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1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

Mostly correct (referring only to content of this post) One thing strange though (unless you were referring to what the counterfeit calls saints) -  in Bible, Paul and all the ekklesia immersed in Jesus are called saints (has nothing similar to what "saints" are in the worldly / carnal church) , and since then also.  (not all social club members are saints, no, not by far).

Have you found anything profitable online ?  (it is rare to do so)

You dont know me yet (because I am fairly new here) so you dont know that you are stating the obvious to me .  I am in agreement with you.

We are saints because we are IN CHRIST. I was speaking of a saint "in the catholic reasoning".

Which btw, yes I do find many things online that are profitable.  I dont know where you are looking but I learn alot from things online.  We probably have different personality types which is A Okay!  Sharpening my mind is in some ways is recreation for me . I love learning.  There are many reputable famous godly men of whom I would not have had the opportunity to study under if it werent for the world wide web. Sadly enough, my favorite pastors(both living and dead) were found online. It is rare for me to NOT find  wonderful things online but then I am mostly immersing myself in the word in one way or another because that is what I thirst for. I also have an online account to PBS . Although I am not pleased with their obvious liberal agenda and their aligning themselves with Islam in some ways; I do enjoy alot of their content. I dont watch tv and usually dont go to the movies. Neither provide anything profitable for my spirit.  It is mostly worldly. My viewing entertainment is all found online except for the few times I catch a show on pbs on the tv. I like the shows about nature(my cat loves them too. haha) and I like the traveling shows,cooking shows, etc... 

Also, the internet is a means for us to also inject the truth of the gospel to the lost. I do this almost daily on FB when I am looking into politics and whats going on in the world  on sean hannity and breitbart pages. I sometimes wander onto other worldly pages as well for the purpose of injecting the gospel.

2 Corinthians 5:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

 

Abide in Christ :)

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Can I ask a question here? 
This Council of Trent? Their Council pertains just to the Roman Catholic church? Not all Christians? 
 

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1 minute ago, Anonymous Aristotle said:

Can I ask a question here? 
This Council of Trent? Their Council pertains just to the Roman Catholic church? Not all Christians? 
 

'As far as I know',  < shrugs >,  it only  is for people who believe in traditions , not in God's Word. (or traditions OVER the Word of God),  as Jesus warned the disciples to beware concerning religious leaders in the first century(who still had TORAH, so today is far, far worse) .

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3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

'As far as I know',  < shrugs >,  it only  is for people who believe in traditions , not in God's Word. (or traditions OVER the Word of God),  as Jesus warned the disciples to beware concerning religious leaders in the first century(who still had TORAH, so today is far, far worse) .

Thank you. :)  

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