No Bible basis for a 70 week period at the end of time or a "70th" week at the end of time

[Revelation Man]

All Israel does not mean every Jewish person alive. There will be 2/3 the Jewish peoples murdered, we know only the Jewish people who flee unto the Wilderness will be protected. Many will choose not to flee, many others will be in the USA or other countries where they can not escape to the wilderness. All Israel will be Saved means Israel as a Nation turns to God, thus Israel as a Nation is Saved, the SEED is intact as God promised Abraham. 

Genesis 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. (All Israel is Saved).  Isaiah and Paul don't lie, people just misunderstand what they meant, of course. We all know all Jews can't and won't be Saved.....we also know when Israel sinned against God not all were evil, you had great Prophets sent to Babylon, but ALL ISRAEL was punished and seen as Wicked. ALL ISRAEL only means Israel as a whole turns to God, as a Nation they turn to God, most of the Jewish people killed I assume will live in foreign lands, some will choose to stay in Jerusalem. Israel as a Nation will be Saved, the seed of Abraham will survive. 
 

 

[OneLight]

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I am going by the scriptures, and as I stated the daily sins or habitual sins will end. Of course they will still live in the flesh, and thus they will need to blood of Christ to cleanse them, of course, it will be like the largest church with the greatest preacher ever leading it, Jesus will be our King. But sins will end, the bible is never wrong. Not ALL SIN will end, even a bad thought of course is sin, or anger at a brother over nothing is sin. That is not what the verse means, which is why I stated daily sins.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins,... The Angel didn't just place this here for no reason. Sins must end, not ALL SINS, but habitual sins will end (Daily Sins). The Hebrew word used there is chatta'ah  it is derived from chatta, From H2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender:—punishment (of sin), purifying (-fication for sin), sin (-ner, offering).

I do not know about the rest of the world, but sins will end in Israel. Jesus is King and Lord. People will not willfully sin (Habitually Sin Continually), that is different from being born into sin. Men stop the Habitual sinning, men are of course still of the flesh at that time and are born into sin, and sin at times...BUT... men will not read porn every day, cheat on their wives, lie continually, steal on purpose, go to war, have prejudice of who a brother is, hate others because they look different, etc. etc. etc. Sons will end as we know them today. This world LOVES SIN, Jesus says if you love this world the love of God/Father is not in you. But when Jesus comes to be our Lord and King for 1000 years this world will be beautiful, loving, caring, sweet, honest, etc. etc. No man will sin for the sake of sinning, no men will love son of any kind, they will despise anything that come against Christ Jesus.

The whole reason for the 1000 year Reign is to bear witness against Satan against his ways and against the men who followed him. For 6000 years we had Satan ruling this world, and men were evil, murdering each other, stealing, lying, cheating, lusting, wars galore etc. etc. etc. For the 1000 years Jesus reigns, there will be none of that, sure w are born into sin, because the men living on this world are still of the SEED of Adam and Eve, but all men will follow the Masters ways. At least in Israel, and I assume all over. 

Daily sins will end, men will not habitually sin, men will not willfully sin. Men are sinners by nature, but sins will end, as we now know them. God will not allow that anymore, when Satan is released, God will destroy the people that follow him with fire. 

You see where we are crossing wires is, we both know men of Adam will still be of the flesh, bit with Jesus leading us, the SINS OF THIS EVIL WORLD as we now know them will end when Jesus comes, they just will, that's not saying sin is not present in our flesh. 

God Bless, I hope that explained it, just saying Daily Sins were going to end was probably not a good enough explanation. Sorry

 

I don't see the passage indicating there will be no more sin, but the rule of man on earth is over.  The Millennium is the beginning of Christs rule on earth.

[Revelation Man]

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I don't see the passage indicating there will be no more sin, but the rule of man on earth is over.  The Millennium is the beginning of Christs rule on earth.

That's what the word says, we'll have to agree to disagree. When I put my study in for the 70th Week Decree blog, I read a couple of in-depth studies on the very sentence about an end to sins, one was a Jewish Rabbi and another was a Christian blogger, both seemed to infer that willful Daily Sins, as we now know them, would end. pf course one guy was speaking about Jesus and the other guy about Messiah, we of course know its the same person.

[Serving]

On 2017-6-11 at 11:11 AM, BobRyan said:

 

Misunderstanding the events that are to be confined inside a Bible timeline is never an valid excuse for slicing and dicing the timeine into shreds and scattering it all over Bible history. Rather the fact that all Bible timelines are contiguous as even the 70 years of Daniel 9:1-7 "must be" (and we all know it) - is the clue that such assumptions about events listed or whether they are  confined within the timeiline

 

1. Finish the transgression  (Israel has a limit before it has filled up its 'measure of guilt') and both Christ and Paul claim they reached it inside that 490 years.
2. Make and end of sins  (Sins under probation - ended. All sins since then are after Israel was rejected as God's means of evangelism. Nation Church)
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity  (The Messiah made the atoning sacrifice 1 John 2:2 within that 490 year timeline)
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness  (Christ came - within that 490 timeline)
5. To seal up vision and prophecy  (All predictive prophecy pertaining to Israel ended inside that 490 limit. "behold your house is left to you desolate" Matt 23)
6. Anoint the most Holy  (Jesus went to heaven as our High Priest Hebrews 8:1 and anointed the Heb 9 most holy place in heaven as our High Priest) within that 490 year timeline

And as Heb 10:4-11 says Christ is the one who takes away sacrifices and offerings - inside that 490 year timeline.

Hi BobRyan,

A good question to ask those opposing you is this: IF the 70 weeks were NOT fulfilled, then WHY did God punish Israel?

Because IF the 70 weeks were deferred into the future, then God would NOT have punished Israel, because they would be considered INNOCENT of failure to fulfil those 6 requirements UNTIL and UNLESS they likewise breached the extension date, exactly like asking for an extension on an outstanding bill, when the extension is given, NO penalty is incurred UNLESS that new extension date is also breached.

 Nobody to date has been able to answer this because the implication is obvious, Israel was punished because they FAILED to complete the 6 requirements laid down by God, and seeing that they were punished, then the obvious answer slaps us in the face, and that is that the 70 weeks DEADLINE was obviously UP, over, done, FULFILLED .. God called in their "DEBT" for failing to meet His deadline .. hence Israels destruction as penalty for that FAILURE.

Which thing means that any deferral into the future is IMPOSSIBLE once the penalty is given, otherwise the penalty would be considered UNJUST .. and we all know that God is NOT unjust.

Regards.  

[BobRyan]

On 6/10/2017 at 11:02 PM, BobRyan said:

Not true that there is any timeline at all for 6th and 7th seals. We do not imagine something of the form "there shall be 10 years from 5th seal to 7th seal - with 20 years gap inserted into it" no such language in all of Revelation.

 

On 6/11/2017 at 0:57 AM, Keras said:

It is plain from history, that the first five Seals were opened at Jesus' Ascension. We have had the wars, famines and plagues in plenty. The martyrs of the Fifth Seal are those from Stephen and their number will be completed by the Return of Jesus.

 

I agree to that mostly. The 6th seal is the second coming.

On 6/11/2017 at 0:57 AM, Keras said:

Why is it so hard for people to see that the about a half hour of the Seventh Seal is IN HEAVEN. 

Day for year in apocalyptic writing just as we have in Daniel 9. So then 1/2 hour is about 7 days. The length of time the saints travel with Christ and the Angels going back to heaven after the 2nd coming event.

 

On 6/11/2017 at 0:57 AM, Keras said:

Is time to God in heaven the same as for us on earth?  NO; we are told by 2 witnesses, Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 that for God in heaven; the equivalent of one day, is 1000 years earth time.

Not quite. 2 Peter 3:8 says it is "BOTH ways" -- 1000 years as a day for God and a single literal day for us - a 1000 years for God. It is BOTH according to 2 Peter 3 so it is not a "time ruler" rather it is saying that a day is not "too little time for God to do something" nor a 1000 years "to long a time to wait for His purposes to unfold". It is BOTH in 2 Peter 3 not just one. You skipped over that Bible detail which led you to the wrong track end-point.

 

[BobRyan]

58 minutes ago, Serving said:

Hi BobRyan,

A good question to ask those opposing you is this: IF the 70 weeks were NOT fulfilled, then WHY did God punish Israel?

Because IF the 70 weeks were deferred into the future, then God would NOT have punished Israel, because they would be considered INNOCENT of failure to fulfil those 6 requirements UNTIL and UNLESS they likewise breached the extension date, exactly like asking for an extension on an outstanding bill, when the extension is given, NO penalty is incurred UNLESS that new extension date is also breached.

 Nobody to date has been able to answer this because the implication is obvious, Israel was punished because they FAILED to complete the 6 requirements laid down by God, and seeing that they were punished, then the obvious answer slaps us in the face, and that is that the 70 weeks DEADLINE was obviously UP, over, done, FULFILLED .. God called in their "DEBT" for failing to meet His deadline .. hence Israels destruction as penalty for that FAILURE.

Which thing means that any deferral into the future is IMPOSSIBLE once the penalty is given, otherwise the penalty would be considered UNJUST .. and we all know that God is NOT unjust.

Regards.  

Good points all. Especially when the "details" of Daniel 9 are fulfilled in the NT and the NT notes each one of them including "Causing sacrifices and offerings to cease" -- in Hebrew 10:4-10. And "confirming the covenant" where Christ said in 1Cor 11 "this cup is the New Covenant in my blood".

All Bible timelines are contiguous.

All Apocalyptic timelines use day-for-year symbolism.

[BobRyan]

On 6/11/2017 at 6:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

I am going by the scriptures, and as I stated the daily sins or habitual sins will end. Of course they will still live in the flesh,

 

Not quite. IT is a reference to rebellion against God - to probation closing.

Matt 23

³² Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. ³³ You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

³⁴ “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, ³⁵ so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. ³⁶ Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Lament over Jerusalem

³⁷ “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. ³⁸ Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! ³⁹ For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

 

"Your house is left desolate" is the curse of Solomon at the dedication of the temple - the curse he warned Israel about.

 

1 Thess 2

for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, ¹⁵ who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, ¹⁶ hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.

 

It is a reference to national probation closing. God still loves all including the Jews and is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But their days as a nation-church of evangelists has ended.

[iamlamad]

On 6/16/2017 at 11:17 PM, BobRyan said:

Quote

Why is it so hard for people to see that the about a half hour of the Seventh Seal is IN HEAVEN. 

Day for year in apocalyptic writing just as we have in Daniel 9. So then 1/2 hour is about 7 days. The length of time the saints travel with Christ and the Angels going back to heaven after the 2nd coming event.

Perhaps John came up with this time frame because that is how long it seemed to him at the time. I suspect it is 30 minutes of earth time while John is watching in heaven. Anyway, it is a fitting way to officially begin the 70th week of Daniel.

[iamlamad]

On 6/11/2017 at 11:03 AM, inchrist said:

Who said i dont believe in those nasty things to be in the future?

I just dont base an eschatology on a faulty concept of an antichrist signing a covenant with many.....

But by all means provide scripture where in Revelation you think Daniels last week begins

I hope you will allow me to answer this: The 70th week is "marked*" by 7's: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it. 

 

(*the word "marked" was God's word when He spoke to me. I was just minding my own business, reading in Daniel 9:27, and when my eyes and mind got to the word "midst" suddenly God spoke and said that I could find that exact midpoint "clearly marked" in the book of Revelation. Then, almost as an afterthought, after He explained HOW I would find that exact midpoint "clearly marked," He said, "in fact you could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked.")

[BobRyan]

1. No reference to "70th week of Daniel starting" in the entire book of Revelation

2. The 1/2 hour = 7 days requires the use of day-for-year to get 1/2 hour to be 7 days.

That would "already be" the day-for-year expansion.

Expanding out the expansion (double application) is - "Doing it again" with the same time span --and  is never indicated in all of scripture. So no "well 1/2 hour would be 7 days and 7 days would be 7 years" that would be recursive and no Bible model supports such a thing.

Edited July 14, 2017 by BobRyan