ERRORS of the POST-TRIB. view.

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Hello Marilyn,

I think we all agree Jesus is not a liar.  In regards to the elect though, and our understanding of whom the elect is, can you tell me what this passage means to you.

Romans 9:6  But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

If all who are born Jewish do not belong to Israel, then who is Israel?

Hi wingnut,

The people of Israel, the earthly nation who have been promised rulership over the nations will be those who go through the tribulation. They will have their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit to their Messiah.

` It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.`(Zech. 12: 9 & 10)

`I will bring one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name and I will answer them. I will say "This is my people," and each one will say. "The Lord is my God.` (Zech. 13: 9)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Keras said:

The Jews thought they were still God's special people. They were wrong and john corrected them: Matthew 3:7-10, and Jesus said the Kingdom would be taken from them. Matthew 21:43  Jesus also said they belonged to the synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9b

We know who the real people of God are: 1 Peter 2:9-10, Galatians 3:26-29. +

Please cease, in the Name of Jesus; your promotion of the Jewish people as a special race. We Christians welcome Christian Jews, along with individuals from every other race, nation and language, but a whole people group - no.

Shalom, again, Keras.

I need to continue. When it comes to Matthew 21:43, one really MUST read the verse IN ITS CONTEXT! Not to do so is being dishonest with the Scriptures.

Matthew 21:23-46
23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation (Greek: ethnei = "to a people") bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
KJV

First, these chief priests (two, Annas and Caiaphas) and the elders of the people were the ones who came to Yeshua` and INTERRUPTED His teaching to ask the first questions: "By what authority do you do these things? Who gave you this authority?" Yeshua` said, "I'll tell you, if you answer my question first: Did the baptism of John come from God or from men?" They figured out what they suspected would be His next statements if they said, "yes" or "no", and decided they couldn't commit to either: "We can't tell you." So, He answered, "Neither will I tell you, then, by whose authority I do these things."

There are three sets of peoples that are contrasted in these parables and in reality:
1. the publicans (corrupt tax collectors for Rome) and harlots (prostitutes) vs. the chief priests and the elders of the people.
2. the husbandmen (vineyard workers) who killed the owner's son vs. other husbandmen (other vineyard workers).
3. the chief priests and Pharisees vs. the multitude of the people. 

While "ethnos" often means "a Gentile people," it isn't FORCED to mean that, and in this case, it is the contrast to these chief priests and Pharisees that takes precedence.

One absolutely MUST listen to what the Scriptures are saying rather than to read one's own words into what is being said. He was telling these religious and civil leaders that THEIR OWN authority was in jeopardy! After all, that's the theme of their questions, right?

In the first parable, the "certain man" is the authority. He tells both of his sons to go work in the vineyard. The first said, "No," but went anyway. The second said, "Yes, sir," but did not go. So, Yeshua` simply asked, "Which one did what his father wanted?" The obvious answer is the one who said "No," but did it anyway. The "proof is in the pudding," so to speak. The work was PERFORMED by the first son. The second son DID NOTHING. By Yeshua`s own analogy, he said the brothers represented the group of corrupt tax collectors and the prostitutes and them, the group of chief priests and Pharisees.

In the second parable, the "certain householder" was the authority. In the parable, he portrayed the evil husbandmen and then let THEM provide their sentence for their rebellion and mistreatment of the householder's servants and his own son.

From His quotation of Psalm 118:22, it is clear that THEY, the chief priests and the Pharisees, were the builders who rejected the stone in the building of the pyramid. However, that stone would come back as the CAPSTONE!

[wingnut-]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi wingnut,

The people of Israel, the earthly nation who have been promised rulership over the nations will be those who go through the tribulation. They will have their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit to their Messiah.

` It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.`(Zech. 12: 9 & 10)

`I will bring one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name and I will answer them. I will say "This is my people," and each one will say. "The Lord is my God.` (Zech. 13: 9)

regards, Marilyn.

 

 

Hello again Marilyn,

I'm not understanding your response I guess in regards to the question.  What I am asking is what your understanding is of the passage from Romans specifically.  What is Paul saying here in your opinion?

 

Romans 9:6  But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

 

If not all of Israel descend from Israel, then who is the Israel Paul is speaking about?

[Keras]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I need to continue. When it comes to Matthew 21:43, one really MUST read the verse IN ITS CONTEXT! Not to do so is being dishonest with the Scriptures.

Yes; we need to be honest and ascertain what the whole of scripture say in regard to who is the true Israel and what God plans for the ethnic Jewish people. 

Matthew 8:13 I tell you truly: many will come for the East and the West [Christians] and sit with the Patriarchs at the banquet of the Kingdom. But those who were born into the Kingdom [Jews] will be thrown out into the dark, where there will  be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 

I can provide plenty more prophesies that say the ethnic descendants of Jacob have no claim to any special redemption, in fact because they had and still have, a better chance to know the truth, but continue to reject it; then their punishment will be final. Zephaniah 1:17-18, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Romans 9:27, +

Would it not be better to believe the truth about what God plans for His people in these last few years? Why grip onto theories and fables that don't have proper Bible support? There is no 'rapture', there is no easy way out of what must come; we must stand firm to prove our faith thru all to come before Jesus Returns and then we receive our rewards. Revelation 13:9-10

[n2thelight]

On 6/24/2017 at 8:09 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, n2thelight.

Something you might want to think about: Why did God take six days to create the heavens and the earth? You said,

The word "perfect" means "mature." It does not mean anything more than that. Why did He create the first earth perfectly and instantaneously in verse 1 and take six days to create it the second time? The correct answer is, He didn't. He created earth and the skies ONCE. As I've said before, Jewish literature typically begins with a summary of what is to follow. Think of this summary as a main point in an outline. Then, the subpoints are expanded in the lines to follow.

As proof of this being the case in Genesis 1, simply look at the words for "heavens" (or "heaven" in some versions) and "earth":

In Genesis 1:1, we read,

B-ree'shiyt baaraa' Elohiym eet hashaamayim v'eet haa'aarets:

B-ree'shiyt = In-the-beginning
baaraa' = created
Elohiym = God
eet = (the next word is the direct object)
hashaamayim = the-skies (dual)
v'eet = and-(the next word is the direct object)
haa'aarets: = the-earth:

But, then we read in Genesis 1:8,

Vayiqraa' Elohiym laaraaqiyaa` shaamaayim:

Vayiqraa' = And-gave-name
Elohiym = God
laaraaqiyaa` = to-the-expanse
shaamaayim: = skies (dual):

And, later we read in Genesis 1:10,

Vayiqraa' Elohiym layabaashaah erets:

Vayiqraa' = And-gave-name
Elohiym = God
layabaashaah = to-the-dry-ground
erets: = earth:

Therefore, the first verse is the summary because God named the expanse between waters "shaamaayim" and named the dry-ground "erets," the same words used in verse 1! Since God made these things on days 2 and 3, respectively, He did NOT create them BEFORE the six days of Creation.

In each of the six days, God creates something and creates each of those things "perfect," "mature." But, they could only go so far in the matrix in which they were created. Each was perfect and mature, but they could only be as perfect and mature as far they could go. They could not go any further. For instance, sea creatures could not be created until there were seas. Land animals could not be created until there was first land! And, the whole earth had to be designed before mankind could be created.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

was

1961  hayah

hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon,  altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall,  follow, happen,  have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require,  use.

void
922

bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:

KJV - emptiness, void.

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Keras said:

Yes; we need to be honest and ascertain what the whole of scripture say in regard to who is the true Israel and what God plans for the ethnic Jewish people. 

Matthew 8:13 I tell you truly: many will come for the East and the West [Christians] and sit with the Patriarchs at the banquet of the Kingdom. But those who were born into the Kingdom [Jews] will be thrown out into the dark, where there will  be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 

I can provide plenty more prophesies that say the ethnic descendants of Jacob have no claim to any special redemption, in fact because they had and still have, a better chance to know the truth, but continue to reject it; then their punishment will be final. Zephaniah 1:17-18, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Romans 9:27, +

Would it not be better to believe the truth about what God plans for His people in these last few years? Why grip onto theories and fables that don't have proper Bible support? There is no 'rapture', there is no easy way out of what must come; we must stand firm to prove our faith thru all to come before Jesus Returns and then we receive our rewards. Revelation 13:9-10

Shalom, Keras.

Okay, let's start at the end of what you had to say, because it's simply not true, and you've got a LOT to learn about the Second Coming of Yeshua` the Messiah!

Part of the "rewards," as you put it, involve rulership over towns! Luke 19:17, 19. How is that possible if we are not "reigning with Him for a thousand years?" Revelation 20:1-6. In fact, the whole character of the Millennium is about putting the enemies of the Messiah in their place as well as blessing the true children of Israel, descendants of Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqov. Psalm 2:1-12; 1 Corinthians 15:20-28; Ezekiel 36-37; etc.

You've REALLY got to start reading the WHOLE prophecy, not just a little portion of it, like a verse here or there! For instance, your references to Zephaniah 1:17-18 is meaningless without its background context! For instance, just look at the first few verses of Zephaniah:

Zephaniah 1:1-7
1 The word of the LORD which came unto Zephaniah the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hizkiah, in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah.
2 I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD.
3 I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.
4 I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests;
5 And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham;
6 And them that are turned back from the LORD; and those that have not sought the LORD, nor inquired for him.
7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
KJV

This was a prophecy about the near future to them in Judah during the kingdom of Josiah! It's NOT a prophecy about a time that is still in our future!

Ezekiel 21:1-8 is OVER! Again, look at its context! Read it to at least the end of Ezekiel chapter 22! You will discover (if you're honest) that this passage is about the captivity of Y'hudah (Judah) to the Babylonians! He was not sheathing the sword until it had accomplished what God was doing in sending them into captivity and killing the residue in the Land!

Ezekiel 21:14-32
14 Thou therefore, son of man, prophesy, and smite thine hands together, and let the sword be doubled the third time, the sword of the slain: it is the sword of the great men that are slain, which entereth into their privy chambers.
15 I have set the point of the sword against all their gates, that their heart may faint, and their ruins be multiplied: ah! it is made bright, it is wrapped up for the slaughter.
16 Go thee one way or other, either on the right hand, or on the left, whithersoever thy face is set.
17 I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the LORD have said it.
18 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
19 Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city.
20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.
21 For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.
24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
28 And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering:
29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.
30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.
31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.
32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
KJV

Regarding Isaiah 22:14, you didn't read far enough (which is your TYPICAL failure):

Isaiah 22:18-25
18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.
19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down.
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it.
KJV

This is a prophecy about the RETURN of Y'hudah (Judah) after the Babylonian Captivity!

Regarding Jeremiah 10:18, again, read on:

Jeremiah 10:14-25
14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
16 The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name.
17 Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress.
18 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find it so.
19 Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous: but I said, Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it.
20 My tabernacle (tent) is spoiled, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains.
21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
22 Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country (around the top of the "Fertile Crescent" to Babylon), to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons (lizards).
23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.
25 Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.
KJV

Even in Romans 9:27, you didn't read the context:

Romans 9:27-29
27 Esaias (Isaiah) also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
KJV

It's not the Gentiles that are the "remnant"; it's the scraps of cloth FROM THE ORIGINAL CLOTHING! The "seed" is obviously the children of those in Israel because he is comparing them to "Sodom and Gomorrha."

If you want to see someone who has a theory with no Bible support, look in the mirror!

[Retrobyter]

23 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

was

1961  hayah

hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon,  altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall,  follow, happen,  have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require,  use.

void
922

bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:

KJV - emptiness, void.

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

Shalom, n2thelight.

Sorry, but you're not going to "snow" me with this nonsense; I speak Hebrew! I study Hebrew! And, you DON'T know what you're talking about! In the original texts, it does NOT say "the earth became without form!" It says, "V-haa'aarets haaytaah tohuw vaaVohuw v-choshekh `al pneey t-howm v-ruwach Elohiym mrachefet `al pneey hamaayim:"

V-haa'aarets = And-the-earth
haaytaah = she/it-was
tohuw = empty
vaaVohuw = and-formless
v-choshekh = and-darkness
`al = against
pneey = [the]-face
t-howm = of-[the]-deep
v-ruwach = and-[the]-wind
Elohiym = of-God
mrachefet = gently-moved
`al = against
pneey = [the]-face
hamaayim: = of-the-waters:

All verbs in Hebrew have gender, they are either masculine or feminine (there's no neuter as there is in Greek), and they are either singular or plural, and agree with the noun that is the subject for that verb. The ending of the verb gives this information. For more, go to the Pealim.com page.

LEARN HEBREW!

[n2thelight]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, n2thelight.

Sorry, but you're not going to "snow" me with this nonsense; I speak Hebrew! I study Hebrew! And, you DON'T know what you're talking about! In the original texts, it does NOT say "the earth became without form!" It says, "V-haa'aarets haaytaah tohuw vaaVohuw v-choshekh `al pneey t-howm v-ruwach Elohiym mrachefet `al pneey hamaayim:"

V-haa'aarets = And-the-earth
haaytaah = she/it-was
tohuw = empty
vaaVohuw = and-formless
v-choshekh = and-darkness
`al = against
pneey = [the]-face
t-howm = of-[the]-deep
v-ruwach = and-[the]-wind
Elohiym = of-God
mrachefet = gently-moved
`al = against
pneey = [the]-face
hamaayim: = of-the-waters:

All verbs in Hebrew have gender, they are either masculine or feminine (there's no neuter as there is in Greek), and they are either singular or plural, and agree with the noun that is the subject for that verb. The ending of the verb gives this information. For more, go to the Pealim.com page.

LEARN HEBREW!

Bottom line for me is

The earth became void and without form

 

With a question we can maybe end this

Do you think you were with God before being born of woman?

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by n2thelight

[Marilyn C]

On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 6:25 PM, Keras said:

The Jews thought they were still God's special people. They were wrong and john corrected them: Matthew 3:7-10, and Jesus said the Kingdom would be taken from them. Matthew 21:43  Jesus also said they belonged to the synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9b

We know who the real people of God are: 1 Peter 2:9-10, Galatians 3:26-29. +

Please cease, in the Name of Jesus; your promotion of the Jewish people as a special race. We Christians welcome Christian Jews, along with individuals from every other race, nation and language, but a whole people group - no.

Keras,

This thread is about the errors of the Post-trib, and specifically whether the `elect` in Matthew 24: 31 is Israel or the Body of Christ. This thread is NOT about whether the Body of Christ is Israel. If you continue off the topic then I will have to report your activity to the moderators. So please let us keep the discussion on topic as I have recently requested.

Marilyn. 

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, n2thelight.

Sorry, but you're not going to "snow" me with this nonsense; I speak Hebrew! I study Hebrew! And, you DON'T know what you're talking about! In the original texts, it does NOT say "the earth became without form!" It says, "V-haa'aarets haaytaah tohuw vaaVohuw v-choshekh `al pneey t-howm v-ruwach Elohiym mrachefet `al pneey hamaayim:"

 

Hi Retro,

Please remember what this thread is all about - the errors of the Post-trib. I will have to report to the moderators if people keep talking about other topics. Let`s continue with the topic of the thread, please.

 

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

Bottom line for me is

The earth became void and without form

 

With a question we can maybe end this

Do you think you were with God before being born of woman?

 

Hi n2thelight,

May I also remind you that this thread is about the errors of the post trib, and if people keep going off topic I will have to report to the moderators. Please let us discuss the topic.

Marilyn.