Reinitin Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Reinitin, Thank you for your comments. I see we read those scriptures differently. So can you explain please, what you believe the Apostle Paul was saying, by the Holy Spirit, - `...how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I wrote before in a few words, by which, when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His apostles and prophets., that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ...` (Eph. 3: 6) Thank you, Marilyn. Yes. as soon as you explain how you come to your conclusion that Jesus is a liar and deciever if there is no pre tribulation rapture and how a few verses in ephesians proves Jesus would be a liar if He didnt come for his bride before the tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixerupper Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 51 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Reinitin, Thank you for your comments. I see we read those scriptures differently. So can you explain please, what you believe the Apostle Paul was saying, by the Holy Spirit, - `...how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I wrote before in a few words, by which, when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His apostles and prophets., that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ...` (Eph. 3: 6) Thank you, Marilyn. I know the mystery he's refering to has nothing to do with a rapture. Only somebody who hasn't done their own study of the text would believe that. "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words," This revelation is how Jews and Gentiles would be joined together in one body of Christ. The truth of this mystery means that Gentiles are now full partakers of His promise. 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; This is the MYSTERY described.... Verse 6...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. Pre-trib. It's one fabrication after another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,552 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,626 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 Pre trib is a error. You can still be a true christian and believe in the pre trib but you would be wrong. I think its easy to disprove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,552 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,626 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 13 hours ago, fixerupper said: That's another pre-trib fabrication. I would think people know better than to fall for such nonsense. Whether a person was called a Christian before Mathew 13 or 24 OR NOT is moot. The words "elect and chosen" are used over 20 times in the NT to indicate Christians, NOT ONCE ISRAEL OR JEWS! It's really bad hermeneutics to use such an argument to support anything. When the ministry of Jesus the CHRIST began, those who followed him were CHRISTIANS whether they were identified as such at that time OR NOT. You folks really need to look not so much at what you believe, BUT WHY YOU BELIEVE IT. I am just so thouroughly amazed and impressed that some Christians just can't see, refuse to see, or just don't care at the unscrupulous level of fabrication and contradiction in pretribulationism. It's so bad, and such a false deceitful hope that leaves many with NO desire to prepare for tribulation, and one reason why we've been warned about it. All this deems it the deceitful 'spirit' of pretribulationism. It's a complete adding to and taking away, i.e. perversion of God's Word. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (christians) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. I can make a pretty good argument that John the Baptist is the first Christian AND the last OT prophet. You are correct. Now Christ was talking to his disciples . They asked him for the sign of the end of the age. No where does Christ state in Matt 24 of coming for his church before in that passage. Why would he leave it out ? The disciples were already followers of Jesus. It says in Matt at the sound of the trumpet he will gather the elect. In thess it says at the last trumpet the dead will rise. In rev it says after the seventh trumpet all will be finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,552 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,626 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Davida said: So they think it's easily "disproved" lol, but I've never been convinced of anything else but Pre-trib, but like Wayne I don't think it is anything to fuss or squabble about. It is our blessed hope. Our blessed hope Davida is the redemption of our bodies. It is not being saved from martyrdom in the great tribulation . We would be blessed to suffer for his name. Paul said I count my life as nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Our blessed hope is the resurrection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,552 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,626 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 13 hours ago, fixerupper said: That's another pre-trib fabrication. I would think people know better than to fall for such nonsense. Whether a person was called a Christian before Mathew 13 or 24 OR NOT is moot. The words "elect and chosen" are used over 20 times in the NT to indicate Christians, NOT ONCE ISRAEL OR JEWS! It's really bad hermeneutics to use such an argument to support anything. When the ministry of Jesus the CHRIST began, those who followed him were CHRISTIANS whether they were identified as such at that time OR NOT. You folks really need to look not so much at what you believe, BUT WHY YOU BELIEVE IT. I am just so thouroughly amazed and impressed that some Christians just can't see, refuse to see, or just don't care at the unscrupulous level of fabrication and contradiction in pretribulationism. It's so bad, and such a false deceitful hope that leaves many with NO desire to prepare for tribulation, and one reason why we've been warned about it. All this deems it the deceitful 'spirit' of pretribulationism. It's a complete adding to and taking away, i.e. perversion of God's Word. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (christians) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. I can make a pretty good argument that John the Baptist is the first Christian AND the last OT prophet. The blessed hope is the redemption of our bodies at the resurection . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,552 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,626 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 The blessed hope is also the return of Christ at the last trumpet. We hope for the return of Christ and our bodies being made immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,552 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,626 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Davida said: I don't think of it as saving us from martyrdom. I don't think the wrath that is to come is for the Bride. I don't think the Groom will have the Bride beaten up before the Wedding. The tribulation is not the wrath of God. The wrath of God is bowls pour out after the trumpet sounds. That Christians will not suffer. The tribulation comes before the bowls of wrath. The tribulation is Jacobs trouble and those who believe in Christ as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 265 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,170 Content Per Day: 3.50 Reputation: 8,477 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Online Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Reinitin said: Yes. as soon as you explain how you come to your conclusion that Jesus is a liar and deciever if there is no pre tribulation rapture and how a few verses in ephesians proves Jesus would be a liar if He didnt come for his bride before the tribulation. Hi Reinitin, Why I said thank you in my last post, was that I understand that my comment would seem wrong to you. Sorry that you thought that. What I was referring to was that Christ did not speak to Israel concerning the Body of Christ, as He had not yet revealed that revelation to the apostle Paul yet. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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