ERRORS of the POST-TRIB. view.

[fixerupper]

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Even thou I agree with your post tribulation view why the hostility? We can have different views on this and still be one in unity.

I have a hatred for pretribulationism.  The hostility comes from decades of deceptive teachings by hundreds of prominent pre-trib prophecy experts who have made millions writing books and making videos.  It comes from THEM NOT admitting a big mistake and many of them know it!  How can these millionaires admit they've been wrong when pre-trib has made them millionaires?  I hate pre-trib because it takes a pristine act of God's kindness and turns it into a terror attack!

John Hagee was preaching pre-trib one day with a prop behind him showing planes, trains, busses, and automobiles crashing as the spirits of believers were ascending toward heaven.  Now why would God kill innocent people simply to remove believers from being killed in the tribulation?  Kind of counterproductive isn't it?

One girl I know left church becasue they were teaching pre-trib often and she didn't want to be gone while here teenage children were left behind so she dumped Jesus Christ for the sake of her children.

Pre-trib is disgusting because of the extreme level of fabrication, resulting contradictions, and more fabrication to counter those contradctions.  that's why the illustrious LAMAD says the gathering is complicated and only a spirit filled believer like himself can understand it.

I'm sick of pre-trib.  It causes people to become complacent about preoparing for tribulation.  And then, if there is no rapture, that means we are NOT in tribulation.  

Pre-trib.  It's the most deceitful and widely held false doctrine that has ever entered the Church.

Probably the biggest gripe I have with pre-trib is the people who believe it.  They are more true to the doctrine than they are obtaining truth.

I am just blown away at the poor interpretational skills of Christians today.

So yes I have a hostility toward pre-trib.  

 

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, fixerupper said:

And the passage itself says oterwise...

The passage is talking about US, i.e. GENTILE believers, being grated into Israel!  

This is the MYSTERY described....
Verse 6...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

So I guess the Lord and Paul were deceitful liars to Israel!

Marilyn, can't you see that you're doing what you can to support a bunch of fabricated falsity?  

Hi fixerupper,

So where does it say we are grafted into Israel, bro?

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

17 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

I have a hatred for pretribulationism.  The hostility comes from decades of deceptive teachings by hundreds of prominent pre-trib prophecy experts who have made millions writing books and making videos.  It comes from THEM NOT admitting a big mistake and many of them know it!  How can these millionaires admit they've been wrong when pre-trib has made them millionaires?  I hate pre-trib because it takes a pristine act of God's kindness and turns it into a terror attack!

John Hagee was preaching pre-trib one day with a prop behind him showing planes, trains, busses, and automobiles crashing as the spirits of believers were ascending toward heaven.  Now why would God kill innocent people simply to remove believers from being killed in the tribulation?  Kind of counterproductive isn't it?

One girl I know left church becasue they were teaching pre-trib often and she didn't want to be gone while here teenage children were left behind so she dumped Jesus Christ for the sake of her children.

Pre-trib is disgusting because of the extreme level of fabrication, resulting contradictions, and more fabrication to counter those contradctions.  that's why the illustrious LAMAD says the gathering is complicated and only a spirit filled believer like himself can understand it.

I'm sick of pre-trib.  It causes people to become complacent about preoparing for tribulation.  And then, if there is no rapture, that means we are NOT in tribulation.  

Pre-trib.  It's the most deceitful and widely held false doctrine that has ever entered the Church.

Probably the biggest gripe I have with pre-trib is the people who believe it.  They are more true to the doctrine than they are obtaining truth.

I am just blown away at the poor interpretational skills of Christians today.

So yes I have a hostility toward pre-trib.  

 

Hi fixerupper,

I can quite understand you `anger` at such nonsense as was preached to you. I in no way believe that God will just `zap` people from driving cars, or piloting planes, or in the middle of heart ops etc. Absolutely horrendous. That is not the `catching away` that I believe God`s word says.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Morning Marilyn, 

Gods plan didn't change. His prophets spoke of it. The gentile nations grafted in to the Abrahamic promise was passed by Isaac when he laid his hand on his younger grand son to pass on the blessings of God. Genesis 48 I think? you study in hebrew right? blessing on ephram? full number of the gentiles? gentile nations? There are at least three prophetic witnesses to every biblical truth. 

The Gentile participation in the body of Christ was revealed first to Peter in a dream and confirmed by God in the giving of the Holy Spirit. Peter was baptising gentiles before paul ever recieves a revelation. Just because men can't see it doesn't mean God is not doing what he said.

God has proclaimed that truth is confirmed by three witnesses. We even have three witness that confirm our salvation. The Blood, The Water and The Spirit. There are not three prophetic witnesses to a pretrib raptute. It Wasnt even thought of till about 1830.

On a personal note. Are you sorry i thought it or sorry you wrote it?

sincerly,

Lisa

Hi Reinitin,

I`m sorry that it came over as `if you don`t believe this.....then .....` Will be more careful how I say such things in future, so thank you for the correction. Now I do like what you say concerning the witness in God`s word. Yes we can`t just have one scripture or a jumble of scriptures to try and prove a point of view.

Actually Paul received Christ`s revelation of the Body of Christ before Peter went to Cornelius` house. And it was only when Peter saw that the Holy Spirit Himself had fallen upon the Gentiles that Peter then realised that he should baptise them. (Acts 10: 44 - 48)

regards, Marilyn. 

[fixerupper]

21 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi fixerupper,

So where does it say we are grafted into Israel, bro?

Marilyn.

You don't understand verse 6?  Or has pre-trib clouded your understanding of it?

Verse 6...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective wor

[Marilyn C]

31 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

You don't understand verse 6?  Or has pre-trib clouded your understanding of it?

Verse 6...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective wor

That to me says we are in the Body of Christ together, not grafted in to Israel. Israel was not the Body of Christ that we should be grafted into, but together jews and Gentiles make up the Body of Christ.

BTW no need to be rude, bro. (has.....clouded...etc)

[fixerupper]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

That to me says we are in the Body of Christ together, not grafted in to Israel. Israel was not the Body of Christ that we should be grafted into, but together jews and Gentiles make up the Body of Christ.

BTW no need to be rude, bro. (has.....clouded...etc)

I don't care if you perceive me as being rude or hostile.  I've been condemned by people on the forum for disagreeing with them.

I don't condemn anybody, but I do know when something isa  blatant perversion of scripture.  I know it's obvious when something is being, "made up, added to, or fabricated.  The arguments are endless in pre-trib because the contradictions, fabrications, and twisting of scripture is endless. I know pre-trib is false, and I prophesy it.  

I say pre-trib is a spirit of deception making you believe in something that will never come to pass.  And I prophesy it.

Pre-trib is a lie.  And I prophesy it.  And I'm not even a Pntecostal!

[Reinitin]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Reinitin,

I`m sorry that it came over as `if you don`t believe this.....then .....` Will be more careful how I say such things in future, so thank you for the correction. Now I do like what you say concerning the witness in God`s word. Yes we can`t just have one scripture or a jumble of scriptures to try and prove a point of view.

Actually Paul received Christ`s revelation of the Body of Christ before Peter went to Cornelius` house. And it was only when Peter saw that the Holy Spirit Himself had fallen upon the Gentiles that Peter then realised that he should baptise them. (Acts 10: 44 - 48)

regards, Marilyn. 

Good Evening Marilyn.

Could you start another thread? I do not want to take this one off topic. I feel we both may have decades of studying ( me 40 years english, latin, hebrew, aramaic, greek. my mom is not catholic but she was raises by nuns in a catholic orphanage in Napoli, Italy and is fluent in 11 langauges. I had a little help studying biblical text in original launguages from age 15) I saw you say you do not study the english translations either but the oldest manuscipts in their original launguages..

 Considering we have an elementary dispute we should study this out first. One of us is believing and teaching something untrue.

The content to verify the apostals time line is in scripture.

It is true the Holy Spirit spoke to the disciple that healed paul's blindness and said to him that Saul would take the gospel to gentiles, Israelites and kings and suffer much for Christ (ac 9?) But Saul was still being buffeted by the Lord and his mission was first to Israelites in towns outside Jerusalem until acts 18 when his mission changed to the gentiles.

There is only one argument around 239'ish a church father made a claim that the first gentile to recieve the kingdom of God was the Eunich Phillip baptised. The claim was the Eunich's salvation was a fulfillment of the prophecy of God extending his hand from ethiopia.

Other then that there are no legitatment desputes or claims it has always been verifiable. Cornilaus was the first gentile added to the kingdom of God.

Around acts 15 ( I think) peter declared that Christ has made him an apostal to Jews and Gentiles and we know this is true Because Jesus commisioned them to go to all nations even to the ends of the earth baptising all peoples.

So please do share where you get the idea paul was baptising and preaching the kingdom of God to Gentiles before peter. 

I think we need to verify this dispute with scripture because if we cant verify a verifiable dispute with study and prayer. I will never be able to show you in scripture (in proper context) who paul is addressing in ephesians 1-2-3.

As far as our conclutions from our studies of scripture. my mission in my studies come from John 17, "This is eternal life to know the One true God and his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus prayed for everyone that believes the message of his disciples. He prayed that he would be in us making the Father known to us because no one Knows our Father accept Christ (which would of included Paul).

I dont study to know doctrins or prove doctrins.  I study to know My God and Lord and his purposes, principles and to take his advise, instructions and warnings to heart. I also study to know what the Lord desires we pray for and know what God wants us to encourage each other with. I didnt find Christ on  the Roman Road I actually believe Calvins fruit is thorns.

The Lord found me in an athiest home where a very old dusty,  latin, family ,Bible was hidden in the attic with generatations of a families notes in it.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Reinitin
phone keyboard typing blopps and blunders

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, fixerupper said:

I don't care if you perceive me as being rude or hostile.  I've been condemned by people on the forum for disagreeing with them.

I don't condemn anybody, but I do know when something isa  blatant perversion of scripture.  I know it's obvious when something is being, "made up, added to, or fabricated.  The arguments are endless in pre-trib because the contradictions, fabrications, and twisting of scripture is endless. I know pre-trib is false, and I prophesy it.  

I say pre-trib is a spirit of deception making you believe in something that will never come to pass.  And I prophesy it.

Pre-trib is a lie.  And I prophesy it.  And I'm not even a Pntecostal!

So fixerupper,

I`ll leave you to your own thoughts.

Marilyn.

[Wayne222]

I think that this issue of the rapture is important.  Corrine ten Boom said that pre trib was made up by false teachers. I don't know if that is true but someone is wrong.