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When should a pastor step down from pastoring?


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6 hours ago, OneLight said:

Maybe I should of given a more in depth explanation.  Neither you nor I, nor anyone else unfamiliar with the situation, is qualified to judge when a pastor needs to step down. Each church, if the administration is created properly, has a board or elders who holds the pastor accountable.  It is their job to resolve the issue.  Scripture also lists Bishops that is responsible for those under him, but that only applies with congregations who have bishops.

Quote

 

Anyone unfamiliar with any situation isn't qualified to judge anything. 

Accountability works both ways, mutual accountability. Esteem the weaker among you as the most important.

We are given enough information in the OP to know it isn't sexual or doctrinal but things were said and people were hurt, there was repentance and some responsibilities taken away which is reasonable and a wise thing to do in many situations. We shouldn't burden ourselves so much we hurt or neglect others or family in the ministry. Seems to me,  with the information given, the problem is being sorted out.

But you still used a text out of context for this situation. Paul spoke of the saints judging nations, judging angels and sometimes the way we throw around "do not judge" seems to be more to shut mouths or step around situations rather than deal with justice. No one wants justice thrown at them but give me mercy, right.

A pastor that has fallen from grace, sexual or doctrinal, can continue being a part and an important part of the fellowship, but the front man, the first among equals, no way. And if he was truly repentant he wouldn't have it any other way. This also seems to be a sign in the OP that this pastor is repentant, that he is compliant with having duties reduced. That's a good thing. This is based upon the information given by the OP. And I believe along the lines of a response the OP may be looking for.

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If we did not seek a deeper understanding of what scripture offered, there would be only limited growth, and when you reached a certain limit, one would become stagnant.  I don't see scripture that way at all.  Despite the reason Paul used the statement, because he used it in limited reasoning doe snot mean what was being said cannot be applied in other areas of life.  We judge an action, not a position in Gods calling.  We can say he is a false teacher, but we cannot say he is not a teacher, giving you an example.

 

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2 hours ago, OneLight said:

If we did not seek a deeper understanding of what scripture offered, there would be only limited growth, and when you reached a certain limit, one would become stagnant.  I don't see scripture that way at all.  Despite the reason Paul used the statement, because he used it in limited reasoning doe snot mean what was being said cannot be applied in other areas of life.  We judge an action, not a position in Gods calling.  We can say he is a false teacher, but we cannot say he is not a teacher, giving you an example.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying even makes sense. You're assuming things and frankly you used a verse out of context. Spin as you wish, who am I to judge.

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Zemke said:

I'm not sure what you're saying even makes sense. You're assuming things and frankly you used a verse out of context. Spin as you wish, who am I to judge.

As I said, I was not using it as Paul was using it, but the fact remains there is more to gain from this then the usage Paul used it for.  There are many verses in scripture that can be applied to other facets of life then what it was used for.  Not looking deeper into scripture is your choice.  I am sure you have prayed for an answer and God brought scripture back to your memory in a way it was not used in scripture.

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when God tells him to...no sooner, no later.

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I appreciate everyone's responses.  I do know his teaching is still sound and he is transparent about his life.  As well, people have testified on him making things right with them.  By looking at him now there is no question to me there is no longer a need to step down (if there ever was), but I still wonder about the past- should he have stepped down at the time, especially when it came out that he and the elder board had acted in haste (though they reconciled with the people they had disciplined).  Is there a biblical mandate for when a leader must step down even after repentance?  Any violation of the requirements for becoming a leader in the first place, or perhaps just when unrepentant?  Thanks again.

Edit: I suppose that since the church seems to be thriving once again (though some other more prominent names have disappeared) and the teaching seems as solid as ever I guess that would answer the question.  If God had told him to step down and he didn't, I would expect to see things spiraling downward by now, either in him, the church, or both.

Edited by Qun Mang
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On 6/18/2017 at 6:06 PM, Qun Mang said:

Just recently a website that was dedicated to exposing and bringing down a pastor of a particular megachurch with many church plants rose from the dead after a few years and gleefully shared news that the pastor was stepping down from his role in the church plants (he is still senior pastor of the main group of churches) for reasons that they say may not have been his own.  A friend who is, lets say really disappointed in the pastor, posted this on facebook and one of his comments was that the pastor disqualified himself some years ago and did not step down when he should have.  Having attended the church, I do know there was a big issue a few years ago about what I believe was a misunderstanding that caused the elder board to publicly discipline a few men for what they thought the men did when they partnered with this website (I do believe it was only the people who ran the website that were guilty of the issue) but I don't really know all the details.  Many people left the church when this happened, and I do know that a year later we were told that they had reconciled, and the pastor had acknowledged his own involvement in the hurt of some people (not just the ones I mentioned, but others as well) and that he had repented. 

TL;DR: This pastor hurt some people, later reconciled and repented, but some think he should have stepped down as senior pastor when this came out but didn't, and now it's a few years later and he he is still there in the same role.

Should he have stepped down in such a situation?  Please understand that nothing in this has to do with adultery and he was never accused of such (as far as I know), but this was rather about the way he ran things and (allegedly?) treated some people.  If not, what should disqualify a pastor?  Thanks.

Given the fact that we have absolutely nothing to go on here, I absolve him or her in the name of Jesus. 

Next...

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Seriously, this comes across as innuendo and gossip. To protect the individual(s) is admirable, but you don't have to name names or be so specific as to obviously identify who it was... but there's no there there to go on in answer to your question.

So I will answer the over all question (setting aside all that should have been more to go on in the specific case you mentioned).

In the Church organization... pastors should retire after 65 and they have plenty of golfing years left.

In the Church organism... we are all priests before God til the day we die.

In the Church organization... a pastor can be defrocked for squeezing the Charmin.

In the Church organism... only God defrocks his priests (usually with death).

And people can make mountains out of mole hills so any pastor in the organized Church is in danger.

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Is a pastor not a brother ?

Matthew 18:15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

Never take  a dispute to the world deal with it  at the church according to the lesson in Matthew 18.

Use also the model of Proverbs 25


    do not hastily bring into court,
for what will you do in the end,
    when your neighbor puts you to shame?
Argue your case with your neighbor himself,
    and do not reveal another's secret,
10 lest he who hears you bring shame upon you,
    and your ill repute have no end.

 

 Everyone should be very careful to do no harm to their own testimony by risking the sowing of discord among brothers!

Proverbs 6:

12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
    goes about with crooked speech,
13 winks with his eyes, signals with his feet,
    points with his finger,
14 with perverted heart devises evil,
    continually sowing discord;
15 therefore calamity will come upon him suddenly;
    in a moment he will be broken beyond healing.

16 There are six things that the Lord hates,
    seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
    and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked plans,
    feet that make haste to run to evil,
19 a false witness who breathes out lies,
    and one who sows discord among brothers.

 


   "There were incidents and accidents there were hints and allegations", From lyric by Paul Simon.

 I believe that for each of us  this advice has merit: That it is better to forgive and let go than it is to demand full account  be paid for slights and injustices presumed in our mind's eye against us and or against God. Do not be the subject of any "song" about a sower of discord. Let go of the pesky danglers of the mind that seeks out flaws in brothers. Instead forgive a brother seven times seven, and let God deal with what God will deal with and at the time God so chooses.

God does not have need of any man to fill the role of accuser nor of avenging angel. He will deal  as He is just and well as merciful. Do not obstruct the mercy of God saying, "but that  is not just", less He then holds you to account  in that very manner instead of granting mercy on you.

 

 

 

Edited by Neighbor
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Pray first, think, read the word of God, pray again, and see if that wild member the tongue can be silenced or if it must flicker about, revealing flaws of the heart to all the world, for which the soul might later be held accountable. 

I hate to think how many things I will be held accountable for, but I marvel at the mercy promised too. So it is my own confession that  harsh judgement  upon  a brother or a sister has been the fault in my own heart found voice by my own tongue, to my own shame. It is  a hard thing to overcome, the making such hard judgements upon others for their  flaws.

And yet  God has said to  have the heart that does forgive a brother  beyond reasoning of man. Do so with the love and mercy learned of God's capacity to reconcile justice with  His mercy and grace.

 

Seems it, forgiveness, must be a good thing to practice often, perhaps daily. Forgive and then drop the subject the suspected slight  or real offense totally.

Edited by Neighbor
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