Are Christians suppose to hate anyone?

[Sower]

8 hours ago, warrior12 said:

If you read my reply carefully, i was saying that the smelly homeless person would not get to sit in the pews, as some alternative arrangements would be made for him/her, maybe a chair in the back. Be reasonable, would you sit out a sermon holding your breadth in the name of showing some love to that person.  People would get up and leave and maybe move to another location.   I for one would not be sitting next to that person throughout a service and that does not mean i hate or object to that person being there, it is just i cannot stand stench for any period of time if i can help it.    Just had to make myself clear here, so that you do not misunderstand what my reply was about. 

I think cobalt1959 address the gay person and the his affiliation with the church much better than i would have and agree with his explanation.

  The Church has rules just like your house has rules.   It is not a come in and do as you like, but in meekness and fellowship, follow the guidelines they have set for everyone.  It is a choice a person have and if they cannot abide by the rules, then they can search for the ones that is acceptable to them.  This is how most people choose a church anyway.    

 

As Warrior said,  some alternative arrangements could be made, if possible.

Many years back, hitch hiking was a common way to travel for some, and I would usually stop and give them a lift. I never had a problem, and hitch hiked myself sometimes. Once on a Wednesday night, I picked up a young man and as I had just left the construction job and was headed to the evening service at church, running late, I invited him to church, and he accepted. Having worked the day myself and not having time to run home to shower, and that he was obviously homeless, so as we were late, I found a spot in the rear pews with as much "breathing room" as possible. It wasn't enough. I hadn't realized, driving with the windows down in my truck, just how powerful we stunk. Working myself all day with other carpenters, I thought I was immune to B.O. Sitting there in the pew next to him, I realized how powerful and sour and rank someone can get living on the road with no home. At the end of the service, there was not a living body within at least a dozen pews. As is customary at our church, every body lingers afterwards to talk and catch up with any news, and I introduced this gentleman to everybody, and there was not one remark or sneer given, if anything, just the opposite. We took him to the rescue mission for a place to stay over night and food. My worries about my friends accepting this down and out unfortunate man were unwarranted,  and I have never forgotten that night.... (Hope he didn't)

[Fidei Defensor]

On one hand you are to hate the sin: "And you must show mercy to^[h] those whose faith is wavering. Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives." (Jude 1:22-23). 

On the other hand Jesus had some choice words for Pharisees and Israelites:

"Jesus told them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. ⁴³ Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me! ⁴⁴ For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. ⁴⁵ So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me! ⁴⁶ Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don’t you believe me? ⁴⁷ Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God. But you don’t listen because you don’t belong to God.” (John 8:42-45) 

"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell^[f] you yourselves are!" (Matthew 23:15)

"“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. ²⁸ Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness." (Matthew 23:27-28) 

Then there are these tensions: 

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) [Generally this is interpreted as in comprasion, that you love Jesus more than your life and family, and you would abandon them if you had to chose Jesus or them]. 

"If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20 AMPC). 

"The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished." (Proverbs 16:5) 

The problem with word hate is that it isn't actually a terrible thing. Hate isn't the opposite of love, hate still has emotion and is harsher side of love, that you so hate what the person is doing because it hurts you. It is indifference (not caring, no emotion) that is true opposite of love: "I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference." (Revelation 3:19 NLT). 

[Lostlamb1978]

Greetings,

   I myself need not to hate them but let's show them mercy. Purpose of Christian is to seek and save the lost. 

[simplejeff]

On 6/19/2017 at 6:10 PM, notsolostsoul said:

My definition would be that no gays should be refused. Just as no adulterer, nor loose men or women should be refused. How they live their lives once saved is between them and God and at what certain point is also for God to determine. How do WE determine and is it right for US to do so? Does our doctrine trump our Lord?

This might explain in part why your core beliefs or values are unknown, or worse, known and wrong.

It is NOT between them and God,  and God has already declared it in His Word.

All the sinners you mention(if they claim to be saved), not just perverts, are refused fellowship in any and every assembly of ekklesia immersed in Yeshua and following Him as He teaches us in His Word,

if they don't confess and repent of their sin , IF they claim to be BRETHREN (SAVED) ....

This is not anything "WE" determine and it is not our choice - it is Yahweh's instruction.  (not even a doctrine)

The goal in Scripture is that they will have godliy sorrow and repent,  and that they not pollute the people around them.  This is what Yahweh Says in His Word.

[simplejeff]

On 6/19/2017 at 4:52 PM, notsolostsoul said:

On 6/19/2017 at 4:03 PM, Yowm said:

Well there are practical considerations. Do you assign a doubly convicted thief to guard the Queen's jewels? That to some would be discrimination to bar the thief from that position.

Lol.

Yes we should use judgement in our selections for such circumstances, but I'm speaking of certain treatment of others because they live differently. Out-casting them or refusing them.

Ex. Some churches refuse gays.

Some refuse smelly homeless. Some refuse because of the way some dress. 

When does it stop being disapproval and becomes hate or judging?

Guess it falls in the definition of the words Hate or Judging.

 

No, it doesn't have to do with hate or judging definitions.  It has completely to do with obedience to Yahweh,  doing what Yahweh clearly says to do.  Be DOERS of His Word,  not just HEARERS , and realize most people never hear and accept His Word, let alone DO His Word.   It is simple,  but man complicates it.  

Stay simple - seek Yahweh's Word, seek Yahweh's Kingdom.  Seek to hear the voice of the SHEPHERD JESUS.

[notsolostsoul]

21 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

This might explain in part why your core beliefs or values are unknown, or worse, known and wrong.

It is NOT between them and God,  and God has already declared it in His Word.

My core beliefs are rooted within Jesus words and teachings. If I had to choose a label of my belief (which I don't), Red Letter Christian would be the closest thing to describe me. I am a seeker of the knowledge of Christ and a follower of the Holy Spirit. A believer of The Trinity, and through this I let The Trinity Guide ME (and only Me) in my words and beliefs. I do not force my beliefs. No one has to be in agreement with me nor follow me. (Please don't, because it is not about me, It's about Jesus)

If I share my thoughts or attempt to help others, it is with the guidance of The Trinity and I only refer individuals to The Trinity.

If others see this as wrong, or even if I am wrong, that is between me and God. Just as it is between God and any other individual (homosexual, adulterous... etc).

God will sit me, as he will any other, on that judgement seat and we will all have to be accountable for our rights or wrongs.

God saves. I don't, nor does any other Man.

In scripture Jesus speaks of God's Law/Word. He also mentions that without The Spirit, scripture means nothing.

So for me, if The Holy Spirit directs me to reach out to sinners, homesexuals, adulterer... etc. etc, and I am instructed by Jesus to not judge and treat my fellow Man as I would want to be treated, then I will do just that.

I will reach out, or accept them into learning and teaching of Christ. I will not judge them because of their sin or how long it takes for them to come out of it. (Jesus is a Sheppard, he doesn't abandon his people). If after I try, if they don't receive Jesus, then I follow the direction of The Holy Spirit and Jesus instruction to leave them be.

I hope this clarifies some thing. I don't recall the full thread or my responses and I haven't gone back over them all. So please don't hold it against me if this particular response does not completely answer the questions you have or fully address any concerns that there might me.

I am always up for discussions. ?

[simplejeff]

12 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said:

I hope this clarifies some thing. I don't recall the full thread or my responses and I haven't gone back over them all.

It's not about the thread , topic, or posts...  This describes some things, but doesn't clarify them- it leaves a lot of questions unanswered that cannot possibly be answered quickly or in less than a few weeks or months  - believe it or not it may take 3 years to clarify a few of them (It took between 3 months and 3 years for Yahweh to clarify some of them for me).  

 

14 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said:

I am always up for discussions.

Always Yahweh Willing,  realize it may be a very long discussion...  (or likelyi possibly intermittent, for years,  as Yahweh accomplishes)

[frienduff thaylorde]

33 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said:

My core beliefs are rooted within Jesus words and teachings. If I had to choose a label of my belief (which I don't), Red Letter Christian would be the closest thing to describe me. I am a seeker of the knowledge of Christ and a follower of the Holy Spirit. A believer of The Trinity, and through this I let The Trinity Guide ME (and only Me) in my words and beliefs. I do not force my beliefs. No one has to be in agreement with me nor follow me. (Please don't, because it is not about me, It's about Jesus)

If I share my thoughts or attempt to help others, it is with the guidance of The Trinity and I only refer individuals to The Trinity.

If others see this as wrong, or even if I am wrong, that is between me and God. Just as it is between God and any other individual (homosexual, adulterous... etc).

God will sit me, as he will any other, on that judgement seat and we will all have to be accountable for our rights or wrongs.

God saves. I don't, nor does any other Man.

In scripture Jesus speaks of God's Law/Word. He also mentions that without The Spirit, scripture means nothing.

So for me, if The Holy Spirit directs me to reach out to sinners, homesexuals, adulterer... etc. etc, and I am instructed by Jesus to not judge and treat my fellow Man as I would want to be treated, then I will do just that.

I will reach out, or accept them into learning and teaching of Christ. I will not judge them because of their sin or how long it takes for them to come out of it. (Jesus is a Sheppard, he doesn't abandon his people). If after I try, if they don't receive Jesus, then I follow the direction of The Holy Spirit and Jesus instruction to leave them be.

I hope this clarifies some thing. I don't recall the full thread or my responses and I haven't gone back over them all. So please don't hold it against me if this particular response does not completely answer the questions you have or fully address any concerns that there might me.

I am always up for discussions. ?

If others see this as wrong, or even if I am wrong, that is between me and God. Just as it is between God and any other individual (homosexual, adulterous... etc).

 

MY advice read the bible hours daily.   cause this is not the approach any of the true apostels had .   they corrected and they did it quickly.

IF you in error I correct ,    and if you see me in error.........YA better correct fast.    the church is supposed to LOOK out for one another.

and SIN is SIN.  no adulterres etc will inherit the kingdom of GOD , no gay marriage period.  IF YOU LOVE THEM , YA WARN THEM.  

[notsolostsoul]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

IF you in error I correct ,    and if you see me in error.........YA better correct fast.    the church is supposed to LOOK out for one another.

I get this, but I also find fault in how others choose to correct. Ultimate correction comes from God, whether he does it in this life time or after it is in his timing. 

He knows who is saved (can be saved) and who is not. Man does not know this. They can take a good guess but might still be wrong.

Man thought Jesus was a sinner and went against God.

Boy were they wrong.

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

and SIN is SIN.  no adulterres etc will inherit the kingdom of GOD

Didn't Jesus say to the woman at the well. I do not condemn you. She was a sinner, an adulterous. If he can save her, can't he save any other with any other sin?

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

IF YOU LOVE THEM , YA WARN THEM.

Yes, we can warn, but wouldn't it be better to introduce them to Jesus and let him teach them what is necessary to inherit the Kingdom of God? After all only He can lead the way.