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JESUS IS GOD


KiwiChristian

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Guest shiloh357
19 hours ago, fixerupper said:

That's right.  And you mis-represent me.  I never said Jesus wasn't God.  You don't know the difference between a full and half tank!

No I am not misrepresenting you.   You said Jesus wasn't God and Yowm has provided the quote where you said "Jesus wasn't God."

I know that Jesus was not half God or partially God.  Your claims are false.  No one who follows Jesus will believe your false claims.

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I thought nothing was impossible with God?  It's not impossible, it's just impossible to you!  Let the scriptures speak for themselves...

Nothing that God wills to do is impossible for Him.   It is impossible for God to die or sin.

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John 14;28  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no manis able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Cor. 15:28 says: “When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him [God] who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.”  

“The Son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing” 

 

And in Jesus' humanity at the time of His earthly ministry, that was true.  It is not true now.  Those statements were made by Jesus while He was voluntarily submitted to the Father that ended when Jesus rose from the dead and was exalted to the highest place.

 

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They are?  Is that the difference between half full and half empty!

No, its the difference between deity and Messiahship.   Those are separate concepts.   You need to learn the difference between the two.

 

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No.  That's something several bible authors made up.   You've accepted the trinitarian teaching of men.  I accept God's Word at face value!

No, it is something you have made up and have no Scripture that says anything like it.   It's just incompetent, bargan basemement theology that teaches what you teach.
 

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Wow Shiloh, you really do need to familiarize yourself with the fabricated doctrine you've accepted!

trin·i·ty

ˈtrinədē/

noun

the Christian Godhead as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

Yes, and that is what I am saying.   You're acting like the Trinity teaches that Jesus is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Jesus.   That would make them the same person, which is not what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches.   It teaches that God is made up of three distinct Persons, but who share the same being.

"Being" and "Personhood" are separate things. They are all three called God in Scripture, but are separately Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

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They will not believe until their spiritual eyes are opened.

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1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

No I am not misrepresenting you.   You said Jesus wasn't God and Yowm has provided the quote where you said "Jesus wasn't God."

I know that Jesus was not half God or partially God.  Your claims are false.  No one who follows Jesus will believe your false claims.

Nothing that God wills to do is impossible for Him.   It is impossible for God to die or sin.

And in Jesus' humanity at the time of His earthly ministry, that was true.  It is not true now.  Those statements were made by Jesus while He was voluntarily submitted to the Father that ended when Jesus rose from the dead and was exalted to the highest place.

 

No, its the difference between deity and Messiahship.   Those are separate concepts.   You need to learn the difference between the two.

 

No, it is something you have made up and have no Scripture that says anything like it.   It's just incompetent, bargan basemement theology that teaches what you teach.
 

Yes, and that is what I am saying.   You're acting like the Trinity teaches that Jesus is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Jesus.   That would make them the same person, which is not what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches.   It teaches that God is made up of three distinct Persons, but who share the same being.

"Being" and "Personhood" are separate things. They are all three called God in Scripture, but are separately Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So when I said, "Jesus isn't God because he too often regarded his Father as superior to him."  I made a mistake.  You and several others misrepresented me several times before that post.  So I made a mistake in that same post.  You guys are too busy demonizing people.  You people love to slander and talk bad about others, that's why I'm about ready to throw Christianity in the Abyss, there's too many people like you in it, and that's the way the devil wants it!

So let me correct my mistake.

"Jesus isn't FULLY God because he too often regarded his Father as superior to him.

Christianity has become more like the devil's religion than anything else.  Sensible people stay away from it.  I'm about done with it and don't expect to participate here any more.  Too may evil people who call themselves CHRISTIAN.  So I would like to remove myself from this **** hole of an Abyss and away from the demonic people at Worthy.  Ban me would you!  The followers of Christ are evil and ask to be banned from ths evil place.

Edited by fixerupper
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3 hours ago, fixerupper said:

 You people love to slander and talk bad about others, that's why I'm about ready to throw Christianity in the Abyss, there's too many people like you in it, and that's the way the devil wants it!

If you really understood what the christian faith is about, your statement above would be null and void. The reason, we do not war against flesh and blood, but the spiritual host of wickedness in high places.  You have to really understand that the christian life is about perseverance too.  Look at Paul in his epistles and see how he encourages and builds up to stand firm in adversity and struggles.   Don't take this as a scourge, but an encouragement for you to press on and see who the real enemy is in your christian walk, not the men and women here.  You have to learn to be a strong witness as this is what you would face in your life's journey as a christian ambassador.    I know you know this, but just a reminder.  cheers bro.

edit....  Oh, just read the last part of your last reply and it was truly horrible.  Anyway,  Saul, before he became the apostle Paul, was on a warpath to persecute christians on the Damascus road, when he encountered that light that changed his life forever and he became one of  God gifted vessel.  You have gifts too, but you are not using them wisely.  

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Guest shiloh357
54 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

So when I said, "Jesus isn't God because he too often regarded his Father as superior to him."  I made a mistake.  

Yes, you made a mistake.  You are making several mistakes.   Jesus never said that God is MORE God than Him.  You are making that up based on a sloppy mishandling of the text.   You are reading a meaning into the text of Scripture that simply isn't there.

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You and several others misrepresented me several times before that post.

No, we are not.  You are saying that Jesus God, but not fully God, or less God than the Father and you have been right called out on that unscriptural position.   The problem is that there is no such thing as being more or less God.   Deity doesn't exist in degrees or levels.   He is either God, or He isn't.   If you cannot say He is fully God, then you are, by default, denying that He is God at all. 

 

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You people love to slander and talk bad about others, that's why I'm about ready to throw Christianity in the Abyss, there's too many people like you in it, and that's the way the devil wants it!

No one is demonizing you.  No one said you are a bad person, but your theology is faulty and your exegesis is sloppy.  That is not demonization.   You are trying to use a form of emotional manipulation that isn't going to work.

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 Too may evil people who call themselves CHRISTIAN.

Yes, because no one is allowed to disagree with you and you demonstrate a real inability to handle those who  do disagree with you.

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1 hour ago, fixerupper said:

So when I said, "Jesus isn't God because he too often regarded his Father as superior to him."  I made a mistake.  You and several others misrepresented me several times before that post.  So I made a mistake in that same post.  You guys are too busy demonizing people.  You people love to slander and talk bad about others, that's why I'm about ready to throw Christianity in the Abyss, there's too many people like you in it, and that's the way the devil wants it!

So let me correct my mistake.

"Jesus isn't FULLY God because he too often regarded his Father as superior to him.

Christianity has become more like the devil's religion than anything else.  Sensible people stay away from it.  I'm about done with it and don't expect to participate here any more.  Too may evil people who call themselves CHRISTIAN.  So I would like to remove myself from this **** hole of an Abyss and away from the demonic people at Worthy.  Ban me would you!  The followers of Christ are evil and ask to be banned from ths evil place.

The word for "greater" at John 14:28 is mezion and it means ranks / position / status. It does not mean better than which would be the world "plion" as in "behold a greater (PLION) than Jonah is here." (Matthew 12:41).

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1 hour ago, Swords99 said:

They will not believe until their spiritual eyes are opened.

This was spoken to those who believe. 

If you study the context, this was spoken to those who believe. 

It was spoken to those who believe the promise that the CHRIST will come. 

And they did not believe that Jesus was the CHRIST. 

Jerusalem was inhabited by people who believed in the promise of the coming CHRIST. 

The people who condemn Jesus to death by crusifiction, they believed in the the promise of the coming of Christ, but they didn't believe that Jesus was the CHRIST. 

So anyone who would like to correctly apply this scripture to a group of people, "they", 

Then they must have seen that "they", have the hope and believe in the promise of the CHRIST, but the denied that Jesus was the CHRIST. 

You must address "they", who denied Jesus is the CHRIST. 

So are those whom you have call "they", denied that Jesus is the CHRIST, and "They" are still waiting for the real CHRIST to come. 

For I have read something in some book, I believed it was an old book, that said: 

If you believe in your heart and confess that Jesus was raised from the dead, and that he is Lord, then you are not condemn in Hell, but saved from Hell. 

So if someone is Saved from Hades, then what he cannot be found among the inhabitants of Hades, as one time JESUS was found in Hades , even e for a few days. 

So where the ones who have been saved from Hell can be found? 

How many of those who believe that they are Saved , they also believe that they are with JESUS CHRIST in Heaven? 

And how many disagree? 

How many believe that those who are Saved , they are not in neither Hell or Heaven? 

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On 28/06/2017 at 11:17 AM, KiwiChristian said:

Hmm. Where did i say that?

You didn't, I was referring to my own experiences here in the UK where any evangelical Church members with a Trinitarian doctrinal statement of faith on their website, when asked, will often misdefine the Trinity as either three separate gods / three spirits or else as Jesus being God the Father.

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Guest Thallasa
On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 10:31 PM, Yowm said:

This by definition is nonsensical.

1. There is only one God...the Father/Son and  Holy Spirit...One God, not two.

 Capital  H's  , please  .:P

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Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy
of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was
under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it
were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the
children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat
and drink.
KJV
John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent
me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in
the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore
that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not
that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath
seen the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~
Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.
Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from
Him.
So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of is not what that
the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament.
Looking further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All
things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that
was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the
light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There
was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a
witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might
believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that
Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh
into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and
the world knew him not.
KJV
John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a
devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man
keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than
our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom
makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is
nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is
your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should
say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him,
and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he
saw it, and was glad.
Trinity Thoughts
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and
hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel
interfaced with in the Old Testament days. Jesus in this form was with
the Father from the beginning.
It seems to me that the people of the Old Testament days were not aware
of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he
existed in before he became flesh.
Further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with
God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in
fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,
even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted
him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name
of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in
earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father
worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the Old Testament
times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the
Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the
Father on earth.
Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that
did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only
thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only
as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the
fleshly body.
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that
I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the
very works' sake.
KJV
John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which
shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as
thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in
us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory
which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as
we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in
one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved
them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou
hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory,
which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of
the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I
have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I
have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love
wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for
the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the
Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the
Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the
firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man
came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so
in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to
God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all
authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he
hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are
put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all
things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things
under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and
authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus
will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to
Him........ The Father.
I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He
was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father
after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over
all and giving it to the Father.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are
offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the
world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be
that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods
many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But to us, there is but one God, The Father of whom all things
came from......
And one Lord, Jesus whom we call the Christ, through which all things
came including us.
And we have the Holy Spirit which was sent to us from the Father at the
request of Jesus.
Interestingly, all three are one in thought, one in purpose, and one in
action. We can't interface with the Father without being indwelt by
the Holy Spirit, and we can't have the Holy Spirit without the
sacrifice and request of Jesus, and we couldn't have had Jesus without
the Father asking Him to do what he has done for us.
You have to have all three or none. And thus they are one.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

People life with many things thier god in this world....   for some it's money, some it's power over others, still some it's themselves, others is even the Devil.   Our God is the three combined "Father, Son and Spirit"

The word god in itself is not describing any individual or entity....

Edited by other one
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