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KiwiChristian

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4 hours ago, guestman said:


And who are the ones "bearing witness concerning Jesus", who are proclaiming "the good news of the Kingdom" throughout the earth from "house to house" as Jesus commanded ?(Acts 5:42; 20:20; Matt 24:14) And what did Jesus say would be the main identifying mark of his followers ? Always right in explaining prophecy ?

 

My friend, what IS the "good news of the Kingdom" ?

 

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4 hours ago, bryan said:

What Christian magazine has been consistent in how it views things for the past 40 years?  Any?  

How about authors?

1983 "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

1983 "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
 

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Interesting points are being made here.  

As an experiment, consider all the sermons in the major Christian churches given in the same years as those quotes dates and pages.  Would the messages of them be much different or would they look about the same?    Would we consider 1% of them the same way we're judging these?

I wonder what the title of the sermon where the pastor told my grandmother she was going to hell because she saw Gone with the Wind in the theater...

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Blessings Kiwi

   This is very disturbing to me,it hits close to home as my best friend of nearly 40 yrs is JW and her Mom,who was like a Mom to me just passed away at age 94.....over the years I've heard the same thing over & over......there is but one Lord-Jehovah God,it is considered blasphemy to call Jesus LORD....imagine that? Lord of lord,King of kings,God the Son......oh yes,Savior but not Lord? They don't even make sense but they are forbidden to read anything besides the NWT bible & any watchtower publications     How do you make sense to someone that will not read what is Written BEFORE what they have as their "Word of God".......they are trained to tell you"Yes,it is from the KJV Bible,same as yours & yet theyve omitted very important Scripture ,such as "The Word was wITH GOD " & NWT ends there....

Quote

John 1King James Version (KJV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

   But I will say,God is not limited by their efforts to limit Him,He Can Convict any heart & my best friend reads the KJV.....Jesus is her LORD & Savior,God the Son                                                                                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

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Blessings bryan....

   I have no idea what the name of that Sermon would be but that really is irrelevant to this discussion,imo because we are talking about the Doctrine of an entire organization & not the error of a person,people will get things wrong ,they will preach bad sermons & deliver messages that are not from God but from the flesh and many other things,Christianity is not about pastors & leaders,each man is accountable for his own Salvation,all you need do is read the Word of God for yourself,we are encouraged to search & seek God for ourselves....it all about Christ Abiding in us ,the Indwelling of His Holy Spirit.....thats the complete opposite of what JW believes & teaches.....when you begin with changing Gods Word thats messing with the core of Christianity,the Good News Gospel of Jesus Christ......theres always going to be bad preachers the same way there are people that post here & are obviously filled with nothing but anger,bitterness,unkindness,no self control,pride,resentments and are extremely judgemental,does that define Christianity,no it does not.....Jesus does       I think I'm rambling but it just sounds like apples compared to watermelons to me,sorry                         With love-in Christ,Kwik

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6 hours ago, guestman said:

Only Jehovah's Witnesses are fulfilling Isaiah 2, that says that "in the final part of the days" (our time frame), that "they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears", whereby individuals of a "nation will not lift sword against nation, nor will they learn war anymore".

Well since JW proclaim that they are the chosen ones and will be spreading the gospel in the tribulation (like the LDS btw) , if they are not killed first when 1/3 the earth is destroyed or later  the 1/4; perhaps they are right! Perhaps they will come to realize in the terrible day of the LORD that Jesus is God and that Jesus is part of the trinity Godhead! Perhaps in the tribulation they will come to be enlightened to the fact that Jesus died on a cross and not a stake. Perhaps the JW will also come to be enlightened as to Gods real name which is YAH or YHWH .  HalleluYAH !

It certainly seems like  a gamble  with eternally high stakes if you ask me . Its an eternal gamble because there is a lake of fire and eternal gnashing of teeth is going to happen to many.  

Matthew 7:13-14

13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

 

The ABC’s Of Salvation

A. Christ DIED for you – Romans 5:8
B. Christ PAID your sins in Full – 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:24
C. BELIEVE(Trust In Completely) on Christ ALONE for salvation – John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8,9, 1 Cor. 15:1-4
    Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand! Matthew 4:17

“For the wages of sin is death(Eternal Torment In Hell & The Lake of Fire); But the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord”. Romans 6:23

IT IS THAT SIMPLE – THE GOSPEL TRUTH

 

 

Blessings :) 

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On 7/20/2017 at 4:13 PM, KiwiChristian said:

Your works according to the Bible are as filthy rags. The catholics and mormons do good things like you guys do as well. That means nothing.

 

What IS important is not whether you ADMIT you  made false prophecies but that according to the Bible, the watchtower are false prophets and are not to be listened to.

 

The watchtower CLAIMED to be prophets, made FALSE prophecies, deny the Biblical Jesus and the Biblical God.

 

Jesus established that true Christianity would be "the one doing the will of the Father" as opposed to those who just call Jesus "Lord" (Matt 7:21, 22), and produce only "worthless fruit".(Matt 7:17) And what "fruit" or conduct has Jehovah's Witnesses produced ?


While the churches of Christendom have totally immersed themselves in the political arena and its bloody wars, Jehovah's Witnesses have been politically neutral like Jesus taught his genuine disciples to be.(John 17:16) You can call us "filthy rags", but Jesus calls us "my disciples" because we ' remain in Jesus words '.(John 8:31)


Who are the ones obeying Jesus words: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations........teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded ?"(Matt 28:19, 20) Who are the ones obeying the command by Jesus to be "no part of the world" (John 15:19), being politically neutral and removing any religious doctrines and practices that conflicts with "the truth", such as Christmas (Ecc 7:1), Easter (Luke 22:19, 20), as well as the "Holy Trinity" (John 14:28), hellfire (Jer 32:35), immortality of the soul (Eze 18:4, 20), purgatory (Ecc 9:5), calling men and women by religious titles (Matt 23:8-10)


Who are the ones obeying Jesus words to "have love among themselves" (John 13:35), unwilling to participate in the deadly wars of the nations ? Who are the ones obeying Jesus words to make known "the good news of the Kingdom.....in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations" ?(Matt 24:14)


Who are the ones that are following the apostle Paul's words: "For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation......For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" ?(Rom 10:10, 13)


Jesus said it succinctly concerning true and counterfeit Christians: "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door (which true Christians do), because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.......Then you (counterfeit Christians) will start saying, ' We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our main streets'. But he will say to you, I do not where you are from. Get away from me (for posing as genuine but are fake), all you workers of unrighteousness !"(Luke 13: 23, 26, 27)


Are you ' entering a city, searching out who in it is deserving ' (Matt 10:11-13), going from "house to house" as Jesus and the apostles did ?(Acts 5:42) Are you doing all these things, plus much more that is required of being a true Christian ?


Jesus words fit here: "Why, then, do you call me ' Lord ! Lord ! ' but do not do the things I say ?"(Luke 6:46)

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On 7/20/2017 at 4:15 PM, KiwiChristian said:

My friend, what IS the "good news of the Kingdom" ?

 

The "good news of the Kingdom" (Matt 24:14) is that this heavenly government (Matt 13:11), composed of 144,000 individuals selected from the earth (Rev 14:1-4 with Jesus as the primary king of it) who have proven their loyalty till death (Rev 2:10) and serve as "kings and priests" (Rev 5:9, 10), will rid the earth of wickedness (Ps 37:10), bring to perfection all those who are its loyal subjects (Rev 22:1, 2) and transform the earth into a paradise (Luke 23:43) as Jehovah God originally purposed from the beginning (Gen 1), in which then there will be an "abundance of peace......forever".(Ps 37:11, 29)

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On 7/20/2017 at 5:19 PM, Cobalt1959 said:

Your organization does not just misunderstand prophecy.  Your organization makes prophecies that continually fail to happen.  Your organization makes false prophecies, and when they prove to be false your organization either distances themselves from them, makes excuses for the failure, changes the prophecy, or say they just got the timing wrong.

Your entire organization was based on a prophecy for the Rapture that failed to come true.  On that single prophecy, the entire Jehovah's Witness House of Cards was built.  And they have been consistently delivering false prophecies ever since.  

The biblical test for prophecy is not graded on a curve.  You don't get to miss X number of prophecies and still get a passing grade.  One prophecy wrong:  You fail.  You are not a valid, or believable prophet.  The JW's "prophets" have failed many times meaning the JW organization is false, and should not be listened to.  It fails the biblical test when it comes to prophecy.

Prophecy is not supposed to be "ever changing."  Your argument when attempting to draw a parallel between your organizations failures and medical care or car repair is a false dichotomy.  Medical care and car repair do not have spiritual components, nor do they entail any form of prophecy.  God has already provided us with all we need to know, prophetically, so there is no need for some kind of organization like the Watchtower to give us added "progressive" revelation.  It is not something that anyone requires.  Even worse, we know from the Watchtower's history that their prophecies are always wrong and they have to continually change the prophecies, and their doctrine to accommodate the most recent prophetic failure.

The Bible has never changed.  But the JW's doctrine has changed many times.  Call me skeptical, but if your prophets were really hearing from God, I would have thought that they would get it right the first time.  Not only did they not get it right the first time, they have failed to get it right consistently ever since.  To use your car analogy, if I took my car to the mechanic to get it fixed and he couldn't fix it the first two times I took it to him, I'm not going to take it to him a third time.  He's already proven that he is not a very skilled mechanic.

True preachers and teachers of God's Word do not discourage independent and critical thinking.  They encourage it.  Because they know if they are being true to God's Word and are teaching it correctly, any of their audience can dig deeper and deeper into the Bible and it will just confirm what their teacher is telling them, because the Bible always confirms itself somewhere else and the Bible will always verify true biblical teaching and both refute and illustrate false teaching.  So when an organization tells anyone, "Don't think for yourself, just listen to us and just believe us because we know we are right . . ."  Ah . . . Yeah.  You are dealing with an extremely controlling organization that does not want it's adherents thinking for themselves because the organization knows it is all fake.  The people who run the Watchtower Society know they are running a spiritual con game.  That is why they do not want you to examine any of their teachings too closely.

Yes, we admit that we have erred in understanding many of the prophecies of the Bible, but have you not read Isaiah 60 concerning "the woman" that pictures Jehovah's organization both in heaven and on the earth. And what does it say ?


It says that God's people would begin with "wood", and then end up with "gold", denoting that in the beginning, the understanding would be inferior (or wrong), but at the end, their understanding would have reached to "gold", being able to finally grasp what the Bible really teaches.


Apparently you have never considered this prophecy that Jehovah said would occur. Jehovah knew that at the reestablishment of his people near the end of the "last days" (2 Tim 3:1), that as with any understanding, there would be mistakes. Remember Jehovah wrote this down, not me, so he knew that his genuine people would continue to refine their grasp of the Bible.


Have you not read in the Bible book of Proverbs: "For the righteous one may fall seven times, and he will get up again".(Prov 24:16) We have "fallen" many times in our understanding of the Bible, but each time we get up and see where we were wrong or off in our understanding of the Bible, making needed adjustments. Have you done any refining work on understanding the Bible on your part or is it the same as always ?


In the fields of science, medicine, computers, etc, mistakes were made in the past or were crude, but refinements are continuously being made and yet nobody complains about this, but rather are happy to have latest invention.


And about ' getting it right the first time ' regarding prophecy, please explain Daniel 11 and 12 exactly as Jehovah meant it. I will wait for you to do that on that one "prophecy" alone. Have you not read Proverbs 4 which says: "But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until the full day-light".(Prov 4:18)


Now you tell me that God was wrong when he inspired Solomon to write this down, that righteous ones would only gradually come to a full understanding of God's word and not the "first time". Tell him to his face that he was mistaken when he said that his people would over time start crudely to unravel the "mysteries of the Kingdom" (Matt 13:11), until "full day-light" of gaining a deep understanding of the Bible.


And have you not read what the Psalmist said about his righteous ones: "Light has flashed up for the righteous and rejoicing for those upright in heart".(Ps 97:11) The churches have never had "light flash up" concerning Bible truth, but have stayed ' in the rut" where they began some 1,700 years ago.


And have you not read whom Jesus appointed to provide spiritual food in our time frame, in which Jesus said: "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master (Jesus Christ) appointed (Greek katestesen meaning "to designate, to constitute") over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time ?"(Matt 24:45)


Jesus was not talking about a single individual but a body of men that is patterned after the first century "governing body" (Acts 15:2) who took the lead in providing for "his body of attendants".(Luke 12:42) Yes, the churches encourages "independent thinking" and that is why there some 41,000 different denominations and sects of Christendom with their own "interpretations" of the Bible and its prophecies.


Yet Jesus established only "one faith" that would measure up to being like him (Eph 4:5, 13, 14), being united as "one".(John 17:11) Are you going to argue with Jesus that it is okay to interpret the Bible as each person wishes, despite his laying out the foundation that "the truth" would only come through "mountain of the house of Jehovah" that "all nations will stream" to be instructed by him?(Isa 2:2, 3)


Have you not read where Jesus quoted from Isaiah 54:13, saying concerning the "woman's sons" that "they will all be taught by Jehovah".(John 6:45) Jehovah's Witnesses are being "taught by Jehovah". Are you ?

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On 7/20/2017 at 5:42 PM, Blueyedjewel said:

Well since JW proclaim that they are the chosen ones and will be spreading the gospel in the tribulation (like the LDS btw) , if they are not killed first when 1/3 the earth is destroyed or later  the 1/4; perhaps they are right! Perhaps they will come to realize in the terrible day of the LORD that Jesus is God and that Jesus is part of the trinity Godhead! Perhaps in the tribulation they will come to be enlightened to the fact that Jesus died on a cross and not a stake. Perhaps the JW will also come to be enlightened as to Gods real name which is YAH or YHWH .  HalleluYAH !

It certainly seems like  a gamble  with eternally high stakes if you ask me . Its an eternal gamble because there is a lake of fire and eternal gnashing of teeth is going to happen to many.  

Matthew 7:13-14

13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

 

The ABC’s Of Salvation

A. Christ DIED for you – Romans 5:8
B. Christ PAID your sins in Full – 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:24
C. BELIEVE(Trust In Completely) on Christ ALONE for salvation – John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8,9, 1 Cor. 15:1-4
    Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand! Matthew 4:17

“For the wages of sin is death(Eternal Torment In Hell & The Lake of Fire); But the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord”. Romans 6:23

IT IS THAT SIMPLE – THE GOSPEL TRUTH

 

 

Blessings :) 

Jesus words at Matthew 7:13-27 identifies those who would make a pretense of being his followers in contrast to those who are his genuine disciples. He uses the language of "fruits" to describe their conduct. And what is the conduct of the churches of Christendom ?


Their hands are "filled with blood" like the ancient nation of Israel.(Isa 1:15) From the Crusades (11th-13th centuries) to the Inquisitions (14th-16th centuries) down till our day, the churches have been immersed in the political arena that has shed the blood of massive numbers of people.


For example, during the Spanish Inquisition, Pope Sixtus IV appointed Dominican monk Tomas de Torquemada (1483-98 C.E.). Peter de Rosa, in his 1988 book Vicars of Christ - The Dark Side of the Papacy, wrote that "in the pope’s name, [the inquisitors] were responsible for the most savage and sustained onslaught on human decency in the history of the race.” Of Dominican inquisitor Torquemada in Spain, he says: “Appointed in 1483, he ruled tyrannically for fifteen years. His victims numbered over 114,000 of whom 10,220 were burned.”


In contrast, what is the conduct of Jehovah's Witnesses ? They have remained politically neutral, though in World War I, it was unclear what Jesus meant for them to do, so some were in the military, but refused to harm anyone, just shooting in the air.


But within the next 20 years, it became clear what Jesus meant when he said that his genuine disciples would be "no part of the world".(John 15:19) While the churches continued to slaughter one another, Catholic killing Catholic, Presbyterian killing Presbyterian, Mormon killing Mormon (some 600 Mormons were part of Adolf Hitler's Nazi army, under command from their headquarters to do so), Protestant killing Protestant, Jehovah's Witnesses were imprisoned and killed for not joining the armies on both sides, applying Isaiah 2:4 to "beat their swords into plowshares", Jesus words "to love one another".(John 13:35) So, who are the ones on the "cramped road", willing to die in order to follow in Jesus "footsteps" ?(1 Pet 2:21-23)

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