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Jehovahs Witnesses


KiwiChristian

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3 hours ago, guestman said:

Jesus words at Matthew 7:13-27 identifies those who would make a pretense of being his followers in contrast to those who are his genuine disciples. He uses the language of "fruits" to describe their conduct. And what is the conduct of the churches of Christendom ?


Their hands are "filled with blood" like the ancient nation of Israel.(Isa 1:15) From the Crusades (11th-13th centuries) to the Inquisitions (14th-16th centuries) down till our day, the churches have been immersed in the political arena that has shed the blood of massive numbers of people.


For example, during the Spanish Inquisition, Pope Sixtus IV appointed Dominican monk Tomas de Torquemada (1483-98 C.E.). Peter de Rosa, in his 1988 book Vicars of Christ - The Dark Side of the Papacy, wrote that "in the pope’s name, [the inquisitors] were responsible for the most savage and sustained onslaught on human decency in the history of the race.” Of Dominican inquisitor Torquemada in Spain, he says: “Appointed in 1483, he ruled tyrannically for fifteen years. His victims numbered over 114,000 of whom 10,220 were burned.”


In contrast, what is the conduct of Jehovah's Witnesses ? They have remained politically neutral, though in World War I, it was unclear what Jesus meant for them to do, so some were in the military, but refused to harm anyone, just shooting in the air.


But within the next 20 years, it became clear what Jesus meant when he said that his genuine disciples would be "no part of the world".(John 15:19) While the churches continued to slaughter one another, Catholic killing Catholic, Presbyterian killing Presbyterian, Mormon killing Mormon (some 600 Mormons were part of Adolf Hitler's Nazi army, under command from their headquarters to do so), Protestant killing Protestant, Jehovah's Witnesses were imprisoned and killed for not joining the armies on both sides, applying Isaiah 2:4 to "beat their swords into plowshares", Jesus words "to love one another".(John 13:35) So, who are the ones on the "cramped road", willing to die in order to follow in Jesus "footsteps" ?(1 Pet 2:21-23)

Sadly there is a great chance of you dying in your sins because you follow a faith that denies the deity of Christ.

The days of your doctrines of demons taking innocent housewives captive have long gone. People are more educated these days.

Have you seen this scripture?

Galatians 1:8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!…

Lord I pray that any words this person puts on paper or any words that this person speaks out will fall dead to the ground. No ear will hear. The Lord rebuke all that is against the true holy gospel. In Jesus Name, Amen!

 

The ABC’s Of Salvation

A. Christ DIED for you – Romans 5:8
B. Christ PAID your sins in Full – 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:24
C. BELIEVE(Trust In Completely) on Christ ALONE for salvation – John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8,9, 1 Cor. 15:1-4
Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand! Matthew 4:17

“For the wages of sin is death(Eternal Torment In Hell & The Lake of Fire); But the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord”. Romans 6:23

IT IS THAT SIMPLE – THE GOSPEL TRUTH

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On 7/20/2017 at 4:07 PM, KiwiChristian said:

Yes, they teach michael is Jesus and vice versa.

 

Yes, they DENY the Biblical Jesus.

The one single act of denying Jesus is the Son of God tosses the JWs onto the ash heap of false religions.  They are not a Christian organization and we need to pray for them to come to the One True God.  Anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is of satan.

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34 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

The one single act of denying Jesus is the Son of God tosses the JWs onto the ash heap of false religions.  They are not a Christian organization and we need to pray for them to come to the One True God.  Anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is of satan.

:thumbsup: 

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11 hours ago, guestman said:

Jesus words at Matthew 7:13-27 identifies those who would make a pretense of being his followers in contrast to those who are his genuine disciples. He uses the language of "fruits" to describe their conduct. And what is the conduct of the churches of Christendom ?

There is only ONE church, my friend.

Their hands are "filled with blood" like the ancient nation of Israel.(Isa 1:15) From the Crusades (11th-13th centuries) to the Inquisitions (14th-16th centuries) down till our day, the churches have been immersed in the political arena that has shed the blood of massive numbers of people.

Is that because of DOCTRINES of the church or individuals?

 

The watchtowers no blood doctrine has killed MANY men, women and children. THEIR hands are "filled with blood".

 


For example, during the Spanish Inquisition, Pope Sixtus IV appointed Dominican monk Tomas de Torquemada (1483-98 C.E.). Peter de Rosa, in his 1988 book Vicars of Christ - The Dark Side of the Papacy, wrote that "in the pope’s name, [the inquisitors] were responsible for the most savage and sustained onslaught on human decency in the history of the race.” Of Dominican inquisitor Torquemada in Spain, he says: “Appointed in 1483, he ruled tyrannically for fifteen years. His victims numbered over 114,000 of whom 10,220 were burned.”

That is CATHOLIC, not CHRISTIAN.


In contrast, what is the conduct of Jehovah's Witnesses ? They have remained politically neutral, though in World War I, it was unclear what Jesus meant for them to do, so some were in the military, but refused to harm anyone, just shooting in the air.

They knock on Christians' doors and tell them everything they believe is WRONG. They infect people with their lies every day casting doubt on the true, Biblical Jesus Christ.


 

 

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On 21/07/2017 at 10:05 AM, bryan said:

Interesting points are being made here.  

As an experiment, consider all the sermons in the major Christian churches given in the same years as those quotes dates and pages.  Would the messages of them be much different or would they look about the same?    Would we consider 1% of them the same way we're judging these?

I wonder what the title of the sermon where the pastor told my grandmother she was going to hell because she saw Gone with the Wind in the theater...

Did this "pastor" show your grandmother the Biblical evidence to back up what he said?

The watchtower said that those that leave Jehovahs Witnesses are mentally disturbed/ill.

 

 

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14 hours ago, guestman said:

The "good news of the Kingdom" (Matt 24:14) is that this heavenly government (Matt 13:11),

Matthew 13:11 "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." says NOTHING about a "heavenly government"

composed of 144,000 individuals selected from the earth (Rev 14:1-4 with Jesus as the primary king of it)

The 144,000 are selected from among those already in HEAVEN when they are selected for service ( from the 12 tribes of Israel, which the watchtower is NOT of ). no mention of them co-ruling the earth. Their job is to preach the gospel during the tribulation. This does not mean that only 144,000 go to heaven.

I John 5:1 - ‘Whosoever (everyone) believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.’ There are no exceptions. Anybody and everybody who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born again.
John 3:16 ‘that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.’
I John 4:7 - ‘everyone that loveth is born of God.’
Notice that God never mentions that the number to be born again is restricted to 144,000 but is unlimited to ‘whosoever believeth’.

 

who have proven their loyalty till death (Rev 2:10)

Revelation 2:10 " Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

NOTHING here that only 144,000 will receive a "crown of life" or that the "crown of life" means you will rule on earth.

and serve as "kings and priests" (Rev 5:9, 10),

 

Revelation 5:9 "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

WHO is singing? Just 144,000? No. "the four beasts and four and twenty elders "

Revelation 5:10 "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Yes, God makes ALL Christians kings and priests.

will rid the earth of wickedness (Ps 37:10),

Psalm 37:10 "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Nothing here about the 144,000 ridding the earth of wickedness. How WOULD they, anyhow? Kill all the sinners? you and i better hide, then!

 

 

As expected, the watchtower has no idea about context.

They grab single verses and rip them out of context and put them together.

 

I can do the same thing.

 

"Judas went out and hung himself", "Go thou and do likewise". :P

 

Also, funny how you are NOT commenting on the JW-specific posts i am posting showing the shocking false prophecies, etc. of your organisation.

Can you please give me your view on these two quotes?

 

1983 "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

1983 "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

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On 21/07/2017 at 4:15 AM, guestman said:

Over the years, we have admitted that there were mistaken views concerning "battle of the great day of God Almighty" as well as when the Kingdom would begin operation. Being mistaken does not mean that God has rejected that organization.

 

Lets see what the BIBLE says, i think that is very important.

 

Deuteronomy 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."

Again, ADMITTING you made false prophecies does not stop you from being a false prophet!

 

Another question, which quote is correct, please?

 

Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?


Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8
No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338
Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479
No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31
Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179
No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179
Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985
No...Revelation book, page 273.

 

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15 hours ago, guestman said:

In contrast, what is the conduct of Jehovah's Witnesses ? They have remained politically neutral, though in World War I, it was unclear what Jesus meant for them to do, so some were in the military, but refused to harm anyone, just shooting in the air.

 

Again, your works are as filthy rage to God, as are mine.

 

But, if you insist on throwing stones, what about the watchtower hiding cases of child abuse?

 

Threatening people with excommunication and disfellowshipping if they go to the police?

https://www.revealnews.org/article/how-jehovahs-witnesses-leaders-hide-child-abuse-secrets-at-all-costs/

https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-witnesses-settle-lawsuit-alleging-coverup-of-child-sex-abuse/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/12/jehovahs-witnesses-under-pressure-over-handling-of-sexual-abuse-claims

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/leaders-jehovahs-witnesses-cover-child-sex-abuse/

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

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On 7/22/2017 at 11:51 AM, Blueyedjewel said:

Sadly there is a great chance of you dying in your sins because you follow a faith that denies the deity of Christ.

The days of your doctrines of demons taking innocent housewives captive have long gone. People are more educated these days.

Have you seen this scripture?

Galatians 1:8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!…

Lord I pray that any words this person puts on paper or any words that this person speaks out will fall dead to the ground. No ear will hear. The Lord rebuke all that is against the true holy gospel. In Jesus Name, Amen!

 

The ABC’s Of Salvation

A. Christ DIED for you – Romans 5:8
B. Christ PAID your sins in Full – 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:24
C. BELIEVE(Trust In Completely) on Christ ALONE for salvation – John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8,9, 1 Cor. 15:1-4
Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand! Matthew 4:17

“For the wages of sin is death(Eternal Torment In Hell & The Lake of Fire); But the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord”. Romans 6:23

IT IS THAT SIMPLE – THE GOSPEL TRUTH

Jehovah's Witnesses do believe in the "deity of Christ", that he is a god, but not the God, for Jesus said that "the Father is greater than I am" (John 14:28) as well his saying that he is "the beginning of the creation by God".(Rev 3:14) And yes, I have read Galatians 1:8, 9 many times, that clearly explains the need to be sure of what we accept as "truth" and discard that which proves otherwise.


And for a person to gain salvation, Jesus said: "Not everyone saying to me, ' Lord, Lord ', will enter the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will".(Matt 7:21) And what is God's will and who are doing it ?


The apostle Paul wrote that "God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth".(1 Tim 2:3, 4) And how is this accomplished ? Jesus said that his genuine disciples would "go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations......teaching them all the things I have commanded you".(Matt 28:19, 20)


In selecting his 12 apostles, Jesus said that they and all who became true Christians were to go to people's homes and first preach to them about God's Kingdom.(Matt 10:7) Jesus said: "Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving. When you enter the house, greet the household. If the house (individuals within the home) is deserving (by listening), let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace that from you return upon you".(Matt 10:11-13)


Are you and your religious organization going from "house to house" with "the good news of the Kingdom" (Matt 24:14; Acts 5:42), providing assistance to "people of all sorts" in order to be saved by conducting a free home Bible study with them that helps root out worldly thinking ?


Are you and your religious organization helping "people of all sorts" to make the critical changes in their personality, ' stripping off the old personality with its (wrong and immoral) practices, and clothing themselves with the new personality which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the One (Jehovah God) who created it' ?(Col 3:9, 10)


Are you and your religious organization "no part of the world" that is comprised of three main components, politics, false religions of the world, and greedy commerce ?(John 15:19) True Christians avoid any such entanglements, for James wrote: "Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God ? Whoever, therefore, wants to be friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God".(James 4:4)


Who among the churches have separated themselves from the world, practicing and teaching only "the truth" about Jehovah God ? Rather, are not doctrines such as the "Holy Trinity" as well as hellfire as well as the immortality of the soul still being taught as well as their deep participation in the political arena and love for money ("dig deep into your pockets, for God loves a cheerful giver" says religious leaders).


And Jesus did not say just to "believe", but rather he told Nicodemus: "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life".(John 3:16)


Hence, as Jesus said, it is much more than just "believing" (see James 2:17 that shows "faith by itself, without works, is dead"), but rather "only the one doing the will of my Father". Just as exercising requires work, so likewise "exercising faith" requires changing one's personality to that like Christ Jesus in loving righteousness and hating lawlessness (Heb 1:9), in doing (not just talking about it) the preaching and teaching work, in abstaining from any involvement in politics, even mentally, in removing all religious ideologies and practices that conflict with the Bible, in carrying God's name of Jehovah on their shoulders, for the apostle Paul wrote: "For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation......For (quoting from Joel 2:32) "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved".(Rom 10:10, 13)


So is it "simple" being a true Christian ? No, for Jesus said to "exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able".(Luke 13:24) Jesus further emphasized the challenge of following in his footsteps by saying: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me".(Matt 16:24)


Therefore, only a few are willing to transform their personality that Jehovah God is pleased with, making it part of their personality to make disciples, teaching others about Jehovah and be "no part of the world".(Matt 7:14)

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1 hour ago, guestman said:

Jehovah's Witnesses do believe in the "deity of Christ", that he is a god, but not the God, for Jesus said that "the Father is greater than I am" (John 14:28) as well his saying that he is "the beginning of the creation by God".(Rev 3:14) And yes, I have read Galatians 1:8, 9 many times, that clearly explains the need to be sure of what we accept as "truth" and discard that which proves otherwise.


And for a person to gain salvation, Jesus said: "Not everyone saying to me, ' Lord, Lord ', will enter the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will".(Matt 7:21) And what is God's will and who are doing it ?


The apostle Paul wrote that "God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth".(1 Tim 2:3, 4) And how is this accomplished ? Jesus said that his genuine disciples would "go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations......teaching them all the things I have commanded you".(Matt 28:19, 20)


In selecting his 12 apostles, Jesus said that they and all who became true Christians were to go to people's homes and first preach to them about God's Kingdom.(Matt 10:7) Jesus said: "Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving. When you enter the house, greet the household. If the house (individuals within the home) is deserving (by listening), let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace that from you return upon you".(Matt 10:11-13)


Are you and your religious organization going from "house to house" with "the good news of the Kingdom" (Matt 24:14; Acts 5:42), providing assistance to "people of all sorts" in order to be saved by conducting a free home Bible study with them that helps root out worldly thinking ?


Are you and your religious organization helping "people of all sorts" to make the critical changes in their personality, ' stripping off the old personality with its (wrong and immoral) practices, and clothing themselves with the new personality which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the One (Jehovah God) who created it' ?(Col 3:9, 10)


Are you and your religious organization "no part of the world" that is comprised of three main components, politics, false religions of the world, and greedy commerce ?(John 15:19) True Christians avoid any such entanglements, for James wrote: "Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God ? Whoever, therefore, wants to be friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God".(James 4:4)


Who among the churches have separated themselves from the world, practicing and teaching only "the truth" about Jehovah God ? Rather, are not doctrines such as the "Holy Trinity" as well as hellfire as well as the immortality of the soul still being taught as well as their deep participation in the political arena and love for money ("dig deep into your pockets, for God loves a cheerful giver" says religious leaders).


And Jesus did not say just to "believe", but rather he told Nicodemus: "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life".(John 3:16)


Hence, as Jesus said, it is much more than just "believing" (see James 2:17 that shows "faith by itself, without works, is dead"), but rather "only the one doing the will of my Father". Just as exercising requires work, so likewise "exercising faith" requires changing one's personality to that like Christ Jesus in loving righteousness and hating lawlessness (Heb 1:9), in doing (not just talking about it) the preaching and teaching work, in abstaining from any involvement in politics, even mentally, in removing all religious ideologies and practices that conflict with the Bible, in carrying God's name of Jehovah on their shoulders, for the apostle Paul wrote: "For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation......For (quoting from Joel 2:32) "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved".(Rom 10:10, 13)


So is it "simple" being a true Christian ? No, for Jesus said to "exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able".(Luke 13:24) Jesus further emphasized the challenge of following in his footsteps by saying: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me".(Matt 16:24)


Therefore, only a few are willing to transform their personality that Jehovah God is pleased with, making it part of their personality to make disciples, teaching others about Jehovah and be "no part of the world".(Matt 7:14)

I'm perceiving that you are thinking you are of God but your mind is formed by others telling you what God's Word says instead of God's Word Itself... Lucifer is subtle!

Quote

Jehovah's Witnesses do believe in the "deity of Christ", that he is a god, but not the God, for Jesus said that "the Father is greater than I am" (John 14:28) as well his saying that he is "the beginning of the creation by God".(Rev 3:14) And yes, I have read Galatians 1:8, 9 many times, that clearly explains the need to be sure of what we accept as "truth" and

discard that which proves otherwise.

But God's Word says

John 17:5 (KJV)

[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

This the intimate prayer between The Son and The Father, One in Essence: 'glorify thou me with thine own self', revealing this relationship was before creation ever began 'before the world was'... you see satan moved from his creative role in angelic responsibility to a place of lie saying the created could be creator! You by saying 'God' is created 'JESUS' >the same blasphemy as Lucifer<  the spirit within you urging you to think this is of God... God in Genesis 1:1 declares

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

[Ge 1:1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

As we follow the Genesis record we find God creates the place and then the 'Being' to dwell in it... we know by the Biblical process taught to us by God: thus angels had to be sometime after this begin Gen 1:1- because of the pattern set before us by God's Word... God finished creation of world >'place'< then created man! Thus because God reveals in day 1 His creation of heaven and earth and Jesus references this day as 'the glory which I had with thee before the world' places Him in the equality of 'In the beginning God' and that 'IS' The Biblical account according to Jesus The Creator God 'Jehovah'...

Quote

So is it "simple" being a true Christian ? No, for Jesus said to "exert yourselves

vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able".(Luke 13:24) Jesus further emphasized the challenge of following in his footsteps by saying: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me".(Matt 16:24)

It is written

Matthew 7:21 (KJV)

[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Lord, Lord -notice this is the door into heaven and Who 'IS' the door

John 14:6 (KJV)

[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

In God's Word your words do not exist even though you say Lord, Lord...
Love, Steven

 

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