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Paradise through Jesus


Pudgenik

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This is a matter that requires some thought. For if we are to say, you must know who Jesus is, and repent of your sins. Then you have condemned most of mankind.

And before you answer, what of the tribes in Africa before England and France and all the others who wanted colonies. What of those in Australia, before they were discovered. What of all those created "Children of God" who never got a chance.  Are they all condemned? Does our God create people only to be condemned?

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22 minutes ago, Pudgenik said:

This is a matter that requires some thought. For if we are to say, you must know who Jesus is, and repent of your sins. Then you have condemned most of mankind.

And before you answer, what of the tribes in Africa before England and France and all the others who wanted colonies. What of those in Australia, before they were discovered. What of all those created "Children of God" who never got a chance.  Are they all condemned? Does our God create people only to be condemned?

Are they condemned?  Does our God create people only to be condemned? The answer to that question is NO!

 God has revealed to mankind in His Word, His method of dealing with those who have never heard the gospel.
There are many billions of people who in the past, the present, and in the near future before Christ returns who have not and will not even hear the Name of Jesus mentioned, or the gospel preached. Central Australia, the highlands of Papua New Guinea, China, and many other nations throughout the world.

Paul stated in Rom. 2:12-16 that God will do right by every man according to the light they have received.

He said, "For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without law: and as many have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or excusing one another. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

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1 hour ago, Pudgenik said:

This is a matter that requires some thought. For if we are to say, you must know who Jesus is, and repent of your sins. Then you have condemned most of mankind.

And before you answer, what of the tribes in Africa before England and France and all the others who wanted colonies. What of those in Australia, before they were discovered. What of all those created "Children of God" who never got a chance.  Are they all condemned? Does our God create people only to be condemned?

There is the instinct of knowing what's right and wrong in every culture, tribe etc.

People having lived and died without knowledge of Jesus and God of the Hebrews, will be judged according to that standard. Each person will be judged according to their deeds.

That is what I have been taught.

Edited by HisFirst
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Every person on earth has received some light about God through nature.   Had they received that they would have been given more, but they rejected that which they did know of God and turned to animism and idolatry.  

 

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Rom 1:19  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

Rom 1:20  For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Rom 1:21  For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

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3 minutes ago, Willa said:

Every person on earth has received some light about God through nature.   Had they received that they would have been given more, but they rejected that which they did know of God and turned to animism and idolatry.  

 

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Rom 1:19  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

Rom 1:20  For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Rom 1:21  For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Yes Willa,

Every culture tribe has an instinct of a "higher power" greater than themselves - man wants to worship something.

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1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Are they condemned?  Does our God create people only to be condemned? The answer to that question is NO!

 God has revealed to mankind in His Word, His method of dealing with those who have never heard the gospel.
There are many billions of people who in the past, the present, and in the near future before Christ returns who have not and will not even hear the Name of Jesus mentioned, or the gospel preached. Central Australia, the highlands of Papua New Guinea, China, and many other nations throughout the world.

Paul stated in Rom. 2:12-16 that God will do right by every man according to the light they have received.

He said, "For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without law: and as many have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or excusing one another. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

The law that is written in thier hearts, 

Very good! You make me proud to call you my brother.

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Guest Judas Machabeus
1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Are they condemned?  Does our God create people only to be condemned? The answer to that question is NO!

 God has revealed to mankind in His Word, His method of dealing with those who have never heard the gospel.
There are many billions of people who in the past, the present, and in the near future before Christ returns who have not and will not even hear the Name of Jesus mentioned, or the gospel preached. Central Australia, the highlands of Papua New Guinea, China, and many other nations throughout the world.

Paul stated in Rom. 2:12-16 that God will do right by every man according to the light they have received.

He said, "For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without law: and as many have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or excusing one another. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

4 minutes ago, Pudgenik said:

The law that is written in thier hearts, 

Very good! You make me proud to call you my brother.

Does that mean Muslims, Budist and even Atheist can make it to paradise. If members of these groups never hear the gospel and fall under the criteria that you laid out. Are they saved or condemned? Because it's sounding to me that you're making the case that they can be saved?

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17 minutes ago, HisFirst said:

There is the instinct of knowing what's right and wrong in every culture, tribe etc.

People having lived and died without knowledge of Jesus and God of the Hebrews, will be judged according to that standard. Each person will be judged according to their deeds.

That is what I have been taught.

Answer me this, a child brought up in a tribe in Africa, in modern times. A rival gang comes with machetes and guns. Forces that child to kill his own parents. There is trauma beyond belief, scared for life. What of this innocent child. Where does your philosophy stand here?

We don't live in fantasy land, and not all situations have a rational conclusion. People are not always rational.

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1 minute ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 

Does that mean Muslims, Budist and even Atheist can make it to paradise. If members of these groups never hear the gospel and fall under the criteria that you laid out. Are they saved or condemned? Because it's sounding to me that you're making the case that they can be saved?

Have you never read in scripture, "For instance,pagans who never heard of the Law, but are lead by reason to do what the Law commands, may not actually "possess" the Law, but they can be said to "be" the Law. They can point to the substance of the Law engraved on thier hearts.

 

Yes, i am saying that all of God's created children can be saved.

Knowing the Law will not save you. It is your heart that Jesus seeks.

Love God with all your heart. Love your neighbor as yourself

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15 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 

Does that mean Muslims, Budist and even Atheist can make it to paradise. If members of these groups never hear the gospel and fall under the criteria that you laid out. Are they saved or condemned? Because it's sounding to me that you're making the case that they can be saved?

I'm not making any case for anyone to be saved, God has plainly taught that He will do good for those who have NEVER HEARD OF HIM, JESUS, OR HIS GOSPEL! Not I . . . God.

  Romans 2: 12-16;

12, For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;


13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


14, For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:


15, Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)


16, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Not only is it stated in v 7-11 that God will judge on the basis of character and conduct, but here in verse 12-16 it is stated that He will judge character and conduct the basis of light received.

In verse 12, No Mosaic law will be cited against non Jews, Not the hearers of the law and of the gospel, but the doers will be justified (v 7-11; 10:8-21; Jas. 1:21; 2:14-26; 1 John 1:7).

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:: v 14, Gentiles who are a law unto themselves will not be held accountable to any other law or be judged by any other.

V 16, "according to my gospel."  . . . According to foundations I am laying down in my gospel. God will judge all men by Jesus Christ. He will be impartial and judge on the deeds, not knowledge (v 7-11), and light, not laws men ever possessed (v 12-16).

Romans 2 : 17, Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, . . "thou art called a Jew,". . . . Paul now openly deals with the Jew asserting that his superior knowledge, privileges, and calling only serve to condemn him more that Gentiles who obey the law of nature

"restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God."  . . .  You trust in the law for your salvation.

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