How do the believers in Christ differ from Israel?

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Then you ask - Who are those who wash their robes? God`s word tells us -

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light (city), and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

So we read of the nations and their kings who are on the earth but are not in the New Jerusalem, however they can go into the city.  We are not `nations` any more but one new man with the Jews who come into the Body. 

 

Hello Marilyn,

So exactly how do you explain that since the Body started with the Jews.  The disciples were Jews, where do they fit in?  The other issue you have here in trying to separate the Jews from the Gentiles is in regards to the placement.  If the apostles are in the New Jerusalem where are the Messianic Jews?  Keep in mind that the apostles themselves were Messianic Jews, so that would mean anyone who is Jewish gets a reduced part by your theory, regardless of their standing in Christ.  This goes against the fact that God is no respecter of persons and does not show favoritism.  It also collides with the fact that Jesus was the promised Messiah to the Jews and you are separating them from Him.

 

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Note the great multitude are also called the nations but we are not.

 

The great multitude is us, they are in heaven before the Lord returns to the earth.  Only believers go to heaven, they cannot be anyone else but the saints.  Who do you think the great multitude is and what are they doing in heaven?

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

 You also said, you - know that the New Jerusalem is my inheritance. So....are you in the nations on the earth that are allowed to visit the city or are you in the city?

 

John 14: 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

 

The New Jerusalem is the place Jesus went to prepare for us, and He is speaking to the disciples, meaning it is also for them.  And where are they going to be?  Where He is, in the New Jerusalem, and so will every other believer.

[wingnut-]

35 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi wingnut,

Is Jesus a lion, a lamb, a door, a vine, an olive tree, a temple, etc. The tree of life, is a symbol, as are those others, to reveal some aspect of Christ. Now tell me, when Adam & Eve were sent from the garden, did they then have access to God as before? No, their sin made a barrier. No trees have life, only the Son, and He is a life-giving spirit.

`...The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45) 

The `tree of life,` is a symbol to represent the life of Christ that all will have access to, in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Marilyn.

 

Hello Marilyn,

Again you have no scripture to support this claim, and in fact, I just showed you scripture that disproves it.  Jesus cannot be the tree of life when the tree of life is being kept from man and Jesus is not kept from man.  You cannot show one scripture that equates Jesus to the tree of life, not one.  A symbol is only a symbol of what it is attached to, and there is no scripture to attach Jesus to the tree of life.

 

Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her;
    those who hold her fast are called blessed.

 

Here it is compared to wisdom.

 

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
    and whoever captures souls is wise.

 

Here to the fruit of the righteous.

 

Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred makes the heart sick,
    but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.

 

Here to hope.

 

Proverbs 15:4  A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit.

 

Here to the spoken word.

 

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi wingnut,

Is Jesus a lion, a lamb, a door, a vine, an olive tree, a temple, etc. The tree of life, is a symbol, as are those others, to reveal some aspect of Christ. Now tell me, when Adam & Eve were sent from the garden, did they then have access to God as before? No, their sin made a barrier. No trees have life, only the Son, and He is a life-giving spirit.

`...The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45) 

The `tree of life,` is a symbol to represent the life of Christ that all will have access to, in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Marilyn.

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

Actually, the tree of life is a LITERAL SPECIES of tree, to which Adam and Chavah ("Eve," pronounced "eh-veh" not "eev") were denied access. You're making assumptions, again, when you say, "No trees have life." Sometimes, I think we need to FORGET our "spiritualizing" ways and get back to what the BIBLE says!

Genesis 1:11-13
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
KJV

Genesis 2:8-9
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
KJV

Genesis 2:15-18
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
KJV

Genesis 3:1-3
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
KJV

Genesis 3:22-24
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims (Hebrew: hakruviym, plural of keruv with the defnite article = four-faced, four-winged bulls standing on two legs), and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
KJV

Quote

 

One can know this definition of kruviym by looking at the physical descriptions of the four living creatures in Ezekiel 1:3-14 and 10:1-20. Simply compare verses 1:10 and 10:14: "man, lion, ox, eagle" = "man, lion, keruv, eagle."

Ezekiel 1:3-14
3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
KJV

Ezekiel 10:1-20
1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.
2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight.
3 Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court.
4 Then the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory.
5 And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.
6 And it came to pass, that when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels.
7 And one cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that was between the cherubims, and took thereof, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it, and went out.
8 And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man's hand under their wings.
9 And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone.
10 And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel.
11 When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went.
12 And their whole body, and their backs, and their hands, and their wings, and the wheels, were full of eyes round about, even the wheels that they four had.
13 As for the wheels, it was cried unto them in my hearing, O wheel.
14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.
15 And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar.
16 And when the cherubims went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubims lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them.
17 When they stood, these stood; and when they were lifted up, these lifted up themselves also: for the spirit of the living creature was in them.
18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims.
19 And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above.
20 This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims.
KJV

Revelation 2:1-7
1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise (Greek: paradeisos = Hebrew: pardeec = "park [of trees]; orchard") of God.
KJV

Revelation 22:1-5
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV

Edited July 15, 2017 by Retrobyter
to add a passage I forgot

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Hello Marilyn,

Again you have no scripture to support this claim, and in fact, I just showed you scripture that disproves it.  Jesus cannot be the tree of life when the tree of life is being kept from man and Jesus is not kept from man.  You cannot show one scripture that equates Jesus to the tree of life, not one.  A symbol is only a symbol of what it is attached to, and there is no scripture to attach Jesus to the tree of life.

Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her;
    those who hold her fast are called blessed.

Here it is compared to wisdom.

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
    and whoever captures souls is wise.

Here to the fruit of the righteous.

Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred makes the heart sick,
    but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life.

Here to hope.

Proverbs 15:4  A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit.

Here to the spoken word.

 

Oh bless you dear bro, you have found the scriptures that reveal what the `tree of life is.` Let us compare these scriptures with Christ.

1. Proverbs 3: 18 calls the tree of life, `wisdom.` (v. 13)

`But He answered and said to them......The Queen of the South ....came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.` (Matt. 12: 42)

`But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us WISDOM` from God.....` (1 Cor. 1: 30)

 

2. Proverbs 11: 30 calls the fruit of the tree of life, `righteousness.`

`But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - and RIGHTEOUSNESS, and sanctification and redemption - that as it is written, "He who glories, let Him glory in the Lord.` (1 Cor. 1: 30 & 31)

 

3. Proverbs 13: 12 calls the tree of life, `hope.`

`To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST in you , the HOPE of glory.` (Col. 1: 27)

 

4. Proverbs 15: 4 calls the tree of life, a wholesome tongue.

`The Lord God has given me (Christ) the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak...` (Isa. 50: 4)

`"No man spoke like this man!"  (John 7: 46)

`it is the Spirit who gives LIFE; the flesh profits nothing. The WORDS that I speak to you are spirit, and they are LIFE.` (John 6: 63)

It is Christ who is our `wisdom, righteousness, our hope, who gives us wholesome speech.` These are all spiritual attributes that feed our spirits. (Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.)

May we together, bro, find the truth. Blessings, Marilyn.

[Sister]

Hi Wingnut

I see the tree of life being Christ also.

It's hard to explain but I'll try.

The tree of life in the garden was "the Word of God" before he was made flesh.

That tree was made of "spirit". (God's Word is spirit)

It was guarded by angels because in God's plans, no man could have access of this tree until the Word was made flesh, die and be risen again.  After Christ was resurrected, that tree was Christ.  It's the same Word of God, and if we eat of this tree we will find life.  Only Christ can give us to eat of this tree which is The Word of God.  The Word of God is still guarded.  Not just anyone can come and eat of the fruits, ie, receive all the treasures of wisdom that the Word teaches.  Christ, who goes straight through the heart, sees who are the real sheep, and he feeds them.  He doesn't give all these treasures to anyone, only the sincere.

So if we are sincere, we are eating of this tree now which is Christ, the Word of God.  After the resurrection, he will give us everything and open our understanding even more to continue eating of this tree forever.

That's how I understand it brother.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Sister

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Hello Marilyn,

So exactly how do you explain that since the Body started with the Jews.  The disciples were Jews, where do they fit in?  The other issue you have here in trying to separate the Jews from the Gentiles is in regards to the placement.  If the apostles are in the New Jerusalem where are the Messianic Jews?  Keep in mind that the apostles themselves were Messianic Jews, so that would mean anyone who is Jewish gets a reduced part by your theory, regardless of their standing in Christ.  This goes against the fact that God is no respecter of persons and does not show favoritism.  It also collides with the fact that Jesus was the promised Messiah to the Jews and you are separating them from Him.

The great multitude is us, they are in heaven before the Lord returns to the earth.  Only believers go to heaven, they cannot be anyone else but the saints.  Who do you think the great multitude is and what are they doing in heaven?

Hi wingnut,

You are asking very profound questions that need to be carefully looked at. I am at the moment preparing a new blog series on just those questions. So perhaps we can talk more after you read the notes. They are not ready yet, but hopefully soon.

regards, Marilyn.

[wingnut-]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

May we together, bro, find the truth.

 

50 minutes ago, Sister said:

I see the tree of life being Christ also.

 

Ok sisters, I will post this and really have nothing more to add on the matter, people can choose for themselves.

 

Genesis 3:22  And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

 

Genesis 3:24  After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

The tree of life is inaccessible to man, man must not be allowed to take from the tree of life and eat.  This has not changed since the fall of man, there is no getting around this, no scripture to support it.  The two verses above from Genesis cannot be reconciled to your claim, ignoring what they say does not make this theory believable. 

 

Revelation 2:7  Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

Revelation 22:14  “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

 

Only the one who is victorious is given the right to the tree of life, so how does one gain victory?  You cannot claim Jesus is the one who gives us victory and at the same time claim to have been denied access to Him until after the new age.  The victorious one cannot eat from the tree of life until afterward, in eternity, post-millennium, post-judgement, etc.   You cannot have washed your robes without Jesus, it is only His blood that purifies us, so how does one wash their robe to have the right to the tree of life if the tree of life is the one whose blood your robes are washing in?

 

Basically what you are falling for here is a gnostic teaching, the same trick Eve fell for in the garden.  Only Jesus atones for sin, only His blood washes your robe and makes you victorious, and these two things are required prior to gaining access to the tree of life.  Thus, eliminating your claim as being even remotely possible.  The victory is in Him, not in ourselves, and these verses here are the key to understanding the truth on the matter.  You are both putting the cart in front of the horse, you really need to pay close attention to precisely what these verses in this post say.

God bless

[Sister]

3 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Genesis 3:22  And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Hi wingut

Not ganging up on you brother, promise.  I've known this for a long time and rejoiced when I discovered it.  It's very deep, because it's going into the spiritual aspect of it.

So I see where you are coming from, and how you see it, you are very wise, but this was spoken in the beginning.  There would be no access to the tree of life for any man until Christ comes in the flesh.  Then the door is opened, but not before then.

3 hours ago, wingnut- said:

The tree of life is inaccessible to man, man must not be allowed to take from the tree of life and eat.  This has not changed since the fall of man, there is no getting around this, no scripture to support it.  The two verses above from Genesis cannot be reconciled to your claim, ignoring what they say does not make this theory believable. 

We can access that tree of life now, because Christ has invited us to.  If we are following the Word of God, we are eating of that tree.  The fruits are the "meat" (spiritual food) that gives life.

 John 6:27   Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

He explains it in quite a few different ways, but all the same.

The meat is everything.  The true doctrine of the kingdom of heaven.  All the wisdom and hidden knowledge (from the world) is in this meat.  Only those who are "sealed" are given this meat (to eat of the tree of life)

The meat that comes down from heaven, and the bread which is Christ, and the tree of life are all the same thing.  God wants us to eat the Word of God,...take it in, chew on it, let it digest, by washing it down with some water......be given understanding.

3 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Only the one who is victorious is given the right to the tree of life, so how does one gain victory?  You cannot claim Jesus is the one who gives us victory and at the same time claim to have been denied access to Him until after the new age.  The victorious one cannot eat from the tree of life until afterward, in eternity, post-millennium, post-judgement, etc.   You cannot have washed your robes without Jesus, it is only His blood that purifies us, so how does one wash their robe to have the right to the tree of life if the tree of life is the one whose blood your robes are washing in?

There are "many" christians who are not doing the right thing.  Christ knows them.  They may go to church, sing hymns, let the pastor read a few verses, then go home and forget about it all.  Many are not reading and seeking the scriptures, getting excited like some of us, trying to get better understanding, No, many are lazy and letting the church do all that work for them.  They are not labouring in God's field, not reaping all the treasures of truth because there is no hunger.  If we are not hungry, we don't eat, and could be force fed something that's not good. If they are taught the wrong doctrine, they will be teaching it to others, and not walking according to the truth.  Their robes will be dirty, because this is a kingdom of truth we dwell in.

But, if they overcome when their big trial comes, and die with just that faith, ...not much knowledge but enough to get them through.....they will still be saved, .......but because they missed out on all the wisdom and understanding the tree of life gives (the Word of God), during their walk, they will be corrected and filled with all that sound doctrine at the resurrection.  They will not miss out.

So there are those eating of the tree of life now, the ones who have received the true doctrine or still learning it, who have overcome the hard trials given to them already, and who are being fed, versus those without knowledge, having only faith and nothing else, havn't had many trials, or persecutions for the Lords sake,.... these have one more chance to overcome when the BIG TRIAL actually comes, you know what I mean, ..they will then eat of the tree of life at the resurrection, and learn the whole truth then.  Their robes will be washed white when they are given that one last chance and persevere until the end, and then there's the new comers also who come in at the last hour who didn't have enough time left to learn the whole doctrine of truth,...these also will not miss out.

That's how I see it.  I hope this makes sense.

 

 

 

 

[wingnut-]

15 hours ago, Sister said:

There would be no access to the tree of life for any man until Christ comes in the flesh.  Then the door is opened, but not before then.

 

So then how did Enoch please God so much that He took him?  Enoch came between the garden and Christ coming in the flesh, impossible.  Not to mention you are now excluding all the OT saints, the prophets, etc.

 

15 hours ago, Sister said:

We can access that tree of life now, because Christ has invited us to.  If we are following the Word of God, we are eating of that tree.  The fruits are the "meat" (spiritual food) that gives life.

 

No, we are not eating of that tree, you are not reading what is said in Genesis.

 

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

The tree of life was hidden for what reason?  So Adam and Eve could not eat of it and live forever, because they had sinned, and that sin required payment.  If the tree of life were Jesus then it would not have been removed, it is removed because from that point on the flesh was denied eternal life.  Otherwise God would have said to them, "Here, you better eat this fruit or your doomed."  It is completely contradictory to this gnostic approach which tries to steal God's glory and base salvation on the works of man.  As I said before, it is the same lie they fell for from the serpent in the first place.

Jesus IS NOT hidden from man, you did not have to get past cherubim and a flaming sword to get to Him.

I would also like to add this in here, if you are going to try and spiritualize the tree of life, then how do you handle the other tree from the garden?  What does the tree of knowledge of good and evil become?  Did the serpent cut little pieces off himself and say here Adam and Eve, have a little taste of the serpent so you can become like gods?

15 hours ago, Sister said:

Only those who are "sealed" are given this meat (to eat of the tree of life)

 

Still trying to put the cart in front of the horse.  You cannot save yourself, you cannot seal yourself, the seal comes after you come to Jesus, not before.  The seal is being born again, and you cannot be born again on your own.

 

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

And let me remind you again where the tree of life is found.

 

Revelation 2:7  He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

 

What scripture is abundantly clear on, is that the tree of life is in the paradise of God, New Jerusalem, and only those who have accepted Jesus can enter that city and have access to it.

 

Revelation 22:14  Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

 

You have to wash your robe first, belief in Jesus gives the right to the tree of life and entry into the city, not the other way around.

 

15 hours ago, Sister said:

But, if they overcome

 

That's exactly the problem with the entire line of thought here, man cannot overcome, the victory is in Jesus, not man.  This is precisely what makes this gnostic teaching.

 

Romans 3:10  as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

 

Romans 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
    and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

 

15 hours ago, Sister said:

Many are not reading and seeking the scriptures

 

Agreed, but what good does scripture do if one simply explains away the plain meaning of it and constructs something of their own.  I don't and never will subscribe to the thought of a complicated God who gives us His word and makes it incomprehensible.  Particularly when He tells us to come as little children.  So I'll just leave the thread now, no point in going in circles, you all can carry on.

God bless