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What is free will really, what does it mean to have free will?


Omegaman 3.0

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13 minutes ago, WalkingMyFishLikeABoss said:

I would agree we have to assume responsibility for our actions. However, God's omniscience, and predeterminism, predestination of all things , to me seems as if we're stepping in footprints throughout our life that God has already set down. And how we respond is the test.

The only issues I have with Calvinism is that those who logically follow the doctrine end up pairing God's sovereignty with existence of sin.... and that is blasphemous and probably will be considered the unpardonable sin as this mimics blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. I had people tell me God created sin for His purpose - whoa!!! God has made Himself clear on this point -sin- has absolutely nothing of God in it! It is solely the devils effort in rebellion to God's Sovereign nature....   

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11 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

The only issues I have with Calvinism is that those who logically follow the doctrine end up pairing God's sovereignty with existence of sin.... and that is blasphemous and probably will be considered the unpardonable sin as this mimics blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. I had people tell me God created sin for His purpose - whoa!!! God has made Himself clear on this point -sin- has absolutely nothing of God in it! It is solely the devils effort in rebellion to God's Sovereign nature....   

I'm not a Calvinist.

To continue. When God is sovereign how can I believe I can do anything that God hasn't predetermined and predestined when his word says that is what he has done? And before he created anything at all. Would I not be denying God's power and insulting the holy spirit that is God if I thought for a moment my will be done on earth?

Also, when God is the first cause or creator of all that is, alpha unto omega, no thing that is, is, unless God created it so. Sin is merely the violation of the rules God set forth. However, God has told us he is the evil and the good. The darkness and the light. God created Lucifer from his own power and essence. God's omniscience would have foreseen all that Lucifer was because all that Lucifer could ever be was created to be by the creator of all that is.

Reading the scriptures for what they're telling me and accepting them for what they mean to impart as God's message doesn't make someone a Calvinist. It makes them a Bible reading realist. :)

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15 minutes ago, WalkingMyFishLikeABoss said:

I'm not a Calvinist.

To continue. When God is sovereign how can I believe I can do anything that God hasn't predetermined and predestined when his word says that is what he has done? And before he created anything at all. Would I not be denying God's power and insulting the holy spirit that is God if I thought for a moment my will be done on earth?

Also, when God is the first cause or creator of all that is, alpha unto omega, no thing that is, is, unless God created it so. Sin is merely the violation of the rules God set forth. However, God has told us he is the evil and the good. The darkness and the light. God created Lucifer from his own power and essence. God's omniscience would have foreseen all that Lucifer was because all that Lucifer could ever be was created to be by the creator of all that is.

Reading the scriptures for what they're telling me and accepting them for what they mean to impart as God's message doesn't make someone a Calvinist. It makes them a Bible reading realist. :)

there is no Scripture that supports this...

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Interesting

1 John 1:5 (KJV)

[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

 

 

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While it is true that God created Lucifer, it does NOT follow that God created sin. Lucifer appropriated for himself, that which belonged to God and it was his pride that led to his downfall. At that time, apparently, angels had some form of choice or free will because 1/3 of the entire universe of angels chose to follow Satan. God cast them out of heaven and prepared the Lake of Fire for them to reside during eternity.

Now, I am not theologian enough to argue the fine points of God creating sin, but I agree with those who indicate that there is NO sin in God. Man, having been given free will, does have the authority to either agree with God's plan or disagree with it and disobey it.  It is wrong to assume that God already knows what we will do, so we don't really have any choices. We can continually choose wrong and God's grace has still provided a way back through Christ....until the fullness of time when He closes the door on the Age of grace, then the Blood of Christ will have had its full effectiveness. At that time, there will only be judgment left to those who have not believed.

Since God has given man free will, to me that means each day I have a choice to obey God or disobey God. My choices are based upon what God is doing in my heart. If I am growing in faith, then my choices will agree with His Word and His Will and I reap the benefits of obedience. If not, I reap the consequences of disobedience. God's grace and foreknowledge allow me the freedom to make those choices (or not) so that from my perspective, each day is a new experience. If I become to dogmatic about predestination, then I become the opposite of joyous because I have begun to believe that no matter what I do, God has it under control and that is lazy thinking. It presumes upon God to keep me straight and it also presumes to give Him my free will decisions and become nothing more than an automaton....who has no choice. That is not the position of dominion that God decreed when He created man in His image.

If I come into the presence of God with sin, I will either bow my knee and repent or I will be judged and expelled. But the choice of condition is mine alone. Thank God for Jesus, who redeemed me.

 

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1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

there is no Scripture that supports this...

Genesis and Isaiah 45 and Ezekiel 28

Edited by WalkingMyFishLikeABoss
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On 7/13/2017 at 1:34 PM, enoob57 said:

The only issues I have with Calvinism is that those who logically follow the doctrine end up pairing God's sovereignty with existence of sin

and the problem I have with a statement like that, is that it makes you the judge of what is logical. I consider myself to be logical, and I do not come to any such conclusion.

Of course, that even needs qualification. God's sovereignty is related to the existence of sin, as long as one understands, that the fact that God sovereignly allowed (and still does allow) sin, it does not mean than He created or caused sin. God made the creation, He created the environment, and He created beings, who sin.

Without firearms, no one would be shot with a gun. That does not mean, that the maker of a firearm, is responsible for how others abuse them.

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On 7/14/2017 at 1:17 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

and the problem I have with a statement like that, is that it makes you the judge of what is logical. I consider myself to be logical, and I do not come to any such conclusion.

Of course, that even needs qualification. God's sovereignty is related to the existence of sin, as long as one understands, that the fact that God sovereignly allowed (and still does allow) sin, it does not mean than He created or caused sin. God made the creation, He created the environment, and He created beings, who sin.

Without firearms, no one would be shot with a gun. That does not mean, that the maker of a firearm, is responsible for how others abuse them.

Until you stand where the Bible tells you to stand your going to have an opinion that passes away...
There is no created place for sin but hell and therefore sin has no place but there... God has no part with it and tells us to give it no place

Ephesians 4:27 (KJV)

[27] Neither give place to the devil.

It is not complicated sin is a perversion-> an a abomination that the devil himself fabricated within himself in order to become a god to himself and all that will follow him... We who are born into the light should understand the light and the obedience therein

1 John 1:5 (KJV)

[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

This is my stand... and any that give created place to sin is in darkness still... two things God has done with sin: created hell for it's keeping and set a time where it will be swallowed up into eternity with His wrath alone burning without mercy and end! God has no part with the existence of satan's lie it is born out of the being of Lucifer who was not created as such

Ezekiel 28:15 (KJV)

[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

To give God His Sovereignty due Him is to stand where His Word says to stand and any and all thought is to be brought under The Word's control

2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV)

[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

 

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On July 12, 2017 at 0:01 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I have a peculiar way of examining scripture. I do not go looking for a verse to support a postion, I have rules that I follow. The rules may not be right, but they are my rules, lol.

So, one of the rules that I follow, that also helps with the above facts, is always read scripture in it's context. Who is being spoken to, what is the subject, etc.

In the context of 2 Peter 3:9, the subject is NOT salvation, it is the 2nd coming of Christ. The people being spoken to, are not just anyone, they are believers. Bring those ideas along for the ride as you think about 2 Pet 3:9.

As I see 2 Pet 3:9 personally, we have two choices. One choice is all means everyone everywhere, the other is that all means all of a limited group.

If it means all people, then we have a God, who cannot accomplish His own will. I do not find that concept in scripture. Either He chose all, and lost some, of He chose some, and lost none of them.

From what I have said here, is it not fair to say, that 2 Pet 3:9, has too much wiggle room to make a proof text for the idea that God really desires everyone to come to repentance? I not only do not think it requires that, but I think that understanding makes it conflict with other passages, and so, that understanding should (in my opinion)  be rejected.

Thanks mega, I did do a quick search for that verse, "cherry pick", so when I read your response I thought this is a great learning opportunity for me.  I seem to remember reading this verse debated here at worthy, so I spent some time, yet I fail to follow how "should perish, but that all should come to repentance" is not indicating God does desire all to come to Him, yet he gives them the choice.  

1 Timothy 2:4  who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Ez 33:11  Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

I do not see that God chose all, and lost them.  I see God's heart is for all to come to Him, yet many reject Him.  

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17 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Until you stand where the Bible tells you to stand your going to have an opinion that passes away...
There is no created place for sin but hell and therefore sin has no place but there... God has no part with it and tells us to give it no place

Ephesians 4:27 (KJV)

[27] Neither give place to the devil.

It is not complicated sin is a perversion-> an a abomination that the devil himself fabricated within himself in order to become a god to himself and all that will follow him... We who are born into the light should understand the light and the obedience therein

1 John 1:5 (KJV)

[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

This is my stand... and any that give created place to sin is in darkness still... two things God has done with sin: created hell for it's keeping and set a time where it will be swallowed up into eternity with His wrath alone burning without mercy and end! God has no part with the existence of satan's lie it is born out of the being of Lucifer who was not created as such

Ezekiel 28:15 (KJV)

[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

To give God His Sovereignty due Him is to stand where His Word says to stand and any and all thought is to be brought under The Word's control

2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV)

[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

 

Truly, I do not have a clue what it is, that you just said. It almost sounds as it you are denying that sin even exists!

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