Suicide

[HAZARD]

3 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I don't recall ever saying that I had all the answers.  I do not.  2 Corinthians 7:10 is not the issue.  The issue, that you still have not dealt with, is that you are making judgement calls you can't make.  Can you actually address that?  Feints and rabbit trails don't work with me.

And neither does everyone who commits suicide but you seem to be saying they do.

You make out you have all the answer's, yet you seem reluctant to answer my Scriptural question.

"And neither does everyone who commits suicide but you seem to be saying they do."

Any Scriptures to support your take on this?

I never said "EVERYONE." I said those who brood over their sin instead of repenting and deliberately murder themselves to avoid punishment or find an easy way out.

 

[HAZARD]

On ‎15‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 9:51 AM, Cobalt1959 said:

No, again a false statement.  I did not "make out" that I had all the answers to anything.  I brought up a valid point about your post which you steadfastly refuse to deal with.

You clearly stated that you knew the person you were talking about felt no guilt or remorse for his actions and simply killed himself to keep from going to jail.  I asked you to explain exactly how you knew that.  You have not done so.  You need to to go any further and I will not travel down a side trail in regards to scripture or anything else.

Tell me how you knew this particular person had no remorse for his actions.  Your last statement above pretty much demands an explanation.

God forgives all past sins repented of. He cannot forgive self murder after the fact. One cannot repent after death.

[missmuffet]

On 7/11/2017 at 1:33 PM, Luiz Valente said:

Hi, if I Suicide being a non christian i will face the wrath of God and the lake of fire or simpy cease to exist?

 

I don't know. Suicide is murder and that is one of the ten commandments. Thou shall not kill. If you are not a believer in Jesus Christ when you die your soul would immediately go to Hades which is a holding place for when you would be finally judged at the Great White Throne judgment. Then you would be thrown in to hell which is the everlasting conscience torment and wrath for unbelievers.

[HAZARD]

King Saul, who was once in God's favour or grace and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed because of sin (1 Chron. 10:13-14). He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal life (1 Sam.28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21).

To argue that he was never a saved man is to demonstrate ignorance of Bible truth. "God gave him another heart . . . and the Spirit of God came upon him and he prophesied (1 Sam. 9-13). If this was not an experience of a saved man then it was nothing. It is also recorded how the Spirit of God left him when he sinned (1 Sam. 12-13). He went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11). He was a humble and Godly man to begin with, but he did not end up this way (1 Sam. 10:21-24).

Judas, the apostle Judas is an outstanding example of a man once saved who was lost because of sin. In Scripture we have statements that Judas was to be a man who was a "familiar friend" of Christ who ate of His bread which is an idiom of close friendship (Ps. 41:9) v.9, "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."

He was not an enemy of Christ, but an equal in grace, a guide, and a sweet acquaintance (Ps. 55:12-13) v. 12, For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:

v. 13, But it was thou, a man, mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.

He was to have his habitation desolate and be blotted out of the book of the living(Ps. 69:25-28 with Acts 1:20), and he was to have "another take his place" in the Christian ministry and in the kingship over one of the tribes of Israel (Ps. 109:8). These passages were fulfilled in Judas according to Matt.26:24; John 13:18; Acts 1:16-25.

In Matt 10 we have the facts recorded that Judas as one of the "twelve disciples" received power over demons, sickness and disease and a call to preach the gospel. Of these twelve (Judas included) it is said that Christ gave them power and sent them forth, and commanded them to preach, and to heal the sick. Christ said to Judas and all the twelve, "freely ye have received, freely give. . . . I send you forth as sheep . . . it shall not be ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you" (Matt. 10:1-20. These statements prove that Judas was once a chosen and genuine apostle. In Mark 6:7-13 we read that the twelve (Judas included) went "forth two by two . . . and preached that men should repent. And they (Judas included) cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them.

The Holy Spirit through Luke records that Judas "by transgression fell" (Acts 1:15-25) and we should believe what the Holy Spirit tells us in Luke. It was not until the last supper that the devil entered into Judas, that is became united with him in the same crime. It was two days before the Passover that he put it in the heart of Judas to go to the enemies of Jesus to betray Him into their hands (Matt. 26:1-5, 14-16; John 13:2).It was at this time he openly broke with Christ and sought opportunity to betray Him.

Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayed (Matt. 27:3-5). He could have repented and been forgiven as any of the others who cursed, denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide.

It was because he committed suicide rather than truly repent that he was lost.

He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal life (1 Sam.28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21).

[Unfailing Presence]

Suicide , is sin .

Nothing more , nothing less .

In the overwhelming majority  of  cases  suicide  boils down to selfishness and other associated sins at it's root .

Once accepting This Jesus as Savior we still sin ,  the difference being that where we once ran to sin ,  now we run away from it .

Yet on occasion sin still manages to  run us down and we yield to it .

I yielded to it yesterday in the form of anger .

That being said I will say that anyone who continually contemplates any particular sin , suicide included , is in need of serious self-examination regarding their 

love & trust of Jesus  Christ .

That is the clincher for all ! 

Not what particular sin you have or will commit .

                                                "  To them that love God "  ,  we need not fume or fret about how things will turn out .

To them that love Him, in the midst of sickness or health , defeat or victory , adversity or prosperity , the blossom of a life changed by Jesus will continue to 

mature and blossom .

Receive Him , taste and see that the Lord is always good .

Edited July 15, 2017 by Unfailing Presence

[hmbld]

On July 13, 2017 at 9:31 PM, HAZARD said:

Father in Heaven, in the Name of Jesus, please forgive me all of my past sins, and especially any I may unknowingly commit during this day.

Its a prayer that can be repeated every day, morning noon and night. With the help of the Holy Spirit any true believer and follower of Christ will not "UNKNOWINGLY" commit too many sins.

 

 Tell me, do you know what this Scripture teaches?

1 Corinthians 2:9, But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

If the works of saying this prayer, saved me, then anyone who commits suicide may have said the same prayer 10 times that day, making your judgement of their going to hell, false.  But we know works do not save us, faith does.  If I am covered by the blood of Jesus, I still have the battle between flesh and spirit, they are at war, so it would be possible for me to be angry with someone, and suddenly die without having time to repent.  You are claiming I am not covered by the blood of Jesus, unless I perform the work of repenting.  Seems that would be relying on myself for salvation.  I have already repented, the Holy Spirit draws me to repent throughout my life, yet scripture tells me it is faith that has saved me.  

No, I do not know why you included 1 Cor 2:9?

[HAZARD]

9 hours ago, hmbld said:

If the works of saying this prayer, saved me, then anyone who commits suicide may have said the same prayer 10 times that day, making your judgement of their going to hell, false.  But we know works do not save us, faith does.  If I am covered by the blood of Jesus, I still have the battle between flesh and spirit, they are at war, so it would be possible for me to be angry with someone, and suddenly die without having time to repent.  You are claiming I am not covered by the blood of Jesus, unless I perform the work of repenting.  Seems that would be relying on myself for salvation.  I have already repented, the Holy Spirit draws me to repent throughout my life, yet scripture tells me it is faith that has saved me.  

No, I do not know why you included 1 Cor 2:9?

Here is the prayer I said regarding repentance;

Quote

"Father in Heaven, in the Name of Jesus, please forgive me all of my past sins, and especially any I may unknowingly commit during this day.

Its a prayer that can be repeated every day, morning noon and night. With the help of the Holy Spirit any true believer and follower of Christ will not "UNKNOWINGLY" commit too many sins."

I said it could be said any time during the day or night. I said forgiveness can be asked for any sins one may "Unknowingly" make."[/quote].

Suicide is not a sin one commits unknowingly, with out some planning of how, where and when.

One is short of cash. A person cannot ask God to forgive him for robbing a bank, then go ahead and rob it and keep the money

One cannot do this, he wants or needs a new car so  he ask's God, "Please forgive me God for stealing this car," then go ahead and steal it, and keep it.

One cannot pray, God forgive me for burning down my neighbours house, and then go ahead and burn it down.

Just the same, one cannot pray God, "God, I'm in serious trouble, I have done this, this and this, pleas forgive me," Ok, God forgives the sins confessed,  and then the sinner broods over his sins and go's ahead and murder him self.

That's an additional sin, "murder." Now how does on ask forgiveness for that when dead?

Murder is sin, not question about it and murderers will have no part in Heaven.

Rev 21:8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,  and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

King Saul knew it was wrong to kill himself because he told his armour bearer to kill him. The armour bearer refused so Saul then decided to kill himself.

 

[HAZARD]

On ‎15‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 2:33 PM, Cobalt1959 said:

M.O.T.S.

Long-winded diatribes that do nothing to actually explain to me what I asked you to explain.  And swapping scriptures mid-stream.  You talk about 2 Corinthians 7:10 and now you introduce John 3:8 as another feint and then tell me I have no idea what any scripture means. Insults are not a substitute for a clear explanation of what you said before.  Rabbit trails and character assassination that are only meant to lead away from your original statement, which I will keep pointing you back to, no matter what you type will not work.

The guy you describe, and are obviously personally bitter with is a scumbag.  No debate there.   Not the problem here.  You can continue describing him and his actions in repeatedly worse and more condemning terms and that does absolutely nothing to explain your earlier judgments about him.  Judgments you cannot make.  This is the crux of the problem.  

I ask again.  How do you know, personally, that this person you are talking about had no remorse for his actions before he died?  He could have been cursing God as he died.  H could have been asking God for forgiveness.  You claim you already have what he was doing figured out and already told us what it was.  Based on . . . what?

Pretty simple question.  The answer should be pretty simple to provide.

I'm still waiting.

 

More Of The Same?

How about a Scripture, even just one to support your stance?

Quote

"Long-winded diatribes that do nothing to actually explain to me what I asked you to explain. . . . Insults are not a substitute for a clear explanation of what you said before.  Rabbit trails and character assassination that are only meant to lead away from your original statement, which I will keep pointing you back to, no matter what you type will not work."

And you didn't insult me earlier?

Whether he had remorse or not, one cannot ask God to forgive one's self for a sin not yet committed. Sure he could have had remorse for the sins he committed against his family and others, but to ask God to forgive him for killing himself before he does kill himself, and then goes ahead and kills one's self is not what repentance is about.

You cannot ask God to forgive a particular sin, or several sins and then go ahead and commit them. To ask forgiveness for sins committed is to ask forgiveness and then one must strive to stay out of the sin business with all ones heart and mind, not continue in them thinking one is forgiven anyway.

One cannot pray, "God forgive me for stealing this brand new car, expect to be forgiven, and then go ahead and steal the car. One cannot pray, "God forgive me for robbing this bank, and expect to be forgiven and then go rob the bank.

One cannot pray, "God forgive me of all the sins I have committed during my past life, which God will do!" and go on and pray, "and God please forgive me of all the sins I know I will commit during the rest of my life," and then go on and live in sin believing one is forgiven. Then some time later, having remorse for living a life of sin, pray, "God forgive me for murdering myself because of the sins I have committed." That's saying, Christs sacrifice can not possibly cover all my sins.

That's a slap in the face of Jesus Christ, who gave His life to cover our sins. Nothing one can do will ever replace this sacrifice. Self murder is only adding to a life of sin, and after murdering one's self, how can one possibly repent of that sin from the grave?

Revelation 21:8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,  and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Try asking forgiveness from there?

Do you get it now?

As an aside,

I'm still waiting for your answer to John 3:8  Any born again believer in Christ should have at least a clue

 

 

[HAZARD]

God forgives all past sins repented of. God cannot forgive self murder after the fact.

[Sammaiel]

To answer the OP question, every christian will obviously answer you'll face the wrath of their God.

If you ask me, no. But you will lose your life. Not a good deal.