theokayman1 Posted July 16, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/13/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2017 Because it says in this verse here: Ecclesiastes 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, / but the dead know nothing; / they have no further reward, / and even their name is forgotten.” Is it true that you don't go to heaven when we die but we are just dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted July 16, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.34 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted July 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Yowm said: As time went on God revealed more and more about the afterlife. Here you see the dead are very aware of their surroundings... "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'" (Luk 16:19-31) OR how bout Samuel who saul had used a witch to raise from the dead.............. What do you see asked saul.....................i see men as gods rising and etc.........and their is one with a mantle.............IT was saul. Saul was not too pleased though. WHY have you disquieted ME........... Soothsaying is of the devil, but it is real. it can be done........but we cannotpartake of any communication with the dead nor those who do such things can we participate with or in it. Darn...............has anyone warned the catholics yet about not praying to the dead, nor saints, nor mary but to GOD only. IF not i think we should . Anyway , not to get off subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted July 16, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.34 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just now, frienduff thaylorde said: OR how bout Samuel who saul had used a witch to raise from the dead.............. What do you see asked saul.....................i see men as gods rising and etc.........and their is one with a mantle.............IT was saul. Saul was not too pleased though. WHY have you disquieted ME........... Soothsaying is of the devil, but it is real. it can be done........but we cannotpartake of any communication with the dead nor those who do such things can we participate with or in it. Darn...............has anyone warned the catholics yet about not praying to the dead, nor saints, nor mary but to GOD only. IF not i think we should . Anyway , not to get off subject. It was samule. however the point was made. Gods time is not TIME as we know it. That is truth. Its a time that just always was is and will be. i think this is why so many get confused about what happens at death or where paul also said the dead in Christ will rise first then we will be caught up with them. Gods time is not as our time. It just IS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted July 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2017 58 minutes ago, theokayman1 said: Because it says in this verse here: Ecclesiastes 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, / but the dead know nothing; / they have no further reward, / and even their name is forgotten.” Is it true that you don't go to heaven when we die but we are just dead? When a believer dies their soul goes immediately to heaven. Their body remains in the grave until it is resurrected. When a nonbeliever dies their soul immediately to Hades. Their soul remains in the grave until it is resurrected at the last of the 1000 year millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted July 17, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2017 So on account of one parable, which clearly does not teach instant transportation into heaven or hell, (what kind of heaven is it that is within talking distance to the lost, and does a soul really have a tongue, and a finger) we proclaim Solomon,under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, was wrong? One must bear in mind that Solomon wasn't the only one in the OT to teach that when one dies, one does in fact die. In fact, the only person in the OT that taught man did not die, was Satan. And almost the entire Christian church, which claims the OT scriptures to be inspired, disbelieves the words and testimony of the prophets, and believes the father of lies! Why is it that Christians are so determined to believe such tradition in direct opposition to God's word? Oh, and to clear up another confusion. If you believe God's word that people do in fact actually die, you will better understand the story of Saul and Samuel, and incidentally, every other report, story, tale, and encounter with so-called spirits of the dead purporting to be human spirits. LIES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted July 17, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, theokayman1 said: Because it says in this verse here: Ecclesiastes 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, / but the dead know nothing; / they have no further reward, / and even their name is forgotten.” Is it true that you don't go to heaven when we die but we are just dead? I think you have to keep in mind what Solomon was writing about in Ecclesiastes ....the frustrations and frivolousness of the pursuits of this world and that all the concerns of this world......mean nothing when we die. Doesn't matter if you were the worlds smartest person like Solomon,it counts for nothing when you're dead, when you die it goes with you and eventually you won;t even be remembered. So whats the big deal about worldly pursuits Taking this passage by itself without understanding the root of Solomon's message could easily cause us to think differently. I suggest reading the chapter before and after to understand what he is talking about and in the context it was intended. The dead know nothing.....they are of no help in this world. They have no further reward.....in this world (they are no longer a part of it) Just an aside; Solomon's writing causes me to ask...What will I do with my life that will leave a legacy, that will leave something lasting. It seems that Solomon is saying that chasing worldly things is like chasing after the wind. It really leaves me thinking that the only thing that can create a lasting memory is having a spiritual effect in peoples lives Edited July 17, 2017 by Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,848 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,758 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Mike 2 said: I think you have to keep in mind what Solomon was writing about in Ecclesiastes ....the frustrations and frivolousness of the pursuits of this world and that all the concerns of this world......mean nothing when we die. Doesn't matter if you were the worlds smartest person like Solomon,it counts for nothing when you're dead, when you die it goes with you and eventually you won;t even be remembered. So whats the big deal about worldly pursuits Taking this passage by itself without understanding the root of Solomon's message could easily cause us to think differently. I suggest reading the chapter before and after to understand what he is talking about and in the context it was intended. The dead know nothing.....they are of no help in this world. They have no further reward.....in this world (they are no longer a part of it) Just an aside; Solomon's writing causes me to ask...What will I do with my life that will leave a legacy, that will leave something lasting. It seems that Solomon is saying that chasing worldly things is like chasing after the wind. It really leaves me thinking that the only thing that can create a lasting memory is having a spiritual effect in peoples lives You are the only one, who tried to explain what Solomon wrote in his philosophical mood. I think you have done an excellent job. I don't believe for a moment that Solomon was addressing the question of the OP. Solomon never bosted that he is an authority in matters pertaining to life after death. First we must keep in mind that Solomon lived before JESUS CHRIST. And we should look as to what the Jewish people believed in matters regarding life after death. The Jews believed that when they died no one of them goes to Heaven. By saying In Heaven, we mean to ascent. They believed the same thing David the Father of Solomon believed. The word is "descent". They believed that they descented in a place in the heart of the earth called Seol. Seol was a place where Abraham was, and where his descendans we're gather as well. That's why it was called "Abraham's Bossom, or the Paradise of Abraham, this is the place their Lord God gave to Abraham and his children for their inheritance (this place was seperated from the place of the dead of the rest of the world) (As the Jews were separated in this world from the rest of the people, and the same thing after they died in the place of the dead they were separated from the rest of the world). They were in that place waiting for their Lord who was the appointed CHRIST to be, as David and other prophets had said, to discent to them after he died and give the Eternal Life, and take them to Heaven, the inheritance the people with the Eternal Life, the Believers of Jesus Christ. Now as a believer in Jesus Christ, and one which has the Eternal Life, you know what is your inheritance waiting for you, and then when the time comes, you must know where you will go. We are co-heirs of Heaven together with JESUS CHRIST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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