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6 days Creation

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Zoltan777    83

I would like know people opinion about creation. Many traditional believers stating it all happened in 6 days. Some other stating it took 6000 year referring to 2. Peter 3.8.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

So what do you think, which theory is valid? And why? Or explain it if you have different thoughts.

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Enoch2021    2,999
4 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

I would like know people opinion about creation. Many traditional believers stating it all happened in 6 days. Some other stating it took 6000 year referring to 2. Peter 3.8.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Well 2 Peter 3:8 is a Simile -- "Is/Are Like" (Rhetorical Device --- Figurative Language); it's speaking to God's Timelessness...not Creation. 

 

Quote

So what do you think, which theory is valid? And why? 

It's not a "theory"...

(Exodus 20:11) "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

That's why.

 

Hope it helps

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Tristen    489

2 Pet 3:8 only means that God perceives time differently to us.

A 6000 year creation event is inconsistent with both Biblical and secular models of reality.

There is no objective reason (scientific or otherwise) to warrant a rejection of the straight forward meaning of Genesis 1.

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Kevinb    41

There is every scientific reason to reject genesis. Objective and overwhelming scientific opinion is for an old...4.5 billion year old earth and evolution by natural selection to name but two. Only those who've decided the biblical faith version is correct then have looked for "evidence " think otherwise. A case of belief forming evidence rather than evidence forming beliefs.

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HAZARD    2,973
On ‎1‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, Zoltan777 said:

I would like know people opinion about creation. Many traditional believers stating it all happened in 6 days. Some other stating it took 6000 year referring to 2. Peter 3.8.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

So what do you think, which theory is valid? And why? Or explain it if you have different thoughts.

 

“Hi Zoltan777.

"In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.
When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.


Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.

When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) and the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifers kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.We read in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word and the word was God and the Word was with God." In verse three, 3. "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made."

 

The Word, who became flesh, (John 1:14), is an eternal being, having no beginning and no end. The Bible teaches, He was in the beginning as well as teaching, "In the beginning God created . . . . "

 

God the Father and God the Son have never been sitting in Heaven doing nothing throughout eternity past. They have been working, planning and creating all throughout eternity past, present and on into the future. Jesus Himself said; "John 5:17, Jesus answered them, MY FATHER WORKETH HITHERTO, AND I WORK.

 

The Bible teaches that the world, and the universe is many thousands of years if not more old, as does archaeological records, geology, geography, geophysics, soil science, oceanography, hydrology, limnology, glaciology, and atmospheric sciences. 

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Tristen    489
6 hours ago, Kevinb said:

There is every scientific reason to reject genesis. Objective and overwhelming scientific opinion is for an old...4.5 billion year old earth and evolution by natural selection to name but two. Only those who've decided the biblical faith version is correct then have looked for "evidence " think otherwise. A case of belief forming evidence rather than evidence forming beliefs.

Hi Kevin,

You said, “Objective and overwhelming scientific opinion is for an old...4.5 billion year old earth and evolution by natural selection

We all have the same facts. I, as a creationist, interpret the same very same facts used by evolutionists, but to be consistent with the Biblical model of reality. All facts have to be interpreted. Interpretation is a subjective process – highly dependent upon the presuppositions of the interpreter. The secular community “overwhelmingly” prefers interpretations that conform to the secular model of reality – that is true. But since the same facts can be interpreted to conform to different models, exclusive consideration of only one perspective is not “objective”.

Your comment here also mixes logic fallacies Appeal to Consensus and Appeal to Authority/Expertise. Truth is not established by majority opinion. Even if everyone agrees on something, everyone could be wrong. Experts can be wrong, or blinded by personal bias, or even lie. Ideally, we attain knowledge through analysis of rational argument, not through appeals to experts.

Darwin proposed “evolution by natural selection”, but this is no longer the secular argument. I, as a young-earth Biblical creationist have no problem with the process of Natural Selection. Such a process is perfectly consistent with what the Bible teaches. But Natural Selection is a ‘selective’, not a creative process. It does not produce new genetic information, but only filters existing genetic information. For Common Ancestry (which I do contest) to be viable, there needs to be a process contributing novel, additive, functional information to the genome. Such processes have been proposed, but not observed. But Natural Selection alone does not support Common Ancestry.

 

A case of belief forming evidence rather than evidence forming beliefs

Once you involve humans in the interpretation process, you sully the results with human faith, biases and presuppositions. We all start from a particular world view; be it secular naturalism or Biblical creation (or others). Your complaint here can be equally applied to all interpretations of facts. There is no objective reason to level this accusation exclusively at those approaching the facts from a Biblical paradigm.

 

 

 

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Zoltan777    83
6 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 

“Hi Zoltan777.

"In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.
When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.


Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.

When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) and the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifers kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.We read in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word and the word was God and the Word was with God." In verse three, 3. "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made."

 

The Word, who became flesh, (John 1:14), is an eternal being, having no beginning and no end. The Bible teaches, He was in the beginning as well as teaching, "In the beginning God created . . . . "

 

God the Father and God the Son have never been sitting in Heaven doing nothing throughout eternity past. They have been working, planning and creating all throughout eternity past, present and on into the future. Jesus Himself said; "John 5:17, Jesus answered them, MY FATHER WORKETH HITHERTO, AND I WORK.

 

The Bible teaches that the world, and the universe is many thousands of years if not more old, as does archaeological records, geology, geography, geophysics, soil science, oceanography, hydrology, limnology, glaciology, and atmospheric sciences. 

Actually, I was thinking of this too. Between the earth creation and the First day could be millions of year difference. The only thing that still makes me think is that the sun, stars and moon was created on the 4th day. 

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Kevinb    41
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Tristen said:

Your comment here also mixes logic fallacies Appeal to Consensus and Appeal to Authority/Expertise. Truth is not established by majority opinion.

I'm not appealing to majority opinion... you're missing the point. I'm not demonstrating logical fallacy here via authority either. As a now none believer I see religions appealing to authority in fact..ie a particular religious book says x therefore x is true. Science or one person ..isnt authority in the same way ie dawkins says x therefore x is true..he would b need to demonstrate it and others review and repeat any experiments etc. There are scientific experts...but it needs to be demonstrably demonstrated and subject to peer review for scrutiny. Does a religion do this?  I suggest no. 

14 hours ago, Tristen said:

Once you involve humans in the interpretation process, you sully the results with human faith, biases and presuppositions. We all start from a particular world view;

Interesting that you think demonstrable evidence can be interpreted as various truths based on faith bias. That may be the case if you are religious and in fact is. That's not how my world view works. I'll have confidence in theory based upon evidence and scrutiny again. Theory could be changed or modified in light of new evidence. There is no faith here in the same way as you refer to as as theist. Bias no also as I said how I'll change my view and this is how scientific understanding works. If you are religious you'll have faith of course...is there anything someone couldn't believe on faith?  In terms of religion look how many faith views there are and have been. Faith isn't a reliable pathway to truth. Faith and religion to me therefore is totally irrelevant and of no use in discovering the truth of the natural world.

I've published here somewhere before how the genome is changed and added to and how that's been demonstrated. We've also code to make egg yolks for example which is a "broken" link from our reptilian heritage... just an example.. Francis Collins head of the genome project and others in the field have shown that genome alone proves common ancestry.. we've neandathol Dna in our genome..please read the studies...please falisfy and publish for review. This is a fraction of it of course..This is on top of evidence in embryology..speciation.. fossil record...vestigial dna and traits. 

Apparently to be loyal to the bible you should believe we live on a flat surface under a dome that's all standing on columns too. Ergo the sun must also be a flat disk.. you'll need to throw out it being a burning ball of hydrogen and Einsteinian gravity too. Or you're happy to not do this. The bible also says stars are angels... do you think that if so please demonstrate?

Anyway I believe I've highlighted the difference... I've no faith bias and will change my mind upon new peer reviewed corroberative evidence to support a different theory. Can you say the same. I'd say not as faith views can't change as the bible authority is set.  Incidently if you believe in some micro evolution notion but stop when it conflicts your particular religious view.. you still need to demonstrate demonstrably biblical stuff...floods ...6 000 year old earth etc etc. We can't just x is the case because the bible says x. That's a circular reasoning fallacy. Else we may as well accept any faith view any humans have ever had. 

In terms of an alternate the best creationism stuff I've heard is just assertion... arguement from ignorance fallacy...or an argument from analogy...ie we were intelligently created as it can't come about by accident ..my car is designed and so we look to be. Obviously there's no comparable demonstration here...i can drive to a factory and see my car being made.. Mr Ford designed the car..here are the designs..heres how we make alloys.. etc etc. Cars don't occur naturally in the wild and breed... this kinda analogy is a nonsense and not analogous of course. Still gotta demonstrate. Else we're back to one could believe anything on faith and faith has been irrelevant to 400 ish years of scientific understanding 

Edited by Kevinb

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dprprb    50
On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 9:23 AM, Zoltan777 said:

I would like know people opinion about creation. Many traditional believers stating it all happened in 6 days. Some other stating it took 6000 year referring to 2. Peter 3.8.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

So what do you think, which theory is valid? And why? Or explain it if you have different thoughts.

I think Ill add a dimensionalness to the perspective of the Creation event and try to stop being very human in my interpretation. Many WCF members have attributed to God - ‘beyond time , timeless, tachyonic, everlasting” etc  and maybe Im the kind to infer that means He sees and describes things VERY differently than you might expect and alter my interpretation of Genesis.

If God knows everything (Psalm 139) and introduces me to you by saying “Here’s Dprprb, he works at blah and lives in blah-b-blah” it is completely short of the mark in terms of what He knows. It is a breath in comparison to a whole lifetime of breathing.  So therefore I think God describes what He sees for dictation into Genesis.  Being tachyonic, beyond time ,etc  specifically means that He sees the totality of Creation in all it’s wonders and temporal possibilities/probabilities from beginning to end (the alpha /omega perspective). From this total chaos of summation which can also described as without form and void, He “CALLS” forth into being the various constructs of Creation (notice this is not ex nihil creation ‘from nothing’ -Genesis 1:1-2 clearly indicates something is there and there’s no backwards compatible Scripture that I know of to qualify that) . Because He is timeless it is perhaps undefinable when and inconsequential that certain items appear out of order to the other mechanical components such as day/night before sun, moon, stars and the incomplete water cycle I described in my posting about a global flood. However, the point in that perspective is that it then becomes an assumption to drag backwards the effects of gravity and angular momentum from Day 4 to the Day 1 period of light and dark and declare some official 24 hr clock.  The sun and earth together make such a period and to ascribe it to Days 1-3 must be viewed as an imposed assumption , again, unless there is backwards compatible Scripture which modifies our understanding ….All because ‘tachyonic’ and ‘ beyond time’ would essentially erase your definitions of cause and effect in the linear way per your opinions- basically God can say “birds” before there is a sky or air for them to fly in and it makes not a lick of difference even though both things define 'birdom'.  Hence the mis-order of events in Genesis is strong evidence that God is atemporally seated in His perspective relative to a historic , linear perspective we humans might assemble.…just as we claimed.  

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HAZARD    2,973
13 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

Actually, I was thinking of this too. Between the earth creation and the First day could be millions of year difference. The only thing that still makes me think is that the sun, stars and moon was created on the 4th day. 

The light from the sun, moon and stars were turned off when God destroyed the Earth after Lucifers rebellion. God took one day to complete solar regulation in connection with the restored earth, but He evidently used a much longer period to originally bring into existence and from with His own hands the vast heavens and all the suns, moons, stars, and planets that are without number;

  Psalm 8:3, When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

In other words, if God took six days to restore one little planet to a habitable state and form new inhabitants for the Earth, He would naturally take a much longer time to originally create and form the vast universe with all its innumerable suns and planets.

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