Dinosaurs and Evolution

[Sister]

5 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

This part is true.  But it was long enough for God to take drastic action.  Dinosaurs and the animals of the Cambrian Explosion were destroyed by Lucifer's Flood, not Noah's Flood.

Hi Saved.One.by.Grace

Lucifers Flood?  Sorry I have never heard about it.  There is only one flood spoken of in the scriptures, which God sent upon the earth and only 8 souls were saved

5 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

That is an assumption not based on a rigorous study of Holy Scripture. 

My assumption is only on this scripture below which clearly states there were already giants on the earth when the "sons of God" started breeding with the daughters of men. I say these giants are referring to dinosaurs.

Genesis 6:4   There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

Quote

I assume you are a Young Earth Creationist.  If you are, YEC like to play fast and loose with Science when it suits their purpose.  The rest of your argument can be dismissed because it is based on an error.

I roughly worked out how old the earth is by calculating all the geneologies going back to Adam, and using this below as a rough guide also.  We cannot be accurate but the maths definitely points to the earth not being millions of years old.

Matthew 1:17   So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

What I cannot work out is exactly how many years is considered a generation.

As for science, some things can be tested and some cannot.  We cannot rely on men to interpret the whole creation process as it is too wonderful for us, and far beyond our limited understanding.  Many forget that the god of this world, Lucifer, has corrupted everything and polluted all the waters, always giving us disinformation.

Satan always likes to put all events further back, and things like the sun, moon and stars further away than what they are in reality, to give us the delusion that God was so long ago, and so far away that it is impossible to believe he exists and created all things.  In my opinion, that is just one of his tactics to deceive.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Sister

[Willa]

In Montana they found dinosaurs with living bone marrow.  This has happened many times according to scientist who are Christians but no one wants to go against established doctrine of the evolutionists so they suppress the evidence and  many believe a lie.  

[Zoltan777]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

We know the bones of human giants have been found.  Same with the dinosaur bones.  The bones of man, and the bones of beast.

We know the "sons of God" (angels) mingled with the seed of man, creating children which would of been a half man, half angel breed......Yet, Genesis clearly states that there were already giants on the earth, when the "sons of God" mingled with the daughters of man.  So just looking at this verse in Genesis, reveals one thing.  These other giants, were there before the angels started breeding with man.  Although it doesn't clearly state that these other giants were animals, it only makes sense, Satan corrupted a different type of flesh, first (animals).  He tried it, got away with it, then moved on to man.

Yes I have.  The book of Enoch goes into detail about the angels mingling with man, but doesn't reveal them mingling with animals.  But just because God did not reveal, doesn't mean that it did not happen.  I think the clue in Genesis shows that the "beasts" were corrupted first..

 

Satan was the first to rebel against man in the garden, and after man was kicked out of the garden, Satan was not working alone. You have not yet discovered what happened to Adam and Eve after leaving the garden, and all that they went through.  You can find this out in the first and second book of Adam and Eve.  Another book rejected, yet full of treasures.  You can read about all Adam's descendants right through to Noah, and how things eventuated after the fall of man, and how Satan and his host operated causing continual deception.

 

 

It would be against the logic of God, however not the logic of Satan.  He is responsible for corrupting all of God's creation, through bringing chaos.  If the animals were not corrupted by Lucifer, then why did God not spare them?

I can't prove it either.  I know that these angels that mingled with men overstepped their boundary.  They were put in a prison and are still there today.  Satan was not put in prison, so he did not do it himself but must of convinced the others to do it.  Now, if those angels were locked up and bound for committing such an act, then why would they start again?  Maybe they did?  but with such a harsh judgement already served on the ones prior, I think God made a statement to them, and that was to not cross this line again.....Look I have read that Satanic groups are still having sex with devils, but are there any children being born of them?  I don't think so.  If so, the world would not have lasted as long as it has.  It only makes sense that Noah's wife carried the corrupted gene.  I can't prove it, but using logic only as there is no other way.

Yes, I can't prove it either.  Just trying to put the pieces together based on the information we are given.

I have read just now book of adam not entirely but I can clearly see that is nothing else just a fiction novel. 

Satan and his angels were not put in prison but have they not done more evil than those fallen angels of God? It has a completely different reason why they are not condemned still. 

The reason that human's lifespan was reduced drastically is to prevent God's angels marrying humans again probably the punishment is another reason. Regarding satan and his angels I believe Antichrist will be the offspring of satan. Also, there are many myths stating that humans and angels were mingling during the history. It doesn't necessarily mean they must be giants in appearance. I know it's just a legend but like about Romulus and Ramus the founders of the roman empire I can imagine it's true.

I still don't know where to stand how the giants survived the flood. It can be true what you have said especially recalling scriptures where humans is called brood of vipers. And for being children of God we have to reborn again. Why? Who's is our father in the spiritual world if not God?

About dinosaurs it's really hard to go against the science and prove it they lived together with us. If you have any proof (not just speculation) I would like to read it. But for me it's more easy to believe that they lived in an old world which was destroyed by God after lucifer rebellion then He made everything new.

[Sister]

2 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said:

I have read just now book of adam not entirely but I can clearly see that is nothing else just a fiction novel.

Hi Zoltan777

What gives you that impression it is purely fiction?  Let me guess, .....Adam full of sorrow jumping off the mountain and killing himself, and Eve throwing herself down after him....then God resuscitating them?

2 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said:

Satan and his angels were not put in prison but have they not done more evil than those fallen angels of God? It has a completely different reason why they are not condemned still. 

I don't know if they have done more evil than the other angels locked up, as we were not there during the flood, but I see your point, evil has grown.

 

8 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said:

Regarding satan and his angels I believe Antichrist will be the offspring of satan.

Yes, I've often wondered about that.  It is possible, but I can't say I know for sure.

 

13 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said:

I still don't know where to stand how the giants survived the flood. It can be true what you have said especially recalling scriptures where humans is called brood of vipers. And for being children of God we have to reborn again. Why? Who's is our father in the spiritual world if not God?

 

For years it has been bugging me how the Nephlim came to be after the flood, and I happened to mention it to a friend, and he said it's simple....Noah's wife must of carried that gene and passed it on to one of her sons.  I thought about it, and considered how all the giants came out of Ham's lineage only and remembered he was cursed.  Now we know that not all of Hams descendants were giants, but those who were, were of his tribe. 

My friends simple explanation makes a lot of sense to me now.  I can't prove it, but it makes the most sense.

31 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said:

About dinosaurs it's really hard to go against the science and prove it they lived together with us. If you have any proof (not just speculation) I would like to read it. But for me it's more easy to believe that they lived in an old world which was destroyed by God after lucifer rebellion then He made everything new.

I can't imagine that the dinosaurs would of lived for very long along side man, and how do we even know they lived alongside man?  meaning they could of existed in undiscovered lands at that time before the flood. Man only spread out after Babel which was after the flood, but dinosaur fossils are found everywhere, ....not proving where they originated, but where they ended up because of the big deluge.

Regarding proof of when the dinosaurs were wiped out, can we really depend on man to give us this answer? Why trust man that doesn't believe in a God who created everything with his wisdom, and teaches everything to insinuate that God doesn't exist or is so insignificant. We cannot trust everything that they have taught us, which is why we go to the scriptures seeking for the clues, and unfortunately we have little to go on regarding dinosaurs.

1 hour ago, Zoltan777 said:

But for me it's more easy to believe that they lived in an old world which was destroyed by God after lucifer rebellion then He made everything new.

I have heard this theory before, but have not read this anywhere in the scriptures, or any clues to this happening.

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

11 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Saved.One.by.Grace

Lucifers Flood?  Sorry I have never heard about it.  There is only one flood spoken of in the scriptures, which God sent upon the earth and only 8 souls were saved

That's an error proven by Holy Scripture.  I suggest you address that question to Hazard who has amassed a large collection of scripture to prove your understanding in error.

11 hours ago, Sister said:

My assumption is only on this scripture below which clearly states there were already giants on the earth when the "sons of God" started breeding with the daughters of men. I say these giants are referring to dinosaurs.

Genesis 6:4   There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:1-2 proves you wrong.

1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,

2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

 

11 hours ago, Sister said:

I roughly worked out how old the earth is by calculating all the geneologies going back to Adam, and using this below as a rough guide also.  We cannot be accurate but the maths definitely points to the earth not being millions of years old.

Matthew 1:17   So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

What I cannot work out is exactly how many years is considered a generation.

As for science, some things can be tested and some cannot.  We cannot rely on men to interpret the whole creation process as it is too wonderful for us, and far beyond our limited understanding.  Many forget that the god of this world, Lucifer, has corrupted everything and polluted all the waters, always giving us disinformation.

Satan always likes to put all events further back, and things like the sun, moon and stars further away than what they are in reality, to give us the delusion that God was so long ago, and so far away that it is impossible to believe he exists and created all things.  In my opinion, that is just one of his tactics to deceive.

If you work out the math, you'll see the future promised land to be about 6000 years old.  This calculation is well known and is in error.  There is a gap in time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3.  Genesis 1:2 shows the state of the land in a flood state, also know as Lucifer's Flood.  Again, see Hazard.

I get it, you're not a scientist and don't want physical support for your whimsical beliefs about Lucifer.  Sorry, I don't feel very tolerant today.

[one.opinion]

12 hours ago, Willa said:

In Montana they found dinosaurs with living bone marrow.  This has happened many times according to scientist who are Christians but no one wants to go against established doctrine of the evolutionists so they suppress the evidence and  many believe a lie.  

What Dr. Mary Schweitzer discovered was soft tissue inside a fossilized bone. She did not find living bone marrow. You may consider this quibbling, but it is important to accurately portray facts. No living cells, and only very sparse remnants of any cellular tissue remained. Interestingly, scientists were able to save enough of the soft material to analyze some of the protein fragments still present, and the proteins most closely resembled proteins from birds, as the theory of evolution would predict. Dr. Schweitzer is a Christian, and also accepts science supporting that these fossils are over 65 million years old.

When you think about it, if dinosaurs really did become extinct only a few thousand years ago, then we should be able to find carcasses (like woolly mammoths and others) and not just fossils. In addition, scientists would be able to find soft tissue inside a majority (or at least a much higher number) of fossils and not just one in a million.

I absolutely believe that God created, I just so happen to believe that he used evolution to do it.

[Zoltan777]

6 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Zoltan777

What gives you that impression it is purely fiction?  Let me guess, .....Adam full of sorrow jumping off the mountain and killing himself, and Eve throwing herself down after him....then God resuscitating them?

I don't know if they have done more evil than the other angels locked up, as we were not there during the flood, but I see your point, evil has grown.

 

Yes, I've often wondered about that.  It is possible, but I can't say I know for sure.

 

For years it has been bugging me how the Nephlim came to be after the flood, and I happened to mention it to a friend, and he said it's simple....Noah's wife must of carried that gene and passed it on to one of her sons.  I thought about it, and considered how all the giants came out of Ham's lineage only and remembered he was cursed.  Now we know that not all of Hams descendants were giants, but those who were, were of his tribe. 

My friends simple explanation makes a lot of sense to me now.  I can't prove it, but it makes the most sense.

I can't imagine that the dinosaurs would of lived for very long along side man, and how do we even know they lived alongside man?  meaning they could of existed in undiscovered lands at that time before the flood. Man only spread out after Babel which was after the flood, but dinosaur fossils are found everywhere, ....not proving where they originated, but where they ended up because of the big deluge.

Regarding proof of when the dinosaurs were wiped out, can we really depend on man to give us this answer? Why trust man that doesn't believe in a God who created everything with his wisdom, and teaches everything to insinuate that God doesn't exist or is so insignificant. We cannot trust everything that they have taught us, which is why we go to the scriptures seeking for the clues, and unfortunately we have little to go on regarding dinosaurs.

I have heard this theory before, but have not read this anywhere in the scriptures, or any clues to this happening.

 

Nope, your guess was wrong. I didn't even went that far ha-ha. The language of Book of Adam is very literary. Like a novel, it just didn't sound right to me. That was my initial feeling. And when I got to the point about the 5500 year when God restores the earth - which obviously is a false statement - the whole book lost its credibility. Like a nice fairy tail that never happened. 

"I can't imagine that the dinosaurs would of lived for very long along side man, and how do we even know they lived alongside man?  meaning they could of existed in undiscovered lands at that time before the flood. Man only spread out after Babel which was after the flood, but dinosaur fossils are found everywhere, ....not proving where they originated, but where they ended up because of the big deluge."

Question to question: why would satan create dinosaurs in a separate island far from humans? What you mentioned I think it's quite good proof that dinosaurs were everywhere. Even if it were true as you said and they carcasses were carried away by the flood it must mean their population greatly outnumbered the humans. And how come they didn't find any humans along with dinosaurs fossils? 

"Regarding proof of when the dinosaurs were wiped out, can we really depend on man to give us this answer? Why trust man that doesn't believe in a God who created everything with his wisdom, and teaches everything to insinuate that God doesn't exist or is so insignificant. We cannot trust everything that they have taught us, which is why we go to the scriptures seeking for the clues, and unfortunately we have little to go on regarding dinosaurs."

You can't find answer for everything in the Bible. God is hiding facts about the past that's for sure. I don't want to be too nosy and step over my boundaries so whatever thoughts in my head I am still flexible to change it. But because many things not mentioned in the Bible I have to use common sense to puzzle everything. So at some point I have to rely on science as well even though many scientist doesn't believe in God. But if I ask a simple question and let's say you don't know the answer, how much is 2+2? Would it make any difference if it was non-believer who could give you the correct answer? We can't go against facts even if it's not proven in the bible or by a Christian. Like the earth is a globe. Still many christian try to deny it and rather stick with their traditional belief. Same like with the dinosaurs. Or the whole universe that was created 6000 years ago. What about the stars that are millions of light years away? How come their light reached the earth if it is only 6000 years old?

As for me it's not about who I trust more. Science or God? Science can't prove that God is wrong. It's is impossible. What it can prove wrong is our own thoughts and false traditional belief. 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Zoltan777

[Sister]

8 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

Nope, your guess was wrong. I didn't even went that far ha-ha. The language of Book of Adam is very literary. Like a novel, it just didn't sound right to me. That was my initial feeling. And when I got to the point about the 5500 year when God restores the earth - which obviously is a false statement - the whole book lost its credibility. Like a nice fairy tail that never happened. 

Hi Zoltan777

If you only got that far then you havn't really read it!

It took me about 8 months to understand the meaning of this one.  It bugged me and bugged me, so please just read again, and I will explain;

 

Book of Adam and Eve

chapter 3

1 GOD said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and thou and thy seed shall dwell and walk in it, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen.

2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."

3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them.

4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world.

5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him.

6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed.

Adam fell, but what the world does not know is that Adam repented with all his heart and went through numerous trials and tribulations after being sent out of the garden.  Outside of that garden, Adam was afraid for his life, as the land was different with rocks, and thorns, and sand, and a dark cave where he and Eve were sent.  However God did not stop communicating with Adam and Eve, and set them boundaries and rules which they had to abide by. However, the serpent never went away, but continually harrassed Adam and Eve to transgress against the Lord's orders.

We cannot imagine the sorrow Adam went through, and he continually begged God to let him back into the garden.  That garden symbolised heaven on earth.  Everything was clean and pure. 

God promised Adam that he could come back to the garden in another 5,500 yrs. You are thinking 5,500 yrs until the 2nd Coming, but God is speaking of when Christ first came.  When Christ was resurrected, the door was opened to the kingdom of God through him FOR ALL.  Man has a ticket now to gain entrance into all the promises offered for those who believe.  Adam will be one of the remnants of Israel who will be brought back from the land of the enemy (the grave). 

So Adam didn't come back into the garden at Christ's resurrection, but he received is ticket.  He's as good as there, as his name was recorded in the Lambs book of life.  Adam will come back physically (in the flesh) at the start of the millennium into paradise again, and many with him.

Now, what I learn't from the book of Enoch is that God created the sun, moon and stars, and gave them for signs to count the days, months, & years.  He appointed certain angels to look after the luminaries, so that everything would move and function with accurate timing.  God put angels in charge of everything, the wind, the rain, the hail, the snow, etc, ...but we are just talking about the luminaries now.  When Satan saw that God had made Adam and Eve, he came down with his angels to deceive, ....so they left their stations that they were supposed to man, (the sun, the moon, the stars etc.)  But they still had access to heaven and traveled to and fro from the earth back to their stations. God allowed this for his purpose.  So at the resurrection of Christ, war broke out in heaven, and they were cast to the earth being totally barred from heaven forever.  Whilst this war was going on in heaven, the order of the sun, moon and stars went out.  SO TIME IS NOT ACCURATE ACCCORDING TO ANY CALENDAR.  I know now, that we may not be in the year 2017 as they tell us, because Enoch left the clue that the order of time was mixed up.

The Book of Enoch, Section three, chapter 80

2 And in the days of the sinners the years shall be shortened,

And their seed shall be tardy on their lands and fields,

And all things on the earth shall alter,

And shall not appear in their time:

And the rain shall be kept back

And the heaven shall withhold (it).

3 And in those times the fruits of the earth shall be backward,

And shall not grow in their time,

And the fruits of the trees shall be withheld in their time.

4 And the moon shall alter her order,

And not appear at her time.

⁵ [And in those days the sun shall be seen and he shall journey in the evening on the extremity of the great chariot in the west]

And shall shine more brightly than accords with the order of light.

6 And many chiefs of the stars shall transgress the order (prescribed).

And these shall alter their orbits and tasks,

And not appear at the seasons prescribed to them.

7 And the whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners,

And the thoughts of those on the earth shall err concerning them,

[And they shall be altered from all their ways],

Yea, they shall err and take them to be gods.

8 And evil shall be multiplied upon them,

And punishment shall come upon them So as to destroy all.'

The seasons are out, because the order has been transgressed. TIME IS OUT OF WHACK.    The dates today are not the dates we think they are.  How far the dates are out, I don't know.  This means after Christ was resurrected, all the calendars are out, even the Jewish one.

I think it happened around the time Christ came;

 Revelation 12:3   And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

  Revelation 12:4   And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

WHEN WAS THERE WAR IN HEAVEN?  After Christ's ascension!  Not before.

  Revelation 12:8   And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

  Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

First we have the dragon casting a third of the angels to earth, but they can return back to heaven, .....then we have God casting them all out after the resurrection for good.  Two different casting outs. Time goes out after the second one.  The seasons are not accurate according to the calendar, nor the days.  We cannot trust man for dates, and times and years....and don't let a little thing put you off because of misunderstanding. There are treasures in that book, and it even mentions Enoch when you get to the end of the second book of Adam and Eve.
 

[Zoltan777]

9 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Zoltan777

If you only got that far then you havn't really read it!

It took me about 8 months to understand the meaning of this one.  It bugged me and bugged me, so please just read again, and I will explain;

 

Book of Adam and Eve

chapter 3

1 GOD said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and thou and thy seed shall dwell and walk in it, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen.

 

2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."

 

3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them.

 

4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world.

 

5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him.

 

6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed.

 

 

Adam fell, but what the world does not know is that Adam repented with all his heart and went through numerous trials and tribulations after being sent out of the garden.  Outside of that garden, Adam was afraid for his life, as the land was different with rocks, and thorns, and sand, and a dark cave where he and Eve were sent.  However God did not stop communicating with Adam and Eve, and set them boundaries and rules which they had to abide by. However, the serpent never went away, but continually harrassed Adam and Eve to transgress against the Lord's orders.

We cannot imagine the sorrow Adam went through, and he continually begged God to let him back into the garden.  That garden symbolised heaven on earth.  Everything was clean and pure. 

God promised Adam that he could come back to the garden in another 5,500 yrs. You are thinking 5,500 yrs until the 2nd Coming, but God is speaking of when Christ first came.  When Christ was resurrected, the door was opened to the kingdom of God through him FOR ALL.  Man has a ticket now to gain entrance into all the promises offered for those who believe.  Adam will be one of the remnants of Israel who will be brought back from the land of the enemy (the grave). 

So Adam didn't come back into the garden at Christ's resurrection, but he received is ticket.  He's as good as there, as his name was recorded in the Lambs book of life.  Adam will come back physically (in the flesh) at the start of the millennium into paradise again, and many with him.

Now, what I learn't from the book of Enoch is that God created the sun, moon and stars, and gave them for signs to count the days, months, & years.  He appointed certain angels to look after the luminaries, so that everything would move and function with accurate timing.  God put angels in charge of everything, the wind, the rain, the hail, the snow, etc, ...but we are just talking about the luminaries now.  When Satan saw that God had made Adam and Eve, he came down with his angels to deceive, ....so they left their stations that they were supposed to man, (the sun, the moon, the stars etc.)  But they still had access to heaven and traveled to and fro from the earth back to their stations. God allowed this for his purpose.  So at the resurrection of Christ, war broke out in heaven, and they were cast to the earth being totally barred from heaven forever.  Whilst this war was going on in heaven, the order of the sun, moon and stars went out.  SO TIME IS NOT ACCURATE ACCCORDING TO ANY CALENDAR.  I know now, that we may not be in the year 2017 as they tell us, because Enoch left the clue that the order of time was mixed up.

The Book of Enoch, Section three, chapter 80

2 And in the days of the sinners the years shall be shortened,

And their seed shall be tardy on their lands and fields,

And all things on the earth shall alter,

And shall not appear in their time:

And the rain shall be kept back

And the heaven shall withhold (it).

3 And in those times the fruits of the earth shall be backward,

And shall not grow in their time,

And the fruits of the trees shall be withheld in their time.

4 And the moon shall alter her order,

And not appear at her time.

⁵ [And in those days the sun shall be seen and he shall journey in the evening on the extremity of the great chariot in the west]

And shall shine more brightly than accords with the order of light.

6 And many chiefs of the stars shall transgress the order (prescribed).

And these shall alter their orbits and tasks,

And not appear at the seasons prescribed to them.

7 And the whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners,

And the thoughts of those on the earth shall err concerning them,

[And they shall be altered from all their ways],

Yea, they shall err and take them to be gods.

8 And evil shall be multiplied upon them,

And punishment shall come upon them So as to destroy all.'

The seasons are out, because the order has been transgressed. TIME IS OUT OF WHACK.    The dates today are not the dates we think they are.  How far the dates are out, I don't know.  This means after Christ was resurrected, all the calendars are out, even the Jewish one.

I think it happened around the time Christ came;

 Revelation 12:3   And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

  Revelation 12:4   And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

WHEN WAS THERE WAR IN HEAVEN?  After Christ's ascension!  Not before.

  Revelation 12:8   And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

  Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

First we have the dragon casting a third of the angels to earth, but they can return back to heaven, .....then we have God casting them all out after the resurrection for good.  Two different casting outs. Time goes out after the second one.  The seasons are not accurate according to the calendar, nor the days.  We cannot trust man for dates, and times and years....and don't let a little thing put you off because of misunderstanding. There are treasures in that book, and it even mentions Enoch when you get to the end of the second book of Adam and Eve.
 

Hey Sister,

I didn't read through the book but I have read the title of every chapter. Is it not enough? By the way I can accept that Adam and Eve regretted what they have done and repented but the whole story of the book still sounds like a fairy tail. If you can prove that I am wrong and what is written is true I will read it. But I think you are confusing things.

Firstly, the mentioned verses from book of Enoch is about the end time which have not fulfilled yet and it didn't happen in the days of Jesus. At the end time angels of God will disobey Him leaving their routes and orders by doing things which they weren't supposed to do. Mingling with humans as it was in the day on Noah. Which is also mentioned in Daniel 2:43 says, "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

So it's not correct assumption that the time and seasons has already been changed. No it's not. They haven't left their routes yet but they will at the end and it will be an obvious sign not just speculation.  And even if you think the times have changed, God counted these things in His calculation and always gave us the right numbers in the prophesies. Therefore the 5500 years simple is false. 

Regarding revelation 12, again you consider it as it came true in the past and end of story. But I believe it's prophetic sings about the FUTURE not just the past which still needs to be fulfilled.  "His tail drew one third of the stars of the sky, and threw them to the earth." - It hasn't happened yet that's about end time when God's angels will leave their position. Before that this chapter is talking about the woman who is giving birth to a child in the sky. Yes that's can be used as reference to Jesus but it's also about a future event. By the way, there will be certain cosmic events on 23. September if you haven't heard about there is a link. //////https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA6JcY-ikec&feature=youtu.be/////// The guy didn't even mention Draco (dragon) constellation and the meteor shower which will happen soon after on 7-9 October. I disagree with many of his statement but this cosmic event will take place anyway. Now you can say it's just a mumbo jumbo but I believe God created the universe as a precise clock mechanism which shows us signs and their seasons which is still in place. In my interpretation rev 12 concerning the future - which is still not bullet proof -I believe that a person will appear soon as a spiritual gift to change the flow of human mankind. When the Spirit of God will be poured out and spiritual world comes close to our world. When he is dies this work will be corrupted and the empire of Antichrist will be established.  You can't really look at revelation 12 and 13 as it was fulfilled already because it's not true. It's about the future events that certainly will happen.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Zoltan777

[Sister]

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

I didn't read through the book but I have read the title of every chapter. Is it not enough?

Hi Zoltan777

No not enough.  You have to follow it through carefully.

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

By the way I can accept that Adam and Eve regretted what they have done and repented but the whole story of the book still sounds like a fairy tail.

People who read the bible for the first time say that also!  They are reading for the first time about dragons, talking serpents, beasts, ....all seems like something out of a novel for them too.  The book of Adam and Eve is simple.  There are things in there that we really need to concentrate on, and ask for understanding, just like we do in the holy scriptures.  Many questions have to be asked if we think something is contradictory, this is good practice, but don't give up because the problem often lies with us,...our mis-interpretation, and not the words being told.

 

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

If you can prove that I am wrong and what is written is true I will read it. But I think you are confusing things.

I cannot prove anything to you.  If that spirit in you is just satisfied with just what you have been given, then leave it alone, ...but if you have a thirst for more knowledge and really want to know all the details we have never heard before, give it a try, and make your mind up at the end.

 

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

Firstly, the mentioned verses from book of Enoch is about the end time which have not fulfilled yet and it didn't happen in the days of Jesus.

The holy angels of God did not trangress the order.  They are obedient.  However, Satan and his angels came and stirred trouble on earth, starting right from Adam.  They transgressed from the beginning.  How can we put this in the end times only, when we know the scriptures starting from Genesis?

Job shows us that Satan was in a meeting in "heaven", therefore he was not cast out completely then.  Revelation 12 shows us that after the man child (Christ) was caught up to God, war broke out in heaven, and the dragon and his angels were cast out for good.  Now if the dragon was ready to devour Christ even before he was born using Herod, and cast down a third of the angels with his tail, then that means that at that particular time in history, Satan's angels were down here all together.  What about their stations?  Were they not supposed to keep the order of the luminaries?, keep it working like clockwork?  This is my opinion only that time is not kept accurately around the time of Christ.  Before that it would of happened also, but they are not in heaven now and when the sun and the moon and the stars are smitten as spoken in Revelation, it is not because of those fallen angels, but because of God's command to his own angels.  There is a difference.

 

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

At the end time angels of God will disobey Him leaving their routes and orders by doing things which they weren't supposed to do.

They are already out of heaven?  After the war which took place when Christ arose.  I can't understand why this is so hard to understand?  The scripture in Rev 12 gives the timing.  Am I reading a different bible from every one else?

 

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

Mingling with humans as it was in the day on Noah. Which is also mentioned in Daniel 2:43 says, "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

Angels are definately mingling with humans now, I agree. They are being worshiped and are communicating with man.  They are showing themselves and are feared by those who worship them, and who do unspeakable sacrifices for them.  But they don't appear to everyone.  As for Daniel, this is not talking about angels, it's talking about the ten kings.  They are mingling with all types....the religions of today,...Islam, Hindu, Christian, Roman Catholic, even ancient pagan religions etc,....and not only religions, but atheists, governments, ...all people of all nations. They mingle but they don't stick, because they have their own agenda and are using everyone else to serve their purpose.

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

So it's not correct assumption that the time and seasons has already been changed. No it's not. They haven't left their routes yet but they will at the end and it will be an obvious sign not just speculation.  And even if you think the times have changed, God counted these things in His calculation and always gave us the right numbers in the prophesies. Therefore the 5500 years simple is false. 

Ok, you cannot see it yet.  I will not hold this against you, but I stand firm.  Go back to Genesis, and Exodus, and all the prophets and check again if the angels kept their station?  Was Satan always working alone?  Again 5,500 yrs from Adam to Christ's death and resurrection, and not to the end.  Just ponder on it for a while.

 

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

Regarding revelation 12, again you consider it as it came true in the past and end of story. But I believe it's prophetic sings about the FUTURE not just the past which still needs to be fulfilled.  "His tail drew one third of the stars of the sky, and threw them to the earth." - It hasn't happened yet that's about end time when God's angels will leave their position. Before that this chappter is talking about the woman who is giving birth to a child in the sky. Yes that's can be used as reference to Jesus but it's also about a future event.

No I don't consider all of Rev 12 past, because this part is future;

 Revelation 12:17   And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

I believe that a person will appear soon as a spiritual gift to change the flow of human mankind. When the Spirit of God will be poured out and spiritual world comes close to our world. When he is dies this work will be corrupted and the empire of Antichrist will be established.  You can't really look at revelation 12 and 13 as it was fulfilled already because it's not true. It's about the future events that certainly will happen.

Edited 17 minutes ago by Zoltan777

Who is this person that will appear soon as a spiritual gift?

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Sister