3 in one Three or One

[Reinitin]

31 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Another bit that I believe helps is in John 6 when Jesus stated numerous times that those who believe in Him will be resurrected on the last day.  So you have "the last trumpet of God, on the last day".

My personal view of "the last day" is the day of the Lord, that day of demarcation that ends Satan's reign as the god of this world and begins the rule of the kingdom of God on earth.  This is echoed in the description of the seventh trumpet.  Although I don't see the seventh trumpet as "the last trumpet", I do see it as commencing the day of the Lord, with the last trumpet of God quickly following.

yes, that is clearly supported by scripture.

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, brakelite said:

Hi. Below is a link to my blog where I have dealt in detail with the futurist hermeneutic and how it developed over the past 500 years, why, and the result. I think that considering your determination over several decades to understand truth, you may find this interesting: as well as the two follow up articles, parts B and C.

 

https://brakelite.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/characteristic-seven/

Really like your blog. Never noticed neb tried to interfere with Gods time and seasons.

[missmuffet]

Two separate events.

The rapture of the Church before the seven year tribulation. The second coming of Christ after the seven year tribulation.

[Reinitin]

3 hours ago, Abdicate said:

So this begs the question: how long is the tribulation if there is one? 

Well, I'm not a preterist so I believe events for the end are still future - meaning Revelation. I'm also a literalist in that while there is hidden meaning in a lot of the writings, I find most (if not all) have a literal meaning to them. So my first stop in this short reply is with the Two Witnesses.

They preach for 1260 days.

Revelation 11:3 (KJV)
And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.  

They are killed and both Jesus (quoting Daniel) and John warn Israel to flee to the mountains for 1260 days.

Revelation 12:6 (KJV)
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.  

Matthew 24:15-16 (KJV)
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  

Daniel 9:22-23 (KJV)
And he informed [me], and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.  At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew [thee]; for thou [art] greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.  

Since a week is seven years, 1260 + 1260 = 7 years (of 30-day months) with the midpoint being the desolation of the temple (which must first be built - again) and the Antichrist kills the Two Witnesses, the covenant signed is 7 years - one week. Which also means the beginning of the tribulation is with the covenant and the arrival of the Two Witnesses. 

While I don't want to try and put everything into a chronological order, these two events rather spell it all out, or at least gives us a template. Seven years is 42 months or two sets of "time, times, and half a time", two sets of 1260 days. Now we can search the scriptures for each of these instances of numbering and attempt to sort it out. 

FYI Daniel 8:14 is usually misinterpreted as "days" when in the Hebrew it's "evenings and mornings" and speak to the sacrifices in the temple that's suddenly stopped by the AC - to kill the Two Witnesses. So the 2300 are the number of sacrifices, one in the evening and one in the morning, or 1150 days, which fits perfectly into a scenario where the AC makes the convenant - a provision of the covenant is a temple - which can be rebuilt within a couple of months, and the sacrifices begin, then get stopped after 1150 days. My free study goes into much more detail: http://www.abdicate.net/book.aspx

 

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

thank you for taking the time to lay it out understandabley.

[Retrobyter]

On 8/7/2017 at 11:05 PM, Keras said:

Jacobs troubles, or the time of anguish for Jacob, Jeremiah 30:7, refers to the terrible Day of Lord's vengeance and wrath; the Sixth Seal event. 

....yet  he will come thru it safely.  But we see from the many other prophesies about that Day, that many will die, especially in the holy Land area. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, +   So it will be only those who call out to the Lord, on that Day, that will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, will occur in the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.  

Shalom, Keras.

Sorry, but Ya`aqov's troubles started WAY before the Sixth Seal event! It started when Yeshua` pronounced them "desolate" in Matthew 23:37-39. Many children of Israel HAVE died down through the last two thousand years! All because they rejected their King Apparent, the Messiah of God - the Anointed One of God - the One Selected by God to be King! THAT'S what "Christ" means! It started in the Holy Land area, but it soon escalated to anywhere that children of Israel, especially those called "Jews," the ones from the tribe of Y'hudah (Judah), were found!

The Day of the LORD, which immediately follows the period of Ya`aqov's troubles, is a time of RESCUE from the persecution and desolation of that 2,000-year period:

Jeremiah 30:1-22
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved (delivered; rescued) out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save (deliver; rescue) thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
12 For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.
13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.
14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.
16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.
17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.
18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.
19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.
22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
KJV
 

[Keras]

Retro, although the Old Testament always refers to God's people as Israel and Judah, with the Advent of Jesus, their rejection of Him and His offering salvation to all who will accept it, the promises and blessings of God now apply to every born again Christian. 

Our heritage; the promises of God:

 

Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have been given our share in the heritage, as was decreed in His design …for it was God’s will that we, who were the first to set our hope on Jesus and to praise His glory.

And, in Christ, you Christians also, once you believed and received the Holy Spirit, the promise of the inheritance that will be ours, when God has redeemed all of His  own, to His glory and praise.

 

Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, the Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises made through Jesus.

 

Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit of God affirms that we are His children and if children, then also the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Jesus, but we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.

Romans 8:19 The Created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed.

 

Our greatest heritage as born again Christians is the promise of eternal life. John 3:16,Titus 3:5-7, +  But we also inherit the Land promises, Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Ezekiel 34:11-31 It is we Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language, that are the vast multitude seen waving palm branches in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9

 

Note: in Romans 8:19, that God’s children are not yet made known, Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and sift the wheat from the chaff. Matthew 3:12 Those  Christians who stood strong in their faith when He comes in fire, Luke 12:49, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, are the wheat that will be gathered into the granary of the holy Land. The chaff of the ungodly peoples will be as ashes under our feet. Isaiah 66:17, Malachi 4:3, 2 Peter 3:7

 

 

 

[Reinitin]

3 hours ago, Abdicate said:

I'm a fairly decent technical troubleshooter. So I tend to tackle issues like this. We have a lot of numbers given to us from the word of God. "One week" - 7 years, 1260 days, 2300 morning and evenings (1150 days), 1290 days, 1335 days, 42 months, and "time, times, half a time". So we have a jigsaw without a picture. Several of these are duplicates. The one I watch are the two sets of 1260 days because together they equal 7 years of 30-day months. However, if you start with 1 Nisan and count 2520 (1260+1260) you get 18 days short of 1 Nisan 7 years later under the current calendar settings.

The first 1260 is the arrival of the Two Witnesses. 

Revelation 11:3 (KJV)
And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.  

After 1260 days, the Antichrist will kill them. From that time, Israel is told to flee to the wilderness for 1260 days.

Revelation 12:6 (KJV)
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.  

To me, they preach 1260 days, are killed and from that time Israel flees for 1260 days into the wilderness. What happens then? Jesus comes.

This is a link to Daniel's "time, times, and half a time":

Revelation 12:14 (KJV)
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.  

Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.  

Daniel 12:7 (KJV)
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.  

So now we have the link of "time, times, and half a time" which equals 3.5 years (3 years 6 months) which is 42 months (12 months x 3 years = 36 months + 6 months = 42 months) or 1260 days / 30 (~1 month) = 42 months. 

Revelation 13:5 (KJV)
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.  

These are all the same length of time:

• "time, times, and half a time"
• 3.5 years
• 42 months
• 1260 days

So here you have the arrival of Two Witnesses, who preach for 1260 days, the Antichrist sets up a convenant with Israel for 7 years (84 months or two sets of 42 months), the Antichrist kills them, and he's given power for 42 months to wear out the saints and Israel is to flee to the wilderness for 1260 days. Such specific numbers tells you that the Tribulation starts with the treat and the Two Witnesses, who are killed half way through, and the Lord returns at the end - 42 months, 1260 days, 3.5 years later.

About those 18 days... the days will be shortened by 8 hours. There are 24 hours in a day. One-third of a day is 8 hours (8+8+8=24). Rev 8:12 says the earth's rotation will be speeded up by 8 hours from the two impacts of the asteroids (Rev 8:8 "mountain", Rev 9:1 "star", Isa 24:19-20). So the time will be shorted by 18 days. 

That's how I see it. As to the number of raptures, one before (1 Thess 4:18; 1 Thess 5:11), the Two Witnesses (Rev 11:12) in the middle, and one at the end for all those that offend (Mat 13:41). I've counted 11 "raptures" in the scripture. To read about them, check out my blog: http://abdicate.net/blog/?p=326

The pre-trib rapture is only for the faithful, and not a right. It's a gift.

 

thank you, ill study it.