Is drinking alcohol a sin?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Clearly though, whether it is the same or not, it was sufficiently alcoholic, that people got drunk on it, as pointed out many times is scripture. 

 Scripture also points out that not all of it was alcoholic and certainly Jesus did not supply  150 gallons of  "alcohol laden  wine" that would have most assuredly caused drunken wedding party. They has already gone through 150 gallons!  The word wine is mentioned in the bible over 200 times. The word wine in its hebrew,greek and latin roots renders all kinds of different meanings.  Meanings  differ all throughout the bible. Some was fermented some wasnt. Some were sweet cakes pressed and sealed with bees wax to preserve and keep from fermenting to use later. Some was mixed with water and some was just plain fruit juice!  I will do an OP sometime in the future  when I get all Ive learned organized.  Stay tuned 

In the meantime, the knowledge is avail to anyone who cares to look into what I have said thus far.

[Sower]

 

Is it a sin to eat/drink?   No.      Is it a sin to be a glutton/drunk?    Yes.

My turn. Let's start with the "causing your brother to stumble" scenario. What do you think about the weaker brethren watching/listening to this thread.  Any problems? What about past threads, where two or more just could not  let it lie, ever after others requested a stop to the never ending badgering. I personally felt a little shame/embarrassment, as a watching/listening  brother.  I understand an out of hand debate, getting in the last word. I also understand addiction. I smoked for fifty one years. When I started everybody smoked, but now it's not PC.(Or Healthy)  I know the shame as a "role model for kids", sneaking around the corner to grab a smoke, between bible study and worship service. And I know all the "smoking jokes" (and shame),  from the pulpit, and from others. I realized that most everybody has some addictions, not seen usually unless it's food, or smoking,  and they (we) just cannot let go of it. I can sympathize.  Most of the "smokers" jokes came from the hundred pound overweight pastor's pulpit. Most Christian smokers/drunks I know or have known,  quit or were trying to quit. How many gossipers, back biters, tale bearers, always angry forum posters, are trying to quit, or even know they have a problem/addiction?  My Sunday school teaching uncle told me, anything the devil can get you hooked on, narcotic, alcohol, sex, work, money, gossip, power, food, etc, is a victory for him.  Most any day, at the end of the day, you will find me sitting on our back porch, usually with my wife, having my allocated one beer. I enjoy the "buzz", although short. I think of the period after my beer as relaxing, free from the intense work day stress. At home, with my wife.  For that brief period, after the days toil, a few minuets of The buzz as some call it. Am I drunk? Gimme a break. Any student of the bible KNOWS what the bible says about drinking, wine, old testament wine,  fermentation, and drunkenness. I'm not going there. There are cautions all over the scriptures. That relate to ALL aspects of life. NOT just the wine issue.  I notice so many in church, at restaurants, in the stores, that are so overweight, and as I judge them, then realize I'm judging them, I confess, and pray for them, as I can sympathize with them. I know firsthand how hard it is to quit lifelong habits. We all deal with pain in our own way. Sometimes it's visible, and embarrassing.

Alcoholism is not a problem at my church, based upon the attitude of the baptist, and my observations. Although, it's said that as Catholics are seen going into the doors of the liquor store, the baptist sneak in through the back door.    The biggest problem I see within the Christian family is not alcoholism, but materialism. A young family has to have everything mom and pop took thirty-forty years to get. The house SUV  furniture, big screen, stainless appliances kids four wheelers,hundred dollar sneakers, etc. etc. So, single income not enough, mom works, others raise the kids, day care, stress, extra jobs, less time for church, family time, and on and on.  In our house, I worked for our income, my wife worked raising/teaching/caring for  the kids.  After work in the shop today, you will probably find me on the porch, reading my grease stained, cigarette burned, beer stained, falling apart, bible with all the different colored marks and scratches, and pictures and notes from my loved ones, stuffed full. I just might have a beer in the other hand. God is light. His word is true. Heed His Warnings. All of them.                                                                                                                                                                                                              

 

 

[other one]

Been through this discussion for 30 years....

 

Good Bye thread.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Gary Lee said:

I enjoy the "buzz", although short. I think of the period after my beer as relaxing, free from the intense work day stress. At home, with my wife.  For that brief period, after the days toil, a few minuets of The buzz as some call it. Am I drunk? Gimme a break. Any student of the bible KNOWS what the bible says about drinking, wine, old testament wine,  fermentation, and drunkenness. I'm not going there.

But you did go there! That buzzing in your head wasnt a bee. 

Do you suppose they knew the word buzz back in biblical days or did they call it as it is? 

I am a serious student of the bible and I know for a fact wine is a generic term with many roots used in many different contexts rendering its meaning different . Oh, but Im not going there.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Running Gator said:

I am a little confused by this post as opposed to your other post in this thread.  

In other post you seem to imply that the actions of a person (in this case drinking a beer) could cause another Christian to stumble.  Yet in this post you seem to imply that one cannot be made to stumble by another person.   

Could you explain which view it is that you hold?

Is anger your weakness? Im not in charge of your fruit.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

The question is why. OK, we all do many things that can go in that category.

 

But in my opinion alcohol is not something we would like to flirt with. The gap of drinking the right amount and drinking too much seems pretty narrow, then we can easily see ourselves under dominion of alcohol earlier than we thought. We see people doing bad things (works of the flesh) when under its dominion on the news and in our daily lives.

 

Then I see too many reasons to abstain from alcohol, the risks clearly outweighs any benefit.

Amen! It is playing with fire. Its kind of difficult to avoid the buzz from even just one beer !

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

 

[Sower]

6 minutes ago, Blueyedjewel said:

34 minutes ago, Gary Lee said:

I enjoy the "buzz", although short. I think of the period after my beer as relaxing, free from the intense work day stress. At home, with my wife.  For that brief period, after the days toil, a few minuets of The buzz as some call it. Am I drunk? Gimme a break. Any student of the bible KNOWS what the bible says about drinking, wine, old testament wine,  fermentation, and drunkenness. I'm not going there.

But you did go there! That buzzing in your head wasnt a bee. 

Do you suppose they knew the word buzz back in biblical days or did they call it as it is? 

I am a serious student of the bible and I know for a fact wine is a generic term with many roots used in many different contexts rendering its meaning different . Oh, but Im not going there.

I said buzz as "some here call it" yourself included. I, referred to it as relaxing, as I see it. There is no argument here. You say you are a serious student of the bible. That is a good thing. I know you understand what it means when the bible says "Be not drunk with wine"  What would that imply?  Can you understand then  when someone says they do not want to debate the wine issue, even with an astute bible student. I answered the OP. The first line.  Then elaborated my take on the issue of "Don't drink, dance, smoke or chew. Or hang out with those who do" thing.  I try not to stand on the corner and shout to the Lord to look at all those things I don't do. He knows all those things I do,  do. I'm striking my breast about those things. Would you have me to cease from my daily beer with my wife based upon your understanding of "The BUZZ" I was raised by an alcoholic father, in a dysfunctional home.  God has forgiven me, I have forgiven my father. Alcohol was his way with dealing with his pain. I tried to show how I view how myself and others, that we  should also remember to heed all God's warnings.  Eat, but not to excess. Drink, but not to excess. Work, but not to excess, and so on. I'm sorry for you that I don't see it your way, but I will answer for my own decisions. I appreciate your sincere concern.

[Guest Wanda01]

I can only answer for myself. A little background: I was raised in a family of drunkards, and given my first drink of alcohol, at a young age. By 15 I was drinking regularly, yes, to excess. I have large gaps in my memory from years that I cannot remember. Some things I do remember that I wish I could forget. 15 years later at the age of 30, I was set free. I am healed, forgiven, and a new creature now in Christ Jesus. There's no going back for me, and I know if I were to drink so much as a sip, it's a possibility I could be right back where I never want to be. 

James 4:17 comes to mind, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

For me, I know not to drink. It would be a sin. So therefore I don't. It's as simple as that. 

But I know that each person is different and in a different place in their walk. A glass of wine for me, would be bad. That's not necessarily the case for my spiritual brother or sister; that is between them and God.

[Omegaman 3.0]

OK,

This thread already had a lot in it, with varying opinions. The original post, is really a simple question, not looking for a lot of nuance. However, since opinions vary, there is debate. Seem to me, that this thread has evolved, predictably, in to several different topic, such as:

• Is it a sin to drink, versus is it a sin only if one gets drunk.

• Was wine in the Bible, alcoholic – sometimes, always, never

• Are Christians who drink, stumbling others?

• Are Christians who say it is okay to drink, stumbling others?

There are others, but that is enough for me to comment on, and exit the thread I think.

To the first, the Bible never says it is a sin to drink. The Bible does say, that excessiveness is to be avoided, and certainly drunkenness is also forbidden to Christians.

Is wine in the Bible Alcoholic? Certainly at least sometimes, even often it is, is it always, maybe not. Sugar is what becomes alcohol in the fermentation process. Without someway to sterilize, or refrigerate fruit juices (fruit contains fructose, which will ferment) it will turn to alcohol. Even fruit lying on the ground, becomes alcoholic without help. Monkeys and elephants, can get drunk off fallen fruit, so can people, and since there was no refrigeration, wine would become alcoholic in short order, in a climate such as Israel had/has. When the fermentation continues, the alcohol converts to vinegar, that is just how it works.

You see in the Bible, references, Old and New Testaments, that new wine in old wineskins, burst the wineskins, that is because the fermentation process, produces gases that build pressure in a sealed leather bag, that cannot stretch any further. From these references then, we see that alcohol, is a normal thing to have happening.

Some have said that wine was not like it is today, or may not have been alcoholic. Let's grant that premise, even if it is not well supported scripturally. Since this thread was not about wine, but alcohol, let's consider another term the Bible uses - “Strong Drink”, and then look at a curious passage that uses that term.

Concerning tithing, the Bible allowed for Jews to convert there tithe to money, so that they could bring it to Jerusalem and then:

And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.

Simple question:

If the Lord allowed for the Jews to turn their tithes into cash (Deut 14) to buy strong drink with . . . how can anyone say, that drinking alcohol is a sin?

Regarding the issue of stumbling. Paul says it is best to avoid behaviors, if those behaviors will encourage others to go against their conscience. There, it is not about whether the behavior is right or wrong, restricted or not, it is about whether one's behavior is going to lead someone to violate their conscience. Violation one's conscience, is sin, so we should not engage in practices, that even if we are allowed to do, would encourage others to go against what they believe is not o.k.

Paul refers to these people as weaker (in faith I imagine) and we should not be selfish in the exercise of our faith, to encourage our weaker brethren to sin. To my way of thinking, that should be a short term goal, as the longer term alternative, is to edify our brothers and sisters, to build up their faith, so that they have to confidence that comes from knowledge, about our freedom in Christ.

There are those, however, who are aware from experience, that they can become addicted, or will likely get drunk if they start down that path, and of course it should go without saying, that the loving thing to do is to help them stay on the wagon, not shove them off.

Let us always be building others up, in love, and at the same time, let us who may feel that drinking is a sin, not judge others, who believe it is okay, for them.

[shanee]

Pro 20:1  Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.