missmuffet Posted August 13, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2017 I am to be corrected. Jesus was "impeccable" therefore He could not have sinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted August 13, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2017 On 8/10/2017 at 10:27 PM, Seanc said: In reference to Luke CH 4 when Satan tempted Jesus, was it possible for him to give in to that temptation and sin? To clarify, could(not would) Jesus go against his divine nature? Have an idea of the answer but would love to hear your responses and scripture to support it. Thanks Yes, If he had followed his flesh or listened to Satan it would be sin. But with God in him and him following God. He was unable to be misled by the sin nature or the devil . John 5:19 Then Jesus replied, “•I assure you: The Son is not able to do anything on His own, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does,the Son also does these things in the same way.v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted August 14, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2017 4 hours ago, warrior12 said: What does this mean, perfection.  All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.  Because of the sinful nature that is of the flesh, even though we have been redeemed, we are still have the the elements and the devil to tempt and test us which can be overwhelming at times. There are millions of christians in the world today to testify of this as it is a reality of today.   Christ did walk on water, which no man could do, he did command the winds to cease which no man could do.  Show me a man that never sinned, only one and that was Christ, because he came to fulfill scripture and be the perfect sacrifice that we know from Bible history.  Christ did not sin, because he was perfect, and there is no, not one other perfect man. 2Peter 1:2-4  â€Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,â€Â According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that â€pertain†unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:â€Â  â€Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.â€Â Perfection? What do you mean by perfection? Remember, it was Jesus who said "be ye perfect even as my Father in heaven is perfect". From the verses above I have available to me all the creative power of God to recreate me in the image of Christ. Peter also said that the church will be without spot and without blemish when Christ comes. This does not mean sinless perfection, for yes, we are still human and susceptible to the weaknesses of 6000 years of hereditary decay, but that does not mean we are not able to overcome our selfish carnal natures, cease from sinning by the power of God working in us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted August 14, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Abdicate said: I have to disagree. The reasoning is, if Jesus couldn't sin, then He was never truly tempted, and thereby not 100% man. Also, God doesn't have to learn anything, but Jesus did, Heb 5:8. Jesus is God without a doubt, but He chose not to use His Authority. Without the Authority, the only advantage Jesus had over us, is that He was born sinless. Also, by maintaining "He used His Authority as God to live sinless" it allows an excuse to continue sinning. The "I can't stop sinning because I'm not God" is the excuse people give. he was tempted in all things and without sin. Jesus said "i am in the father and the father is in me. there are lots of verses that say no evil is in God, no wickedness can stand in his presence. Of course he was fully man but he wasnt from the seed of man. I think he didnt inherit the sin nature. He wasn't ever satans seed like we are. He was from the Father, heavenly seed. Its what scrupture tells me. he was like Adam before sin entered him. Edited August 14, 2017 by Reinitin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted August 14, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2017 16 minutes ago, Abdicate said: I have to disagree. The reasoning is, if Jesus couldn't sin, then He was never truly tempted, and thereby not 100% man. Also, God doesn't have to learn anything, but Jesus did, Heb 5:8. Jesus is God without a doubt, but He chose not to use His Authority. Without the Authority, the only advantage Jesus had over us, is that He was born sinless. Also, by maintaining "He used His Authority as God to live sinless" it allows an excuse to continue sinning. The "I can't stop sinning because I'm not God" is the excuse people give. well, just cause people use something for an excuse it doesn't make it untrue. We are born with a sin nature inherited from Adams seed passed down from our fathers. Jesus wasnt born of earthy seed. His nature was recieved from God. His flesh like ours was weak, he was hungry, he was thirsty, he got tired, he had emotions, he felt pain and he bled, he loved and felt loss, he could be killed. But you never could say about him what is true about us "your like your father the devil, he has been a liar since the begining". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted August 14, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Abdicate said: I understand what you're saying. But Adam sinned and he was without wickedness. You have to understand what sin is. It's to "miss the mark" in Hebrew. Man has a gift from God - choice. If Jesus wants us to follow in His steps, then He must have suffered the power of temptation as we do or He's unfairly expecting too much of us. You're missing the point of His humanity. He bled, He cried, He tired, He hungered, He agonized over the crucifixion. God wouldn't do any of this in His Authority. He put it all aside and therefore could be tempted. well what i think does not make Hebrews untrue. we come to our Lord in filthy rages of unrightiousness, trapped in this body of sin walking a path to death in darkness because of sin. John 17 Christ in us. We recieve heavenly seed into this earthen vessle we are in Christ and Christ in us. A new man, a new spirit. Gods plan to make us in his likeness. We do not know what Christ will be when he returns But we will be like him. We can walk by the Spirit and not satisfy the lust of the flesh if we make it our mission and we dont get proud about it and know it is not from us but the power if God unto salvation Christ in us. Edited August 14, 2017 by Reinitin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted August 14, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2017 24 minutes ago, Abdicate said: I'm sorry I'm not articulate enough to help you understand what I'm trying to say. My last attempt is to say, Jesus paved a path for us to follow, just like Him. Amen except we wernt born with Christ in us. He was born with Father in Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 15, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2017 I rather think the bibilcal point is he DID NOT sin. Woulda coulda shoulda what if... don't really matter. It's a good question, don't get me wrong... An argument can be made that he had the option, and even as deity he could have said my will not your will be done otherwise his submission to the Father would be robotic. Also never forget he was born sinless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted August 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,362 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,335 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2017 I think the debate addresses two separate issues. 1) Was it within Jesus power to sin? The answer is yes. Sin is a choice stemming from free-will. God has ultimate free-will, and therefore has the power to do whatever he chooses. The tricky bit here is to decide whether or not it is still sin if Jesus does it - since we judge sin against the Holiness of God. If God does it, can it still be called sin? 2) Could Jesus sin given His divine nature? The answer is no. He could be tempted (i.e. His human flesh might desire to sin), but He could not succumb to that temptation. An analogy might be those people who can't bring themselves to kill animals - even under threat of death (or asking a parent to kill a beloved child). It is within their power, but many couldn't bring themselves to do it - even if it costs their own life. The distinction is that humans are corruptible, whereas God is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 On 8/14/2017 at 11:00 PM, JohnD said: I rather think the bibilcal point is he DID NOT sin. Woulda coulda shoulda what if... don't really matter. It's a good question, don't get me wrong... An argument can be made that he had the option, and even as deity he could have said my will not your will be done otherwise his submission to the Father would be robotic. Also never forget he was born sinless. And he possesses an Omniscient mind. Could he have sinned? I believe in the incarnation he was and is 100% human. But he is also that Omniscient God I mentioned in his Spirit. You can't win at Poker playing against an Omniscient opponent. Even the devil knew this, his only hope was to defeat God through his people. The tree temptations of Christ were three tests (like testing a bridge to prove to the world it is trustworthy). Although there are some who believe it was also about disqualification... if the devil could so incense Jesus the man to destroy the devil with the power of God the Word it would have disqualified him as the Savior of mankind. I've participated in this debate and it gets down to nitty gritty details as to whether or not disqualified meant sin or not. A matter of point of view I suppose. Which is why I stand by the quote above.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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