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According to the word of God, there will be no Rapture!


Bro.Tan

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On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 5:53 PM, Reinitin said:

Brother Rick, 

I saw that you quoted part of Dr Coopers Golden Rule of bible interpretation. I lost it though cause i was blasted with several quotes. I agree with you. He is a prudent servant of the Lord and very skilled in translation and study of the word of God.

One suggestion though. read all his rules. He gives different rules  then you listed for studying prophecy. scripture interprets scripture, prophecy is not open to mans interpretations, in the original laugage it stands as Absolute Truth exactley as God relayed it to the prophets. Read his rules. Im paraphrasing him because its been a long time since i decided his rules are golden and memorized them. I might not be renembering all his rules for studying prophecy. but the rules are different then the ones you listed for studing bible instruction to us.

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

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7 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

okay but we are talking prophecy. He gives a different set of rules for rightly dividing prophecy.

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4 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

Rick you didnt quote all his rules on post and your breaking his rule and quoting him out of context anyway. I dont think you read his book If your picking up the NIV or KJV to use his rule then you do not understand him at all. Conservative Scholars use his rules to interprate the original text in the original language. Dr Cooper was never satisfied with having to accept translations of the Scriptures done by others, he majored in Hebrew and Greek, taking both at the same time-seven and a half years of each. His Greek professor was Dr. A.T. Robertson, still considered by many as the greatest Greek grammarian who ever lived.  his intense study of the Old Testament and his unusual fluency in the old Biblical languages, coupled with his unwavering conviction that the Bible is God's Word, inerrant in its original languages a saying exactly what God meant for it to say. Im pretty sure His rules are for study in hebrew and greek. 

these are just some of his rules. you can learn to study in greek and hebrew like a schokar all the classes he taught and books he wrote and text he translated is on ariel

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5 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

This is Dr Coopers words. I do study in greek and hebrew and studied his advise and have used it 20 years. I do not think you are representing him accuratly.

Dr Cooper "Our Bible has been translated by scholars out of the original Hebrew and Greek into the English. The American Revised Version is probably the best translation to date — although there are places where it can be improved. It is the work of fallible men, and all men make mistakes. Nevertheless, it is, in my judgment, the best we have. The English reader must study hard and long if he is to get the real message of this excellent translation.

The Bible is God's revelation to man. We have every reason to believe that, not only the thoughts were inspired, but also the very words by which the ideas were expressed in the original tongues were given infallibly by the Spirit. Thus the sacred writers combined spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. The Lord said exactly what He meant and meant just what He said. The prophets and the Apostles spoke in the language of the people to whom they ministered. At the same time their messages were poured into the moulds of the thought forms of the messengers and those to whom they ministered. The Lord had a very definite idea to convey whenever He made a statement. For instance, let us read the first verse of the Scriptures: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” In the phrase “In the beginning,” the time element of the creation is given. God the Creator is mentioned in the noun, the subject of the verb. What He did is expressed by the word, created—the bringing into existence that which prior to the act, had no form or substance. The heavens and the earth are the things that are said to have been created in the beginning. This is one of the most profound statements to be found anywhere. It is exact and definite. It is crystal clear, so very much so that it refutes the basic assumptions of most modern philosophies.

We could take any statement found in the Scriptures and see that it has a definite, specific meaning. The purpose which we should cherish is to learn exactly what is said, to arrive at the precise idea of the inspired writer.

Spiritual Requirements

The Bible is a spiritual book and must be spiritually discerned. The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit; for he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. There are therefore certain spiritual qualifications which a person must possess if he is to understand the revelation of God.

First and foremost, I would say that the first prerequisite is a person's loving God. God made of one man every person to dwell upon the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons and the bounds of their habitations that they should seek God. All men have a thirst for God, though it is generally perverted beyond recognition by inheritance and by one's seeking pleasure in sin. Man's seeking his own pleasure is the result of this perverted love of God and of man's ignorance. What he wants is satisfaction, contentment, rest, joy. These can be found in God alone."

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1 hour ago, Reinitin said:

Rick you didnt quote all his rules on post and your breaking his rule and quoting him out of context anyway. I dont think you read his book If your picking up the NIV or KJV to use his rule then you do not understand him at all. Conservative Scholars use his rules to interprate the original text in the original language. Dr Cooper was never satisfied with having to accept translations of the Scriptures done by others, he majored in Hebrew and Greek, taking both at the same time-seven and a half years of each. His Greek professor was Dr. A.T. Robertson, still considered by many as the greatest Greek grammarian who ever lived.  his intense study of the Old Testament and his unusual fluency in the old Biblical languages, coupled with his unwavering conviction that the Bible is God's Word, inerrant in its original languages a saying exactly what God meant for it to say. Im pretty sure His rules are for study in hebrew and greek. 

these are just some of his rules. you can learn to study in greek and hebrew like a schokar all the classes he taught and books he wrote and text he translated is on ariel

For your information, I have Mr. Kelly's written consent to use him material, have posted such permission on this site, and do not represent his writings as my own. You slander Mr. Kelly, who is now dead and can't defend himself. 

As for Mr. Cooper, I did read all the links that you give, and stick to my position as to how to properly discern the Word. You can accuse me all you want, but nothing you can say or do will change my belief in dispensationalism or the Rapture. Since you have chosen to change the subject and attack me, I am finished with you!! Have a good life.

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47 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

For your information, I have Mr. Kelly's written consent to use him material, have posted such permission on this site, and do not represent his writings as my own. You slander Mr. Kelly, who is now dead and can't defend himself. 

As for Mr. Cooper, I did read all the links that you give, and stick to my position as to how to properly discern the Word. You can accuse me all you want, but nothing you can say or do will change my belief in dispensationalism or the Rapture. Since you have chosen to change the subject and attack me, I am finished with you!! Have a good life.

Im not trying to be argumebative but think about tge eationality of it. You quoting a couple of like 500 of dr coopers rule one of them is interoret every primary word in context to validate an argument on the rapture and righty interoerate the book of revelation that absoleutly does not have one word refering to the rapture.

 So what if you have his consent, and when did you get his conent jack kelly has been dead awhile.  i would like to see where he gave you permissions to quote his words as your own. You said I believe then posted kelly's blog. you didnt say jack kelly blogs on the doctrine of once saved alwYs saved and has written some articles for rapture ready a popular rapture predicting website. I totally agree with the points he makes in his personal blog.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/11/2017 at 10:16 PM, Bro.Tan said:

why doesn't the word Rapture appear in the Bible?

It does... In the Latin version.  (Keep in mind, English isn't the authorized language of Scripture.). In English it is often translated "caught up," or something similar.  The Greek word harpazo, the Latin word raptum, and the English caught-up are all the same word.  In Spanish, it's rapto, the Germans say Entrukung, in France, they say ravissement.  By your stating that "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible is like someone of another language proclaiming that "caught up isn't in the Bible, therefore it's a myth.". You would think them to be completely ignorant by making such a statement based solely on their native language.  

If you base your doctrine solely on English translations without making any attempt to understand what the word actually means, then you're going to have an extremely limited understanding of God's Word.

There are actually numerous uses of the word harpazo in the New Testament, and an equivalent Hebrew word in the Old Testament.  The word simply means to be grabbed and taken up, or away.  When we stand before God' s throne in Heaven, how do we get there?  We're "taken" to it.  That's all it means, bro.  Philip was "harpazo'd" after speaking to the eunuch... 

Oh, and I suppose instead of the Latin transliteration of raptum, we could transliterate the Greek harpazo... Except that such a word exists in English but was unfortunately used to describe the process of catching whales, and then being used to describe the tool they use to catch them and pull them out of the water....... Yep, harpazo is where we get the word "harpoon.". 

Kinda makes ya' like the sound of rapture after all, huh?.........  Or just say it in English- " caught up."

 

Shalom bro'

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Rapture is simply cathing leftovers of Christians after resurrecting these many billions of saved ones through thousands of years .

 

If you don't believe in rapture , then you wish us either all to die so we can be resurrected or you wish us that Jesus never came back to resurrect people .

 

1) If we all had to die then Jesus would commit murder killing us so we could be resurrected with new bodies , this way God would sin so we know this option is not possible .

2) Option number 2 that Jesus will not come back is against Scriptures (John 6:40), so we are only left with one option that your assumption that rapture does not exist is not following both logic and Scriptures .

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, GusWilby said:

It does... In the Latin version.  (Keep in mind, English isn't the authorized language of Scripture.). In English it is often translated "caught up," or something similar.  The Greek word harpazo, the Latin word raptum, and the English caught-up are all the same word.  In Spanish, it's rapto, the Germans say Entrukung, in France, they say ravissement.  By your stating that "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible is like someone of another language proclaiming that "caught up isn't in the Bible, therefore it's a myth.". You would think them to be completely ignorant by making such a statement based solely on their native language.  

If you base your doctrine solely on English translations without making any attempt to understand what the word actually means, then you're going to have an extremely limited understanding of God's Word.

There are actually numerous uses of the word harpazo in the New Testament, and an equivalent Hebrew word in the Old Testament.  The word simply means to be grabbed and taken up, or away.  When we stand before God' s throne in Heaven, how do we get there?  We're "taken" to it.  That's all it means, bro.  Philip was "harpazo'd" after speaking to the eunuch... 

Oh, and I suppose instead of the Latin transliteration of raptum, we could transliterate the Greek harpazo... Except that such a word exists in English but was unfortunately used to describe the process of catching whales, and then being used to describe the tool they use to catch them and pull them out of the water....... Yep, harpazo is where we get the word "harpoon.". 

Kinda makes ya' like the sound of rapture after all, huh?.........  Or just say it in English- " caught up."

 

Shalom bro'

Hi...understand, that there is a Doctrine concerning the word Rapture, which brings forth a different understanding of the word of God. I understand what you are saying but It's best to stick with the words that are written in the Bible because of this confusing in the world of God. For example some people say, "Jesus is going to rapture us up to Heaven where he is" and when I ask them where they get that from, they quote 1Thessalonians 4:13-17, to make a point or justify the rapture.13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now this is called the first resurrection, not raptured, or caught up, but first resurrection. Why? Because the dead is being raised with those that are living at this time. Then, I can go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Next, I can go to 1 Thessalonians 3:13  To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

I hope this help you get some good understand of how the word of God connects, using the words, in the word of God.

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I think the 'rapture' thing was from one guy in the 1800's. And it took off because we all like the idea of the great elevator in the sky coming to pick us up when the fridge breaks and the TV remote fails us.

I think that the 'tribulation' and the "Wrath of God" are somehow mixed in with the rapture end-time thing. It is preached very often from pulpits that seem unaware of prophesy and the events that are well foretold along with The Feasts that we seem to have forgotten about.

They are all really relevant I think and really, can you witness in the current vacuum of prophetic-less time-lines?

We even subscribe to the Roman idea of Good Friday and not the scriptural ACTUAL three days in the tomb.

We may have missed much of what the 'old testament' tells us of times, seasons, feast days and Sabbaths. We might do well to study some of this well and come to terms with the idea that the Lord God gave us ALL scripture for edification and admonition and warnings.

The timeline is Perfect as He is Perfect. It has no error. It was written/foretold by men in our time, that were gifted so as to write from His time-line perspective. From the End, we are to read prophesy towards the NOW. Since He is the Alpha and Omega, He gives us information from His perspective of inhabiting the end and all places in between.

On my pilots knee-pad I had written. "Don't worry, God's already been there".

"Eye hath not seen, or ear heard..."

 

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