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Bro.Tan

According to the word of God, there will be no Rapture!

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Dennis1209    274
15 hours ago, Abdicate said:

I already did... they just ignore the facts and stick to traditions. 

I forgot whom said it but, "facts are stubborn things." 

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Daniel 11:36    293

Wait and see .... the Lord has promised this event

Better not refute Him [Matthew 25:1-13; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and He will keep you from the coming tribulation by making you immortal just before

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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Bro.Tan    26

Now lets take a look and see what we got here, first let me start by saying there is no rapture ok.

Lets go into Acts 1: 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

So now we know how Jesus is coming back, of course not by himself, now let us take a look at the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

Lets get another look at it in, Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

At this point, notice in verse 15, and also Revelation 1:7, how all this ties together and these people trying to hide from the Lord, maybe they should be trying to repent or maybe its to late. Remind you that the Lord haven"t descend yet, he just sitting in heaven looking at them. This is just about the end of the great tribulation

Now lets bring the Lord down...1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets make some sense out of this, Verse 15, this is talking about the dead and those who are still alive and both are coming back with Jesus. So if it was a rapture, it wouldn’t make sense at this point, for one the great tribulation is about over, second, the dead is being raise also with those that are alive, which is now called the first resurrection. Verse 16. The Lord is descending which means coming down from the Third Heaven, the voice of archangel and trumpet are sound, and then the dead in Christ shall rise first. Which also means that there will arise the dead again at another time, and what’s the point of rapture at this point anyway…the dead is coming back and the great tribulation is about over. Heres the good parts (Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump).

Lets take a look at that trump that is sounded....1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Now we see how all this verses and scriptures connection with each other. Last Verse 17. Now we will meet the Lord in the clouds, those that are dead in Christ and those who are still alive and made it out the great tribulation or out of the place of safety (wilderness).

Lets go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints

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Daniel 11:36    293

Matthew 24 is the revealing of the 70th week still to come .... Israel is the subject

The Lord will immortalize all of His own just before .... no doubt

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Rick_Parker    1,223
On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 5:53 PM, Reinitin said:

Brother Rick, 

I saw that you quoted part of Dr Coopers Golden Rule of bible interpretation. I lost it though cause i was blasted with several quotes. I agree with you. He is a prudent servant of the Lord and very skilled in translation and study of the word of God.

One suggestion though. read all his rules. He gives different rules  then you listed for studying prophecy. scripture interprets scripture, prophecy is not open to mans interpretations, in the original laugage it stands as Absolute Truth exactley as God relayed it to the prophets. Read his rules. Im paraphrasing him because its been a long time since i decided his rules are golden and memorized them. I might not be renembering all his rules for studying prophecy. but the rules are different then the ones you listed for studing bible instruction to us.

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

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Reinitin    1,436
7 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

okay but we are talking prophecy. He gives a different set of rules for rightly dividing prophecy.

Edited by Reinitin

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Reinitin    1,436
4 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

Rick you didnt quote all his rules on post and your breaking his rule and quoting him out of context anyway. I dont think you read his book If your picking up the NIV or KJV to use his rule then you do not understand him at all. Conservative Scholars use his rules to interprate the original text in the original language. Dr Cooper was never satisfied with having to accept translations of the Scriptures done by others, he majored in Hebrew and Greek, taking both at the same time-seven and a half years of each. His Greek professor was Dr. A.T. Robertson, still considered by many as the greatest Greek grammarian who ever lived.  his intense study of the Old Testament and his unusual fluency in the old Biblical languages, coupled with his unwavering conviction that the Bible is God's Word, inerrant in its original languages a saying exactly what God meant for it to say. Im pretty sure His rules are for study in hebrew and greek. 

these are just some of his rules. you can learn to study in greek and hebrew like a schokar all the classes he taught and books he wrote and text he translated is on ariel

Edited by Reinitin

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Reinitin    1,436
5 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

This quote is by Dr. Cooper in his study An Exposition of the Book of Revelation "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in he light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise."

"Do you know that much harm has been done by those who study the book of Revelation who do not observe this general, fundamental rule? As it states, we are to take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the acts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, indicate clearly otherwise. We are never to say that a passage is figurative unless the facts of the context indicate that fact. Only when there is positive evidence that a passage is not used in a literal sense are we justified in departing from the ordinary, literal meaning. We should make allowances for figures of speech in the prophetic Word the same as we do in the historical portions of the Scriptures. Also, Whenever the facts of a context indicate that a passage is used in a symbolic sense, we are to interpret the symbol according to God's significance which He attaches to the same."

So, it appears that he does not have different rules for studying Prophecy as you suggest. My problem is, and remains to be, is the OP's suggestion that there will be no Rapture. This is clearly a false teaching and is to be ignored and/or challenged for what it is.

This is Dr Coopers words. I do study in greek and hebrew and studied his advise and have used it 20 years. I do not think you are representing him accuratly.

Dr Cooper "Our Bible has been translated by scholars out of the original Hebrew and Greek into the English. The American Revised Version is probably the best translation to date — although there are places where it can be improved. It is the work of fallible men, and all men make mistakes. Nevertheless, it is, in my judgment, the best we have. The English reader must study hard and long if he is to get the real message of this excellent translation.

The Bible is God's revelation to man. We have every reason to believe that, not only the thoughts were inspired, but also the very words by which the ideas were expressed in the original tongues were given infallibly by the Spirit. Thus the sacred writers combined spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. The Lord said exactly what He meant and meant just what He said. The prophets and the Apostles spoke in the language of the people to whom they ministered. At the same time their messages were poured into the moulds of the thought forms of the messengers and those to whom they ministered. The Lord had a very definite idea to convey whenever He made a statement. For instance, let us read the first verse of the Scriptures: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” In the phrase “In the beginning,” the time element of the creation is given. God the Creator is mentioned in the noun, the subject of the verb. What He did is expressed by the word, created—the bringing into existence that which prior to the act, had no form or substance. The heavens and the earth are the things that are said to have been created in the beginning. This is one of the most profound statements to be found anywhere. It is exact and definite. It is crystal clear, so very much so that it refutes the basic assumptions of most modern philosophies.

We could take any statement found in the Scriptures and see that it has a definite, specific meaning. The purpose which we should cherish is to learn exactly what is said, to arrive at the precise idea of the inspired writer.

Spiritual Requirements

The Bible is a spiritual book and must be spiritually discerned. The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit; for he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. There are therefore certain spiritual qualifications which a person must possess if he is to understand the revelation of God.

First and foremost, I would say that the first prerequisite is a person's loving God. God made of one man every person to dwell upon the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons and the bounds of their habitations that they should seek God. All men have a thirst for God, though it is generally perverted beyond recognition by inheritance and by one's seeking pleasure in sin. Man's seeking his own pleasure is the result of this perverted love of God and of man's ignorance. What he wants is satisfaction, contentment, rest, joy. These can be found in God alone."

Edited by Reinitin

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Rick_Parker    1,223
1 hour ago, Reinitin said:

Rick you didnt quote all his rules on post and your breaking his rule and quoting him out of context anyway. I dont think you read his book If your picking up the NIV or KJV to use his rule then you do not understand him at all. Conservative Scholars use his rules to interprate the original text in the original language. Dr Cooper was never satisfied with having to accept translations of the Scriptures done by others, he majored in Hebrew and Greek, taking both at the same time-seven and a half years of each. His Greek professor was Dr. A.T. Robertson, still considered by many as the greatest Greek grammarian who ever lived.  his intense study of the Old Testament and his unusual fluency in the old Biblical languages, coupled with his unwavering conviction that the Bible is God's Word, inerrant in its original languages a saying exactly what God meant for it to say. Im pretty sure His rules are for study in hebrew and greek. 

these are just some of his rules. you can learn to study in greek and hebrew like a schokar all the classes he taught and books he wrote and text he translated is on ariel

For your information, I have Mr. Kelly's written consent to use him material, have posted such permission on this site, and do not represent his writings as my own. You slander Mr. Kelly, who is now dead and can't defend himself. 

As for Mr. Cooper, I did read all the links that you give, and stick to my position as to how to properly discern the Word. You can accuse me all you want, but nothing you can say or do will change my belief in dispensationalism or the Rapture. Since you have chosen to change the subject and attack me, I am finished with you!! Have a good life.

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Reinitin    1,436
47 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

For your information, I have Mr. Kelly's written consent to use him material, have posted such permission on this site, and do not represent his writings as my own. You slander Mr. Kelly, who is now dead and can't defend himself. 

As for Mr. Cooper, I did read all the links that you give, and stick to my position as to how to properly discern the Word. You can accuse me all you want, but nothing you can say or do will change my belief in dispensationalism or the Rapture. Since you have chosen to change the subject and attack me, I am finished with you!! Have a good life.

Im not trying to be argumebative but think about tge eationality of it. You quoting a couple of like 500 of dr coopers rule one of them is interoret every primary word in context to validate an argument on the rapture and righty interoerate the book of revelation that absoleutly does not have one word refering to the rapture.

 So what if you have his consent, and when did you get his conent jack kelly has been dead awhile.  i would like to see where he gave you permissions to quote his words as your own. You said I believe then posted kelly's blog. you didnt say jack kelly blogs on the doctrine of once saved alwYs saved and has written some articles for rapture ready a popular rapture predicting website. I totally agree with the points he makes in his personal blog.

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