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Book of Enoch


Zoltan777

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6 hours ago, other one said:

MM,  the Bible speaks of the knowledge that is contained in those three books...   and even quotes 1Enoch in at least one place.   The books were in wide circulation during the time of Jesus.  Parts of many copies were found in the dead sea scrolls.     Maybe God just released the book back to us at his timing for it's time for us to understand that part of it all.   Most of the people I know who accept the books do not say that they should necessarily be included in the Bible, but the knowledge that was contained in them should be available as it was in the days of Jesus so as to better understand what parts of the Bible are talking about.....   most of us are just saying that we need the mind set of the people it was written to to fully understand.    

You may disagree with that and it's ok if you do, but most of us are not trying to get 1 Enoch, Jubilees and the Book of Giants canonized...  

Your choice. Life is full of them.

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2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Never knew until recently that there were a significant number of believers who think the earth is flat.  Not sure what we are to do about those who circumnavigate the earth in airplanes or boats and end up where they started from without falling off the edge of the planet..........or satellites which orbit the earth and send back pictures of a beautiful globe.  The more we learn about creation, the more it just makes me glorify God and see how He does all things well.  And He is the one who said knowledge would increase in the last days.  Not that we lean on that kind of knowledge, or need to argue about it any more than we need to argue about politics......because we have a higher calling and a citizenship elsewhere, not of the physical realm.  BUT if we are hounding and persecuting present day scientists in the same wrong spirit that the Roman church used to persecute the earlier scientists, then, I'd feel remiss if i didn't point out that "Houston, we have a problem."

 

The flat earth thing is NOT Biblical.  I posted the meaning of thee original words in Scripture which mean 'sphere' in archaic languages.  It was ignored by the flat earth theorists.  All of the photos and narratives by scientists and astronauts are ignored.  I can only surmise that this is an unholy attempt by satan to confuse and sow discord even if the proponents don't realize it.  And it makes Christians look backwards and ignorant. I cannot find 'flat earth' in the Book of Enoch either.

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Quote

Spiritual Meaning of Earth, Land

That the earth signifies the region where the church is, and therefore those who live there, may be confirmed by the following passages from the Word, in addition to those already cited. In Jeremiah:--

Thus hath said Jehovah, The whole earth shall be desolate; yet will I not make a consummation. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above shall be black (Jeremiah 4:27, 28).

Here the earth denotes those who dwell where the church is that is vastated. In Isaiah:--

I will move the heavens, and the earth shall be shaken out of her place (Isaiah 13:13).

The earth denotes the man who is to be vastated, where the church is. In Jeremiah:--

The slain of Jehovah shall be at that day from the end of the earth even unto the end of the earth (Jeremiah 25:33).

Here the end of the earth does not signify the whole world, but only the region where the church was, and consequently the men who were of the church. Again:--

I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth; a tumult shall come even to the end of the earth; for Jehovah hath a controversy with the nations (Jeremiah 25:29, 31).

In this passage, in like manner, the whole world is not meant, but only the region where the church is, and therefore the inhabitant or man of the church; the nations here denote falsities. In Isaiah:--

Behold, Jehovah cometh forth out of His place to visit the iniquity of the inhabitant of the earth (Isaiah 26:21).

Here the meaning is the same. Again:--

Have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood the foundations of the earth? (Isaiah 40:21).

Again:--

Jehovah, that createth the heavens, God Himself that formeth the earth and maketh it, He establisheth it (Isaiah 45:18).

The earth denotes the man of the church. In Zechariah:--

The saying of Jehovah, who stretcheth out the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man in the midst of him (Zechariah 12:1),

where the earth manifestly denotes the man of the church. The earth is distinguished from the ground as are the man of the church and the church itself, or as are love and faith.

from AC 662

That by earth or land is signified man, consequently the church, which is of man, may be seen in Malachi:--

All nations shall call you happy; for ye shall be a delightsome land (Malachi 3:12).

That earth denotes the church is seen in Isaiah:--

Have ye not understood the foundations of the earth? (Isaiah 40:21),

where the foundations of the earth denote the foundations of the church. Again:--

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth (Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; Rev. 21:1).

New heavens and a new earth denote the kingdom of the Lord and the church. In Zechariah:--

Jehovah, who stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him (Zechariah 12:1),

meaning the church. Also, as before, in Genesis:--

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1).

And the heavens and the earth were finished (Genesis 2:1)

These are the nativities of the heavens and of the earth (Genesis 2:4),

everywhere denoting the church created, formed, and made. In Joel:--

The earth quaked before Him, the heavens trembled, the sun and the moon were darkened (Joel 2:10),

meaning the church and the things of the church; when these are vastated, heaven and earth are said to quake, and the sun and moon to grow dark, that is, love and faith.

[3] In Jeremiah:--

I beheld the earth, and lo a void and emptiness and the heavens, and they had no light (Jeremiah 4:23).

Here the earth plainly denotes the man in whom there is not anything of the church. Again:--

The whole earth shall be desolate yet will I not make a full consummation for this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black (Jeremiah 4:27, 28).

Here also the church is meant, whose exteriors are the earth, and the interiors the heavens, of which it is said that they shall be black, with no light in them, when there is no longer wisdom of good and intelligence of truth. Then the earth also is empty and void; and in like manner the man of the church who should be a church. That by the whole earth is meant in other places also only the church, may be seen in Daniel:--

The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces (Daniel 7:23);

the whole earth denotes the church and what is of the church; for the Word does not treat, like profane writings, of monarchial sovereignties, but of the holy things and states of the church, which are here signified by the kingdoms of the earth.

[4] In Jeremiah:--

A great tempest shall be raised up from the uttermost parts of the earth; and the slain of Jehovah shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth (Jeremiah 25:32, 33);

here from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth, means the church and everything that is of the church. In Isaiah:--

The whole earth is at rest and is quiet; they break forth into singing (Isaiah 14:7),

where the whole earth denotes the church. In Ezekiel:--

When the whole earth rejoiceth (Ezekiel 35:14),

where also the whole earth denotes the church. In Isaiah:--

I have sworn that the water of Noah should no more go over the earth (Isaiah 54:9),

where the earth denotes the church, because the church is there treated of.

[5] Because land or earth in the Word signifies the church, it signifies also what is not the church, for every such word has contrary or opposite meanings; as for example the various lands of the Gentiles; in general all lands outside the land of Canaan. Land is therefore taken also for the people and for the man outside the church, and hence for the external man, for his will, his Own, and so forth. The term is rarely used in the Word for the whole world, except when the whole human race is meant as regards their state, whether of the church or not of the church. And because the earth is the containment of the ground, which also signifies the church, and the ground is the containment of the field, the word earth signifies, because it involves, many things; and what it signifies is evident from the subject treated of, which is that of which the term is predicated. From all this it is evident that by the whole earth that was overspread by the sons of Noah, is not signified the whole world, or the whole human race, but all the doctrines both true and false that were of the churches.

from AC 1066

Author:  E. Swedenborg (1688-1772).

Source: http://www.biblemeanings.info/Words/Geographical/Earth.htm

Nearly everyone at this website confuses the word earth ('erets) with the planet Earth.  Maybe the this is the anti-science bias on this forum.

Quote

Earth

'erets in Hebrew; gee in Greek, designating either the whole globe, or land as opposed to sea, or a particular land; to be distinguished by the context. A distinct term expresses the material of which the earth consists damaah, the "ground," "soil," from whence Adam was named (Genesis 2:7), his body coming from and returning to the earth (Genesis 3:19), a different word "dust" (Job 10:9; Ecclesiastes 12:7). Naaman desired to have two mules' burden of earth of the Holy Land ('Eretz Israel), whether for an altar or other sacred purpose (Exodus 20:24), a half-paganish nation that God would accept devotions in connection with that soil rather than with any other.

In James 5:17 it is translated: "it rained not on the land (of Israel)"; for the drought was a judgment, not on the whole earth, but on Israel; compare Luke 4:25. So in Luke 23:44 "there was darkness over all the land," not "all the earth"; compare Matthew 27:45. In 1 Corinthians 15:47-49, "the first man is of the earth, earthy," contrasted with "the Lord from heaven" and "the heavenly," the term is choikos, not merely earthly, i.e. born upon earth, but "earthy," literally, "of heaped clay," answering to the surface "dust" in the Old Testament of which man is made; not merely terrestrial, but terrene, therefore, transitory.

Bibliography Information
Fausset, Andrew Robert M.A., D.D., "Definition for 'Earth' Fausset's Bible Dictionary".
bible-history.com - Fausset's; 1878.

Copyright Information
© Fausset's Bible Dictionary

 

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3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

Okay, firstly I am sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean it. 

Thank you Zoltan777, I appreciate you mentioning this.

Peace to you in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 

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For those claiming the book of Enoch does not present a flat earth, why are  scholars of the book of Enoch who quote the book of Enoch with referrals to a flat earth?

You can even google the heading for a video with the following title:

Flat Earth | The Book Of Enoch (Full Videobook)

where the narrator is reading from the book and keep presenting a flat earth.

 

So, it looks like some people see what they want to see when they read stuff.

I know many people who read the bible don't see the Holy Trinity of the Father , Son, Holy Spirit , yet it is indicated in so many places in so many ways. At least I can see it.

So,  it is the same for me with the flat earth theory, I know I am not the only one to see it in the bible and the book of 1 Enoch,

 

and accusing people of being backwards and with malevolence.

There are people who have taken the trouble to write and make videos about it.

I don't think these people are out to cause trouble, I think they truly see what they are reading  in the way they see it presented.

And if you read their views, they certainly don't come across as backwards.

I do not think its fair to judge a person to be backwards just because they are questioning something and see something in a certain way and are pointing it out.

 

Peace in Christ Jesus,

no malice intended

          1to3

 

 

 

 

Edited by 1to3
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Zoltan, there are actually 3 books ascribed to Enoch. I think the flat earth is in the 3rd which is considered the least reliable. 1st Enoch aka Ethiopian Enoch is the one the apostles read. I've read Enoch 1 several times and I don't believe it's inspired scripture. Not all ancient writings were inspired by God. However, some have useful and true information in them. What made me keep reading Enoch is the story about the watchers aka as fallen angels. What I've found out is a lot of things happened that God didn't want us to know. Why? One reason is because those things lead some people into sin. Most people don't need help finding reasons to sin. There's a lot of things we'll never know for certain. Enoch talks about many of them. I agree with leaving Enoch out of the Bible but I agree bc most people are weak willed and they can't deal with uncertainties. 

But Enoch answers some questions and raises others. Such as who built the pyramids and other structures scattered around the world that man couldn't build even today. Since you read Enoch make sure you keep reading the Bible. The Bible tells us how to be saved. The other ancient writings don't do that. Some of us have curious minds and we want to know. Some of us don't. I'm in the first group but not all believers are.

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The bible calls the earth a circle.  I forget where but I read it. If we look at photos of other planets they are round. The bible is inspired but we don't have the original copies. All of the manuscripts we have are reliable.  Now we don't need the bible itself to be saved. Just the gospel. I am not worried if there are mistakes in the scriptures.  There might be but I know what the Apostles wrote about Christ is true.

 

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2 hours ago, JTC said:

Zoltan, there are actually 3 books ascribed to Enoch. I think the flat earth is in the 3rd which is considered the least reliable. 1st Enoch aka Ethiopian Enoch is the one the apostles read.

Hello JTC;

The article I was referring to on page 2 of this post was taken from 1 Enoch

On 8/12/2017 at 8:50 PM, 1to3 said:

1 Enoch 72:
1. The book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven, the relations of each, according to their classes, their dominion and their seasons, according to their names and places of origin, and according to their months, which Uriel, the holy angel, who was with me, who is their guide, showed me; and he showed me all their laws exactly as they are, and how it is with regard to all the years of the world and unto eternity, till the new creation is accomplished which dureth till eternity. 2. And this is the first law of the luminaries: the luminary the Sun has its rising in the eastern portals of the heaven, and its setting in the western portals of the heaven. 3. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals. 4. And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. 5. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. 'that') portal and shines in the face of the heaven. 6. In this way he rises in the first month in the great portal, which is the fourth those six portals in the cast. 7. And in that fourth portal from which the sun rises in the first month are twelve window-openings, from which proceed a flame when they are opened in their season. 8. When the sun rises in the heaven, he comes forth through that fourth portal thirty mornings in succession, and sets accurately in the fourth portal in the west of the heaven. 9. And during this period the day becomes daily longer and the night nightly shorter to the thirtieth morning. 10. On that day the day is longer than the night by a ninth part, and the day amounts exactly to ten parts and the night to eight parts. 11. And the sun rises from that fourth portal, and sets in the fourth and returns to the fifth portal of the east thirty mornings, and rises from it and sets in the fifth portal.

 

 

Full article:

http://testingtheglobe.com/enoch.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 1to3
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7 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Hello JTC;

The article I was referring to on page 2 of this post was taken from 1 Enoch

Thank you but I know that. I just lost a long post I was writing about this. I guess my PC is old and can't handle it when I'm writing a post and someone else is quoting what I already wrote. That's a shame because it was important.

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1 hour ago, JTC said:

Thank you but I know that. I just lost a long post I was writing about this. I guess my PC is old and can't handle it when I'm writing a post and someone else is quoting what I already wrote. That's a shame because it was important.

Man, don't I know what you mean. My problem is not the PC being old, just the typist/composer. And while I'm typing, the little #@#**#* pop up reminder is informing me to hurry up, as there's already twelve more post's since I started typing...........:(

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