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Zoltan777

As it was in the day of Noah

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On 8/16/2017 at 2:18 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

There was not and will not be the commingling of humans and angels .... this is a ruse and not possible

For example, Abaddon/Apollyon will control the little horn of Daniels visions at the time of the end, but there will not be a "commingling"

You need to understand this truth for the correct interpretation

The book of Enoch is not to be even considered as a part of the scriptures 

How is it not possible?  Many think it is good 'ol fashioned rolling in the hay sort of thing. It could be very much more nefarious.  Cross species DNA manipulation is now possible.  Transhumanism is a reality.  It is hardly a stretch to think that mingling of one DNA with another is not reality.  It is pretty arrogant on human's part to impose limitations on what angels bent on mischief are capable of doing.  One good angel, alone, slaughtered 185,000 Assyrian army soldiers in one night without breaking a sweat.  I am quite sure that a psychotic super cherub (Satan) has a lot more tricks up his sleeve than we have any idea of. Putting technology constraints on these creature is very myopic.

While Enoch is not part of the cannon, it is quoted by Jude.  So I guess we had better throw out the Book Of Jude also.  Just like Peter quotes outside sources on the same topic.  Tartarus, which is a place far below hell as the earth is below heaven is mentioned only one time in scripture, in 2 Peter 2:4.  If not for secular Greek writings, we would have no way to know what it means.

You do know, correct, that Apolloyon is the Greek deity Apollo?   And in Daniel regarding the last days....

Daniel 2:43 (NKJV) As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay

For something to mingle with the seed of men to make any sense, it has to be something other than the seed of Men that is being mingled.

So still a ruse and not possible?  

Edited by OldCoot

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On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 3:09 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

 

Quoting the book of Enoch, again, means that something there was considered trustworthy, and that does not mean that it is inspired scripture.

It doesn't have to be inspired to be true....      the book of 1Enoch was widely read in the days of Jesus and themes from it are used throughout the New Testament.   I have found "The Unseen Realm" to be very informative concerning this and many other contextual things that were believed during the time of Jesus that opens some things in the New Testament that is not readily available to those who are not aware of the cosmology of the time period.

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On 8/15/2017 at 3:14 PM, Zoltan777 said:

Jesus compered the end time with the age of Noah and age of Sodom. Both have one major problem in common which is sexual uncleanness. 

Especially, interesting age of Noah where humans mingled with angels. I was playing with the thoughts about that and considering rev 12 and the coming prophetic sing on 23 September a verse has come up in my mind:  "Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth."

Do you think it would be possible to happen again what happened in the age of Noah? I think it does.

Shalom, Zoltan777.

Sorry, but you've started from a faulty assumption. First of all, it is NEVER said in Genesis that "humans mingled with angels." The "sons of God," audaciously named, were the sons of Shet (Seth) who were allowed to live in the light of the sun, and the mere "men" were the sons of Qayin (Cain) who had to live underground with their families, having descended from Qayin and having lived in Chanowkh (Enoch), the first city, a city built out of the rocks in the caverns and caves of Nowd (Nod). When their descendants began to emerge, shown by the fact that Lemekh's (Lamech's) children were nomadic, following cattle and living in tents, artificers in brass and iron, metals discovered in the caverns, and the designing of musical instruments, their daughters were TAKEN CAPTIVE by their captors, these "sons of God," falsely so named. The "n'faliym," translated "giants" in the KJV, was not a race of created beings; they were an OCCUPATION! They were "wood cutters" or "lumberjacks!" Probably bigger than other men and stronger by swinging axes and hauling lumber, they were PROBABLY natural "giants." In any case, they were TYRANTS, taking what they wanted and WHOM they wanted! It was an early form of slavery. It's really as simple as that. Taking the daughters of men as sex slaves IS a sexual perversion, a "sexual uncleanness," but it was NOT as you portrayed it.

The whole point of it being like the days of Noach was that, just as in Noach's time, life was going on as normal. There was no warning (other than Noach's heralding of the Wrath to come and the animals coming to the ark that Noach was building in which to survive) that the Flood would occur! They were marrying wives and giving their daughters in marriage to others just as they normally would have been doing. They were eating and drinking just as they normally would have been doing. All of a sudden, the rain POURED out of the sky as though buckets of water were being dumped upon them, taking them all by surprise! It took the wooly mammoths COMPLETELY by surprise, knocking them to their haunches and flash-freezing them in blocks of ice with fresh buttercups still in their mouths!

I've checked out all of the occurrences, and I'm going to make a bold statement: The Bible NEVER uses the term "sons of God" for "angels!"

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2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Zoltan777.

Sorry, but you've started from a faulty assumption. First of all, it is NEVER said in Genesis that "humans mingled with angels." The "sons of God," audaciously named, were the sons of Shet (Seth) who were allowed to live in the light of the sun, and the mere "men" were the sons of Qayin (Cain) who had to live underground with their families, having descended from Qayin and having lived in Chanowkh (Enoch), the first city, a city built out of the rocks in the caverns and caves of Nowd (Nod). When their descendants began to emerge, shown by the fact that Lemekh's (Lamech's) children were nomadic, following cattle and living in tents, artificers in brass and iron, metals discovered in the caverns, and the designing of musical instruments, their daughters were TAKEN CAPTIVE by their captors, these "sons of God," falsely so named. The "n'faliym," translated "giants" in the KJV, was not a race of created beings; they were an OCCUPATION! They were "wood cutters" or "lumberjacks!" Probably bigger than other men and stronger by swinging axes and hauling lumber, they were PROBABLY natural "giants." In any case, they were TYRANTS, taking what they wanted and WHOM they wanted! It was an early form of slavery. It's really as simple as that. Taking the daughters of men as sex slaves IS a sexual perversion, a "sexual uncleanness," but it was NOT as you portrayed it.

The whole point of it being like the days of Noach was that, just as in Noach's time, life was going on as normal. There was no warning (other than Noach's heralding of the Wrath to come and the animals coming to the ark that Noach was building in which to survive) that the Flood would occur! They were marrying wives and giving their daughters in marriage to others just as they normally would have been doing. They were eating and drinking just as they normally would have been doing. All of a sudden, the rain POURED out of the sky as though buckets of water were being dumped upon them, taking them all by surprise! It took the wooly mammoths COMPLETELY by surprise, knocking them to their haunches and flash-freezing them in blocks of ice with fresh buttercups still in their mouths!

I've checked out all of the occurrences, and I'm going to make a bold statement: The Bible NEVER uses the term "sons of God" for "angels!"

Quote

 

Job 38:2-7

2 "Who is this that darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 "Now gird up your loins like a man,
And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!
4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
5 Who set its measurements, since you know?
Or who stretched the line on it?
6 "On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
NASB

 

please don't tell me that the sons of Seth were here shouting for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth.

Quote

Job 1:6

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
KJV

Job 2:1

2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
KJV

So the sons of Seth came and presented themselves before the Lord.....   and Satan was among them....    hard to comprehend.\

 

Actually humans are not called sons of God until we are born again spiritually....   it is only then that we are the sons of God.

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10 minutes ago, other one said:

please don't tell me that the sons of Seth were here shouting for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth.

Shalom, other one.

Nope. You've got the wrong idea. See, Job 38 is not talking about the Creation of the FIRST heaven and earth, but of the SECOND! (See 2 Peter 3:3-13.) God is talking to Iyov about the RE-forming of the earth AFTER THE FLOOD! There are contextual clues that give us this information:

Job 38:6-11
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, (continental shelves)
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
KJV

No, these "sons of God" were those who lived through the Flood!

10 minutes ago, other one said:

So the sons of Seth came and presented themselves before the Lord.....   and Satan was among them....    hard to comprehend.

EVERY human being after the Flood is a "son of Shet (Seth)." And, it's not so hard to comprehend when you realize where humans go to present themselves before the LORD; they go to the ALTAR! The phrase "present themselves" is used elsewhere in the Bible:

Deuteronomy 31:14
14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.
KJV

Joshua 23:16
24 And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God.
KJV

Judges 20:1-2
1 Then all the children of Israel went out, and the congregation was gathered together as one man, from Dan even to Beer-sheba, with the land of Gilead, unto the Lord in Mizpeh.
2 And the chief of all the people, even of all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand footmen that drew sword.
KJV

Where else would haSatan expect God to show up?

Isn't it amazing that the Hebrew word for "angel," "mal'aakh," occurs three times in the book of Job, and ONLY ONE of them is referring to angels?

Job 1:14-15
14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
KJV

Job 4:17-19
17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
KJV

Job 33:22-24
22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.
23 If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness:
24 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.
KJV

Like the Greek word "aggelos," this Hebrew word means "a messenger!"

So, why should it come as some surprise that "sons of God" are referring to human beings instead of angels?

10 minutes ago, other one said:

Actually humans are not called sons of God until we are born again spiritually....   it is only then that we are the sons of God.

That's not exactly true. You've got a New Testament perspective and have NOT investigated the supposed truth of what you're saying.

Genesis 4:26
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
KJV

2 Samuel 7:8-16
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
KJV

Isaiah 43:1-11
1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
KJV

Sorry, think again.

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3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Zoltan777.

Sorry, but you've started from a faulty assumption. First of all, it is NEVER said in Genesis that "humans mingled with angels." The "sons of God," audaciously named, were the sons of Shet (Seth) who were allowed to live in the light of the sun, and the mere "men" were the sons of Qayin (Cain) who had to live underground with their families, having descended from Qayin and having lived in Chanowkh (Enoch), the first city, a city built out of the rocks in the caverns and caves of Nowd (Nod). When their descendants began to emerge, shown by the fact that Lemekh's (Lamech's) children were nomadic, following cattle and living in tents, artificers in brass and iron, metals discovered in the caverns, and the designing of musical instruments, their daughters were TAKEN CAPTIVE by their captors, these "sons of God," falsely so named. The "n'faliym," translated "giants" in the KJV, was not a race of created beings; they were an OCCUPATION! They were "wood cutters" or "lumberjacks!" Probably bigger than other men and stronger by swinging axes and hauling lumber, they were PROBABLY natural "giants." In any case, they were TYRANTS, taking what they wanted and WHOM they wanted! It was an early form of slavery. It's really as simple as that. Taking the daughters of men as sex slaves IS a sexual perversion, a "sexual uncleanness," but it was NOT as you portrayed it.

The whole point of it being like the days of Noach was that, just as in Noach's time, life was going on as normal. There was no warning (other than Noach's heralding of the Wrath to come and the animals coming to the ark that Noach was building in which to survive) that the Flood would occur! They were marrying wives and giving their daughters in marriage to others just as they normally would have been doing. They were eating and drinking just as they normally would have been doing. All of a sudden, the rain POURED out of the sky as though buckets of water were being dumped upon them, taking them all by surprise! It took the wooly mammoths COMPLETELY by surprise, knocking them to their haunches and flash-freezing them in blocks of ice with fresh buttercups still in their mouths!

I've checked out all of the occurrences, and I'm going to make a bold statement: The Bible NEVER uses the term "sons of God" for "angels!"

Read book of Enoch and think again.

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3 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

Read book of Enoch and think again.

Shalom, Zoltan777.

The Book of Enoch is a MYTH and is not canonical. Read the SCRIPTURES and think again.

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19 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Zoltan777.

The Book of Enoch is a MYTH and is not canonical. Read the SCRIPTURES and think again.

So in the Bible apostle Jude and Peter used a myth book as a reference?

Jude named the author of this "myth" book and quoted from it.

“And to these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, ‘Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have wrought, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him’” Jude 14-15.

 

Apostle Peter used the story of this "myth" book as a reference: 

"For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved for judgement;  but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly;" 2. Peter 2.4-5.

So if you are saying the book of Enoch was not written by Enoch and story is not true it means you think apostle Jude and Peter are incorrect. Think again.

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3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Zoltan777.

The Book of Enoch is a MYTH and is not canonical. Read the SCRIPTURES and think again.

1 Enoch was a good part of the general cosmology of knowledge during the time Jesus was here.  I agree it isn't Canon, but thatdoesnt mean that it's not true.

If you don't understand the general knowledge of the time, it's almost impossible to understand the context of much of the bible....

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