Refugees at Church

[Neighbor]

Received a good lesson this morning with emphasis on; the word of God cannot be imprisoned. Meaning that  the involuntary  imprisonment the confining of saints cannot contain the word of God. In fact containment of saints in Christ Jesus  aids the spreading of  the gospel. Paul's imprisonment being an example. Plus the exploding growth of the church at Iran after the expulsion of Christians with the fall of the Shah back in 1972. Same with China. The very act of gathering up the last few known Christians and moving them about th ecounty to be alone in cities unknown to the individual saints had the effect of spreading the gospel.

That lesson was coupled with the lessons from the Bible that we are not to expect nor ask for sympathy for our personal plights. Instead we are to suck it up and get to work as "soldiers" of Christ, go about spreading the love and the word  of the gospel.

Seems that immigrants may have higher  percentages of Christians in their population than native populations, and  will end up  being a catalyst  for growth of the number of saints in the general native population. That seems to be a marvelous work of God over the people of the lands receiving  immigrants of faith in Christ Jesus. That lesson was followed by a sermon on love and that it is to be given rather than demanded  to be received.

so it seems to me that whether the general native population realizes it or not, God will use  immigrants to a land to spread the gospel to the native born population, especially  people that have gone cold in their faith. And what an outstanding blessing from God

If we have God and the Holy Spirit does  indwell us, what fear can we have? 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Neighbor
added the word "to" for clarification within a sentence

[Wayne222]

Any of them going to church is a good thing. My take on Muslim refugees is they are anti christian. So these must not be of that mind. God can draw many to Christ. And souls will be saved for his kingdom.  

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

It is naive and not historical. It is Not a matter of fear but historic awareness. Tell it  to all parts of the Middle East that had majority Christian populations, whose women and daughters were raped. Islam took over made those who would not convert pay a tax and be second class citizens who were enslaved, and many of those Christians were murdered and MANY renounced their faith and did eventually convert to islam. All and all an ugly tale of Christian genocide that has been even  worse in the 20th century then all centuries combined. 

just wait..........the twenty first century via interfaith will surpass those numbers .   so many killed and all in the name of false love , false peace, false unity

IT sure is not like I am telling you something you don't know already.  Believe me, the wonderful letters in the bible and the fate our brethren have had to suffer through all ages

will soon hit the upmost climax the world will ever see has ever seen or ever will see again.    And so sad it is that many who used JESUS name will be among those

who slay Christs true brethren.   It is such a madhouse and the climax will be such a blood bath against the true saints.

I don't fear what is coming.....its just so sad for those whose end , those who followed this all inclusive mindset .  that end will be perdtion in a lake of fire. ME, I have Christ so its life with Him forever.  amen.

[Neighbor]

Hi all,

To be naive is to be inexperienced. While I may hold a minority view and may be wrong headed in the eye's of some or even many individuals it is not one of naivete. I do have some small experience in encounters with individuals and groups of individuals from cultures, lands and languages all quite foreign to me.

Plus;  our local body of Christ has it's own members that voluntarily would meet with the Iman's of our neighboring city once a month for food and discussion of the Bible and of course present the gospel of our Lord God and personal savior Jesus. No one was ever won over in the "discussions". The Iman's finally broke off these discussion sessions, not wanting to hear of Christ and the gospel of Jesus any longer, and with the atmosphere of  overall hostility and even sense of danger within the general "Secular" population, intermingling is I suppose getting ever more difficult.

As to Africa, may I show what is happening there, or at least our little take on what may be done in the sharing of the good news of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, that each individual may hear  how they may have eternal life? A home grown missionary  from our little and humble working class members church goes into  Benin and Nigeria. See: soshope.org/ministries for a few pictures. Several here make short missions trips there to assist this missionary  endeavor, including our youth, to help bring clean water and the water of life to many suffering people.

Many of our own "native born" American families of our local body of Christ are also much involved in adopting children from nations at Africa. It is a difficult and expensive process for which several share  in, and also learn about the process- of the ups, downs, ins, outs, and disappointments, as well as victorious highs, praying plus supporting the cause with finances.

Plus the work at Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, is also very difficult for our rather fortunate and privileged native to American people to undertake. Is it dangerous? Sure it is,  the leader of the ministry has been nearly beaten to death for  his work. There is need for much prayer much studying and reading of the Bible, and thinking through how to act in service  to our mutual Lord and savior Jesus.

But at the end of it there is also the command of Jesus to go into all the world with the message of salvation. Our Lord  our God never promised us easy, not at all. He never promised us nor encouraged us to stay to ourselves. He does state that we are not of the world, but instead in it.

 I could go on, but will spare you all, hoping the point is made that most of us have some knowledge through our own church, our local body of Christ, about the needs of the world's lost peoples and the needs of Christians around the world. It is hardly any different from the time of Paul  where he was raising money from all the churches to help the persecuted population of the church at Jerusalem. No one, none, can claim as excuse that they  are naive, there has perhaps never been a less naive population on earth in all of history. There is no excuse, our decisions are ours to own.

BUT here is the "Kicker" for us. The refugees are coming to us! We are not going to them. They are here! Now what? They are our neighbor, and as such our responsibility. And it is a burden for secular society. But can we as servants of our Lord Jesus, say it is too much, that we cannot take the risk, we cannot bear the cost out of our personal pockets and what of our women and children?

We do need to have a plan of action, a model to follow, we cannot just say this one is a Christian and that one is not, and  of yet another; one I fear he may even be a terrorist, and think hey can't we just keep them all out of here?  The answer is no we cannot! Even if we wanted to  it is too late, God has presented these people to us. What will we do?

Seems to me we have to look anew at what we are as servants of our Lord Jesus. We first need pray that we overcome fear, for fear paralyzes and grows prejudice and hatreds.  Christians are not of hatreds, we are to emulate our Lord for His glory, not ours. And truly, what do we have to fear if we have Jesus?  Nothing!

Jesus has not told us to park our brains at the curb  and come into him. No he has said; I knock, open the door and I will come in - To me that is right where we stand, no preconditions. Yet, there are very direct guidances for us from our Lord and savior, are there not? In general we are allowed and even encouraged to be harder on ourselves and correcting of each other, yet very generous and open to the unsaved, those not yet  of the fold of Christ.

So how do we measure accurately? I don't think we can do much more than accept the experience of each that says they have been saved,  and welcome them, and then hold them to the precepts and responsibilities of being  in the fold of Jesus. We will then see the fruit of their  salvation, or we will not, and then we know there is work to be done praying, thinking, reading the Bible, and sharing of Jesus.

 I do state that  our Lord gives us challanges, serious ones, and that  we may have a great struggle before us, a trial  of immense difficulty. We were never promised an easy time here in the flesh. In fact just the opposite; by demonstration in Paul with the harshness of his life, and by the word of the Bible within the lament of Jeremiah we are told otherwise. The LORD has asked of us, through his asking of Jeremiah how will we do, if we cannot run with the footmen, when the faster and harder challanges come upon us.

 Life will never be the easy street prosperity for all that we may dream over. No. for the poor, the downtrodden, even the killer an enemy,  will always be with us. And we must rely on the wisdom of the Lord if we are to be the good servants we desire to be.

 I suggest that no matter how difficult it is, we must find way to welcome sojourners, travelers, strangers, and  foreigners, among us. - Even as we protect ourselves and our own wife's and children. Christians do not have the privilege of shuting out great parts of the world for our personal sense of retreat and comfort. It is not what we are about.

We are to be about sharing  physically, as well as by word, the love from God who gave His own Son that we may have life eternal in Him. Without acts our faith is dead within us.  We take the risk of faithing, yes faithing, the action of faith in us that is the doing of what the Holy Spirit will led us in doing.  For what we do is merely testimony from witnesses of that which is the Holy Spirit that has indwelled us.

God is with us, how can we fear to a panic, must we not pray and reason our course from the guidelines of our Bible? I think that is our only course. We should then be bold in our faith and fear not to share of it. It is our very mission of life in this fesh indwelled by the Holy Spirit of God. We must proclaim Jesus is Lord,- and we must live it! We do not have to be a stupid  nor naive people to do that.

We cannot expect to have an easy race to run-  we have to do what the secular world shouts out but doesn't really do; suck it up and get to working,  or as America's independent minded and determined individuals say, "Get'r done".Lets get to getting'r-done as saints in Christ Jesus doing our commanded mission in service to our Lord.

Do not lament, do not give in to being tired, get'r done. Pray, think, read the Bible, and band together in the cause of Christ, sharing the good news of salvation that comes through Jesus alone. Share with the entirety of the world that you and I may actually reach, whether we reach outward, or whether the world reaches in to us where we are.

The Lord Answers Jeremiah

“If you have raced with men on foot, and they have wearied you,
    how will you compete with horses?
And if in a safe land you are so trusting,
    what will you do in the thicket of the Jordan?"

 

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Neighbor
correcting spelling , and punctuation - I have retinitis which makes the process a bit slow. Sorry if you read an uncorrected version of my conversation.

[Neighbor]

Since I am on a roll, please indulge these thoughts on how we make decisions on who is a brother or sister in Christ or not, and thus is eligible for church membership, - should they desire to be members. 

 We find must be careful who we allow to be voting members of our local church. If we don't we will find we could be soon overrun and controlled by Scientologists. For we are the world capital for that group of  individuals that do not know Christ as savior.

 I use Dianetics or Scientology for the example, but it pertains to all the unsaved world! We do invite them all to church. We do share of Jesus, but we cannot have them voting and directing us in our church matters.

So: To be a member, a voting member,  is a privilege extended through a process. Each person desiring membership must fill out an application, with personal identification, address, etc., and must testify in writing as to their undertanding of the Gospel of Jesus and especially of their own very personal experience of hearing the specific call from the Holy Spirit to turn about from their sin against God. Plus their personal experience of having accepted the comfort of the Holy Spirit and of their own  repentance from sin against God - their conversion experience, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit occuring within them.

They must also  learn through a series of four classes ( just four hours ) what this local chuch is about, how we work, how we solve problems within our group,-  which is mostly through the procedures in Matthew 18

Then all the elders read  of the testimonies confer, pray, ask  questions if need be. They also teach in those four hours of classes for  prospective new church body members. As side note; we are a middling sized church  and have between 20 and 50 new members  at our membership classes  given twice a year.  We are  somewhat of a transient community, so members come and they go off elsewhere in the world too.

 To be a member each person must have been baptized in water ( Baptism by Immersion). We have pre-baptism classes concurrant with the membership classes and then have baptism for those that still have need of baptism testimony and desire membership. We have managed to  do that process even with the issues of language with many  that do not speak our native English.  It is harder of course, but it is do-able.

Every born again saint knows his conversion and remembers the call from the Holy Spirit into the fold of Christ Jesus. If they don't there may be reason to ask; why not? Perhaps the person thinks they are saved, or does not yet know, in which case they may still need to actually hear the gospel of Jesus and ask  of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to them. Their testimony  can be assessed by other born again saints in Jesus.  We chose to have our very best trained, our elders, take upon themselves that responsibility. 

The candidates for memberhip are put before the congregation, BUT not so much for approval, as the entire body is not aware of the individual testimonies, nor details of the experiences of the classes. They are put before  the body for prayer, and for welcoming and fellowship! Then they are encouraged to seek growth in their spiritual life. If they are of Christ there will be a joining with other Christians in study prayer common work for the poor, love for one another, etc.  There will be growth in them in their understanding and desire for the things of the gospel of Christ Jesus.

They too will also be led by the Holy Spirit of God to the sharing of their faith, in action and in word. That leaves a responsibility for the church, that of providing good encouragement, guidance, and support for personal spiritual growth and support for the missionary endeavors to grow within the new members, the refugees, in the case of what is happening now within communities and churches.

Is this the only way any church should operate? I don't know, it works pretty well for us. Our leaders and our members find it Biblcal and with prayer also it is protective of the whole group. It doesn't prevent our inviting many to come and share with us as we gather, nor does it keep us so separated that we do not go into all the world.

May God guide each of us, that we may  glorify Him.

p.s. My apology to all for hogging the thread, but I got on a roll  on a subject dear to my own heart. I will love to learn from others their insights, experiences, and sense of Biblical guidance!

I do so want to learn  of your thoughts, see your knowledge hear of your experiences, and testimonies. So please share.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Neighbor
spelling

[thomas t]

Hi all,

 

the church I go to couldn't keep the refugees I was talking about, they all left. They found a mainline Protestant church who was able to welcome them.

However, protestant churches in Germany normally don't even preach repentance because they don't have an idea what salvation is about - this is at least my impression from what I hear from those who study Protestant theology.

But they were able to manage the welcoming for the refugees.

Nevertheless, God let it mercifully happen that a new group of refugees came to the church I attend, and this time they stayed.

 

Today, one of them sang a song in his native tongue and I had the honour of accompanying it along with two other friends. The musician had an interesting style mixing in 10% elements from his home country.

 

I never said Germany should let more refugees in. But now that they are in, the churches profit from them spiritually, in my view. Their faith is great.

 

Best regards,

Thomas

[Debp]

Thanks Thomas, for this interesting topic!   I think it's wonderful that your church is welcoming refugees.   Please keep us updated.

I read many Muslim refugees are coming to Christ because in the refugee camps the native missionaries have visited them and they have responded to the love of Christ.   Many lost their homes due to Isis and so are questioning their Muslim faith... something unheard of before.