Must it be hard to be an atheist? No.

[Neighbor]

I start a separate thread on being an atheist, as the subject comes up on other threads usually with the comment  and conclusion that it must be hard to be an atheist. In general it is said, because there is no hope in the atheist.

May I suggest that is  wrong. It may seem correct from the vantage point of a Christian, someone that knows the mercy and grace of God; but I share that the atheist does not suffer from that which a Christian suffers. The atheist has no despair or fear of eternity to come, only joy in the moment, and plans for the future till death ends it all, finis.

Atheism is clear clean simple. No despair to speak of, certainly no eternal concerns to touble the mind, just a grand  personal morality worked out with a doing of good against the doing of evil, but in only fleshly terms for there is no spirit at all known to the atheist.

 And so the talk by  Christians and their concern about the despair of being an atheist rings ridiculous to an atheist. It is indeed so much folly.

As an atheist I could do so much more to help many people than I can today as a born again saint in Christ Jesus. For today I know of the joy of being a bond-servant of Jesus, and I know the fate of those that are not yet so blessed in that awareness. Because of that I get emotional in my concern like I never did as an atheist. I could help without the burden of the knowledge of eternity to come. Now I must share of eternity that all face with or without the saving Grace of Jesus. That is an emotional thing, very emotional. It is hard to be stoic and matter of fact when the Spirit moves one. It is hard to give away all pride and be humble to great and deep humility  in tasks. It is rewarding, but it is harder than being an atheist. Christianity is harder than atheism.

 The idea that ignorance is bliss, and that what you don't know can't hurt you, has great weight. It is true, but it is also not an out from what will indeed affect each person individually. As atheism will kill eternally  the soul and spirit perishing an everlasting sad fate, known only to God and the saints in Jesus, the flock saved by Grace alone.

So what is the hope I cherish? It is that the Holy Spirit may make that  specific call to repentance and that many will be turned about to salvation and eternal life with God. I am to share of this. It is my duty and privilege to do so. But in humility I need accept that I do not save anyone. I  simply testify to that which does. And it pleases our creator when any  do so. The result of  testimony  is not of me or any saint in Christ jesus, each are simply witnesses.

 The atheist will be turned to God, as God wills, when God,  wills if God wills. Perhaps until that time for each, it is best the atheist is an atheist, for to know God and not know of salvation secured would be the far greater terror, and terror known to the person that does know of a God but does not acknowledge Jesus. None the less,  testimony is given for it pleases God. I pray, for God hears prayer. May many be brought to salvation and eternal life knowing the gospel  that is salvation and redemption from the price of sin. May the Holy Spirit make  that specific call and many be saved.

 

p.s A note that I write in terms of I this and I that because I have an aversion to presuming that  what I do think, is of all Christians. I may believe it is, but then I should not advance my conclusions as  a "we think" proposition. To do that  a lot of "I" gets inserted where I would prefer not to do so, instead thinking "we", but that is bit presumptuous. It irritates me a bit when a Christian states we think this and we think that. A bit of a pet peeve that I must own.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Neighbor

[Guest]

I too think that it would be easy. No GOD, no conscious (once seared), no condemnation, no need to feel like you need to do the "right" thing. You can do what you, when you want and damn the consequences (if there are any.) Crime pays. The guilty go free if you have enough money or know the right people. The poor are used and abused without any thought of doing harm. (Sadly, most Christians do the same things - some forgiven but most condemned as frauds.) Racism on the right and on the left abounds. Slavery and sexual deviancy abound, mostly without recourse for the enslaved. So, ya, it's easy to be an atheist - until you are on your death bed and are scared to death about it there is an afterlife or not. 

Neighbor's piece is a well written piece, but I feel the need to make one correction. It is not "if" GOD wills, for scripture tells us that GOD wills that "everyone" is saved, knowing that not everyone will accept HIS Solution to the sin problem.

[missmuffet]

That is right. Do what you want. But at what price? 

[Neighbor]

3 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

I too think that it would be easy. No GOD, no conscious (once seared), no condemnation, no need to feel like you need to do the "right" thing. You can do what you, when you want and damn the consequences (if there are any.) Crime pays. The guilty go free if you have enough money or know the right people. The poor are used and abused without any thought of doing harm. (Sadly, most Christians do the same things - some forgiven but most condemned as frauds.) Racism on the right and on the left abounds. Slavery and sexual deviancy abound, mostly without recourse for the enslaved. So, ya, it's easy to be an atheist - until you are on your death bed and are scared to death about it there is an afterlife or not. 

Neighbor's piece is a well written piece, but I feel the need to make one correction. It is not "if" GOD wills, for scripture tells us that GOD wills that "everyone" is saved, knowing that not everyone will accept HIS Solution to the sin problem.

Hi Rick, I considered elaborating on "if God wills", but chose to leave it a is. I'll leave it at God is sovereign in all matters and all things.  And that Jesus  loses not a one of the flock given Him by  God the Father. Enough said less we wonder far off topic here, and do battle over things better left for each to discover on their own as they mature ever more daily in  the lord Jesus and on the word's meaning as revealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

My personal experience is quite the contrary to what the Christian often states is the case. For I have found most all atheists to be very moral, having a very distinct set of concerns and habits  about what is right and what is wrong. Being an atheist is not license to behave in an unruly manner, anymore than the freedom that is Grace from God is. Every human is depraved from birth, depraved and unrighteous from the get go, greedy and needy.  Behavior is culturally learned, acceptance of a morality  is a learned behavior, once  written in the law of the Romans as well as the Hebrew of Biblical times near the birth time of our Savior.

The self made piety of mankind is perhaps a worse sin in the believer that there is a god or God, than in the nonbeliever. Being an atheist is not license to do anything -anything at all. That is the misconception of the saints in Christ that I write of herein. The atheist knows that is a falsehood, and when the saintly believer proudly proclaims it to be so, the atheist then tunes out any further message coming from that believer, for he has just crippled his message of grace and mercy of  God made man that he may  pay the price of man's sin. The sin of the believer in the gospel of Jesus by inferring that the saint is above that and the atheist is not.

The message from Paul  makes a very different declaration. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,  (All = atheist, theist, and Christian alike). There is no high pulpit from which the Christian may point down on the theist or atheist. For the Christian merits nothing of a standing by his own doing at all. It is all God. All our Lord Jesus, and all of the reveal of Jesus by the Holy Spirit thay anyone is saved from eternal damnation from God.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

24 minutes ago, Yowm said:

My dad, 93 yrs., has been an atheist nearly all his life. He has been suffering at least the last 10 years from death anxiety and has to be medicated to keep half calm.

I grew up under his care and was an agnostic and still had lotsa concerns and fears about the life after until I came to faith in Jesus at 25.

Thank you for sharing.  Is there any possibility he will change?

I often wonder what draws atheists and agnostics to a Christian forums.  What do they hope to gain?  Are they enriching the lives of those they interact with?  Will they suffer from anxiety in their later years?  I wonder why they waste their time.

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

My dad, 93 yrs., has been an atheist nearly all his life. He has been suffering at least the last 10 years from death anxiety and has to be medicated to keep half calm.

I grew up under his care and was an agnostic and still had lotsa concerns and fears about the life after until I came to faith in Jesus at 25.

I do not blame people who are atheists and afraid of death. They are going to have a nightmare of an eternity.

[Neighbor]

13 hours ago, Yowm said:

My dad, 93 yrs., has been an atheist nearly all his life. He has been suffering at least the last 10 years from death anxiety and has to be medicated to keep half calm.

I grew up under his care and was an agnostic and still had lotsa concerns and fears about the life after until I came to faith in Jesus at 25.

Hi Yowm, Sorry for your pain. 

 

 I share that my father died at 78 an atheist never converted to my knowledge. He had been sick with painful cancer and never had any fear. In fact the last thing he was doing was tapping out some old songs he used to  play  many years before as a trombone player. I recognized the rhythms.  To him it was just the end of life, a life he lived as a very  determined moral man that helped many other individuals over great periods of time. He  spend 30 years of effort at huge financial cost to develop titanium mesh surgical products. His determined and greatly talented  fellow inventor surgeon friend and he trained the teams at every major trauma hospital in the USA in use of the titanium mesh for reconstruction of severe trauma patients. They started out by being determined to be able to rebuild the jaws of U S Vietnam war casualties. They espent 30 years at it. He did that as his "hobby" along with his other work. He was extremely honest, was pleased that he had been so fortunate as to be  an American, always paid his full taxes, etc. When he sold a business he made sure 10% of the gain went to all the employees as a thank you. When he sold his titanium surgical products interests he gave all  the gain to others. He also hated, absolutely hated, the pastors on tv, and would all but throw the tv clicker at their image if one came on.

As a child of about eleven I  once told him of creation using the flood and salt water oceans and salt deposits on land as part of my own scientific "evidence". I then was made to spend some considerable period of time dripping fresh water on a pile of salt on an upside down glass over a saucer of fresh water. It was a demonstration  on his part that the salt in salt water came first from dry land and flowed into the ocean where it collected and became concentrated. I then had to do a weather pattern study and drawing showing evaporation patterns, etc.

 The point? Atheists are not necessarily stupid fearful individuals, nor thieves, nor scoundrels without morals! Each atheist is just like each Christian, or even any other person of a differing faith. All are depraved from birth, but not all are thieves and scoundrels.  Why there are thieves among those that know and even worship Christ as Lord. They may not hold up 7-11's for a living, but they steal none the less by not paying full taxes, by cutting corners here and then on obligations, including even their support of their own local body of Christ. And they will always have some good reason in their own mind for why it is okay.

The Christian that  refers to the atheist as "they", and thinks an atheist has no limit upon their behavior, I believe are in a fallacious mindset, one that does not help much when trying to share of our Lord Jesus. One needs have a little respect rather than much disdain. One needs project the wonderful gift that is the mercy of Jesus, not the uppitness of I have something you don't have you miserable thing you, how can you be so stupid?

There simply is no difference between the atheist and the Christian. Except; the mercy of God and the reveal of Jesus by the Holy Spirit to the turning about of each individual that is then to become a saved Christian to their very salvation as each see hear and accept the specific call of the Holy Spirit. It is not of any personal merit whatsoever that anyone is saved. It is of God and God alone. There is no room for pride in that  for the Christian, only wonder at it, such mercy from God, the God that  had been rejected only moments before.

It is the Christian that is to the world stupid. Because of that it is the Christian that needs to be kinder,  so as to be seen as a light that somehow gets illuminated by something desirable whatever it may be. So that there is some curiousity  about the Christian, not so that everyone would rather not be around one for the disdain  projected by one. My own opinion and experience both as an atheist, and now as a born again Christian, is that it is more likely a Christian will project an image of something that is not especially welcoming, than they will project their own awe of God and his mercy and grace. Fewer seem to have the spirit of kindness and of welcoming to all, while more project a disdainful manner about them. Seems a shame to me, for each that has been saved should be on knees often, in humility giving thanks to God, not running around calling atheists names attributing all sort of disdainful characteristics upon them, and describing them as thieves and scoundrels unlike themselves the higher planed beings. The saved person is saved by grace, by God's grace alone. Praise God, and ask for the same unmerited  mercy upon many more.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Neighbor

[SavedOnebyGrace]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi Yowm, Sorry for your pain. 

 

 I share that my father died at 78 an atheist never converted to my knowledge. He had been sick with painful cancer and never had any fear. In fact the last thing he was doing was tapping out some old songs he used to  play  many years before as a trombone player. I recognized the rhythms.  To him it was just the end of life, a life he lived as a very  determined moral man that helped many other individuals over great periods of time. He  spend 30 years of effort at huge financial cost to develop titanium mesh surgical products. His determined and greatly talented  fellow inventor surgeon friend and he trained the teams at every major trauma hospital in the USA in use of the titanium mesh for reconstruction of severe trauma patients. They started out by being determined to be able to rebuild the jaws of U S Vietnam war casualties. They espent 30 years at it. He did that as his "hobby" along with his other work. He was extremely honest, was pleased that he had been so fortunate as to be  an American, always paid his full taxes, etc. When he sold a business he made sure 10% of the gain went to all the employees as a thank you. When he sold his titanium surgical products interests he gave all  the gain to others. He also hated, absolutely hated, the pastors on tv, and would all but throw the tv clicker at their image if one came on.

As a child of about eleven I  once told him of creation using the flood and salt water oceans and salt deposits on land as part of my own scientific "evidence". I then was made to spend some considerable period of time dripping fresh water on a pile of salt on an upside down glass over a saucer of fresh water. It was a demonstration  on his part that the salt in salt water came first from dry land and flowed into the ocean where it collected and became concentrated. I then had to do a weather pattern study and drawing showing evaporation patterns, etc.

 The point? Atheists are not necessarily stupid fearful individuals, nor thieves, nor scoundrels without morals! Each atheist is just like each Christian, or even any other person of a differing faith. All are depraved from birth, but not all are thieves and scoundrels.  Why there are thieves among those that know and even worship Christ as Lord. They may not hold up 7-11's for a living, but they steal none the less by not paying full taxes, by cutting corners here and then on obligations, including even their support of their own local body of Christ. And they will always have some good reason in their own mind for why it is okay.

The Christian that  refers to the atheist as "they", and thinks an atheist has no limit upon their behavior, I believe are in a fallacious mindset, one that does not help much when trying to share of our Lord Jesus. One needs have a little respect rather than much disdain. One needs project the wonderful gift that is the mercy of Jesus, not the uppitness of I have something you don't have you miserable thing you, how can you be so stupid?

There simply is no difference between the atheist and the Christian. Except; the mercy of God and the reveal of Jesus by the Holy Spirit to the turning about of each individual that is then to become a saved Christian to their very salvation as each see hear and accept the specific call of the Holy Spirit. It is not of any personal merit whatsoever that anyone is saved. It is of God and God alone. There is no room for pride in that  for the Christian, only wonder at it, such mercy from God, the God that  had been rejected only moments before.

It is the Christian that is to the world stupid. Because of that it is the Christian that needs to be kinder,  so as to be seen as a light that somehow gets illuminated by something desirable whatever it may be. So that there is some curiousity  about the Christian, not so that everyone would rather not be around one for the disdain  projected by one. My own opinion and experience both as an atheist, and now as a born again Christian, is that it is more likely a Christian will project an image of something that is not especially welcoming, than they will project their own awe of God and his mercy and grace. Fewer seem to have the spirit of kindness and of welcoming to all, while more project a disdainful manner about them. Seems a shame to me, for each that has been saved should be on knees often, in humility giving thanks to God, not running around calling atheists names attributing all sort of disdainful characteristics upon them, and describing them as thieves and scoundrels unlike themselves the higher planed beings. The saved person is saved by grace, by God's grace alone. Praise God, and ask for the same unmerited  mercy upon many more.

My father died a few days short of 90, my mother was in her 90s when she died.  They were lifelong members of the Roman Catholic Church.  They put their faith in the Roman Catholic Church, not in the shed blood of Jesus on their behalf.  If the gate is truly narrow as Jesus says, I find it hard to believe either will make it through.  My mother disowned me because I married a Protestant and became one myself after living as an agnostic for years.  But my sister married an atheist and he was accepted.  So it goes.

[Neighbor]

Indeed saved.one.by.grace. So it goes.

 I just think  that as a born again Christian that was once an atheist that I do remember the good and also the very bad in Christians, some that shared of Christ and His gospel others that just  put me down and excluded me as they were the superiors. I just think it is not good thinking on a Christian's part to presume atheists have no morals.

 I think I have learned, as your name boldly states, I too am saved by grace alone.

Personally as a long time member of a church body in which so many of it's attendees and members are prone to ask  is she. he saved?  as He/she saved? I find the question  offensive in the way it is asked. For it seems to be used more as a rating system of some kind and not a desire  for prayer information nor to share of the gospel especially. The local body  that my Lord has led me too s greatly appreciated by me. I just think that corporately it is one of our general flaws. I think my Lord is far more generous  in salvation to us all than many of us are to each other in appreciation of each other. There is just far too much  rating of individuals much like the apostles themselves we found guilty of being as they aske dwho is the greatest among us. The answer they got from Jesus I would think was a bit of a comeuppance. Better worry about your own state of salvation, in a sense of who is the greater or higher standing saint. If you are saved at all,  rather than make comparison of it to that of others. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Neighbor

[Reinitin]

My whole family was athiest, i dont think it was easier or better.