Steward George Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,772 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,459 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted August 21, 2017 Well, the polls totally missed the elections, because of the fact that many people would never vocally say they would vote for Trump -- however they looked at the potential of a Clinton presidency and made the best of it. Thus the pollsters can't get a good read on Trump. I believe that's why the polling is way off at this particular time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, George said: Well, the polls totally missed the elections, because of the fact that many people would never vocally say they would vote for Trump -- however they looked at the potential of a Clinton presidency and made the best of it. Thus the pollsters can't get a good read on Trump. I believe that's why the polling is way off at this particular time. The polls were honestly not that far off when you consider that national polls can only take into account the popular vote and not the Electoral College. Even the "swing state" polls were for the most part not off by more than a couple percentage points. I actually think that 60% of people would answer no to if they want the statues gone, but I find it unreasonable to think many of those people are going to be basing their votes in 2018 on statues and monuments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKay Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.93 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2017 15 hours ago, MorningGlory said: So now Columbus was a racist too? I don't want this to sound like I am joining the Right. But I think most historical people way back 1700-1800 or even early 1900's would be consider racist today. For reasons of " they just didn't know any better." I think that we judge people of the past by today's standers. Had I been born in the deep south in the 1800's, I may have very well been a racist as well. Because that would be all I would know. I would have been told that blacks are slaves and not human like the rest of us. I would have seen and experience things I do not see or experience in this time. All of those factors would have shaped who I was. Would I have been a racist? Maybe? Pulling down statues is not going to erase the past. In fact statues can be a teaching tool to teach people that the way of life back then was like that. But we don't want to be that way anymore. We don't want to make the mistakes that these people made. So let these statues remind us to do better and to be better people. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, LadyKay said: I don't want this to sound like I am joining the Right. But I think most historical people way back 1700-1800 or even early 1900's would be consider racist today. For reasons of " they just didn't know any better." I think that we judge people of the past by today's standers. Had I been born in the deep south in the 1800's, I may have very well been a racist as well. Because that would be all I would know. I would have been told that blacks are slaves and not human like the rest of us. I would have seen and experience things I do not see or experience in this time. All of those factors would have shaped who I was. Would I have been a racist? Maybe? Pulling down statues is not going to erase the past. In fact statues can be a teaching tool to teach people that the way of life back then was like that. But we don't want to be that way anymore. We don't want to make the mistakes that these people made. So let these statues remind us to do better and to be better people. Well said LK. The only thing I might question is that can statues designed to honor and celebrate a person be used to teach us to be better than the one that is being celebrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted August 21, 2017 40 minutes ago, LadyKay said: I don't want this to sound like I am joining the Right. But I think most historical people way back 1700-1800 or even early 1900's would be consider racist today. For reasons of " they just didn't know any better." I think that we judge people of the past by today's standers. Had I been born in the deep south in the 1800's, I may have very well been a racist as well. Because that would be all I would know. I would have been told that blacks are slaves and not human like the rest of us. I would have seen and experience things I do not see or experience in this time. All of those factors would have shaped who I was. Would I have been a racist? Maybe? Pulling down statues is not going to erase the past. In fact statues can be a teaching tool to teach people that the way of life back then was like that. But we don't want to be that way anymore. We don't want to make the mistakes that these people made. So let these statues remind us to do better and to be better people. I agree with 'gator - excellent post. And I know you probably meant the part I highlighted to be a lighthearted comment, but I'd like to use it to illustrate that people - all of us - are much more complex than the stupid 'left vs. right' pigeonhole we're constantly put in. I can't speak for others, but I know that I hold views that are probably considered right, left, center - and perhaps a little bit of anarchist thrown in (just kidding about that last part). But if we're ever to get to the point where we actually LISTEN to each other, perhaps acknowledging this would be a good start. Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Running Gator said: If I was asked Yes or No do I want the status removed, I would answer no. But I do not really care and it would be about number 1001 on my list of reasons for how I vote. Also, I thought you said polls were all fake and untrustworthy. You seem to care enough that you post a whole lot about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, ayin jade said: You seem to care enough that you post a whole lot about it. The story itself is fascinating. I find it intriguing to watch where the battle lines are being drawn and who is on each side. These sorts of events tell us a lot about people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,088 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,829 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted August 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said: I don't really think you have the ability to speak for the majority of the country. I believe if one were to be able to poll every single adult in the country, would most people be passionate on one side or the other? No. But the group that virulently wanted these statues removed would be incredibly small and the group that responded that they had no problem with these monuments would be the majority. The support for getting rid of them is not nearly as prevalent as we are continually led to believe. Antifa is what needs to go away, not the statues. You just said what I said. I agree the group that virulently wanted these statues removed would be incredibly small, and those that have no problem (which I would call the don't really care either way group) would be the majority. The only group you left out are those that virulently wand these statues to stay in place, which would be incredibly small as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted August 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said: I don't really think you have the ability to speak for the majority of the country. While no single person has the ability to speak for the majority of the country, I think I have a better grasp on it than most due to the diversity of my friends/acquaintances and the sources that I get my news and information from. Many people have tight limits on their friends and their sources of information. They live in isolated bubbles where all their friends think like they do and they all listen to the same sources telling them what they want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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