“As He Is”

[WordSword]

Once I discovered the use of the terms “position” and “condition” to help explain the Christians relation to God I quickly understood more specifically the status concerning fellowship with Him in Christ. Positionally, Christians are “as He is” (1 Jhn 4:17); Conditionally, we have a sin nature (Gal 5:17) and a “new “ nature (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10), but even though the sin nature yet affects us (cannot be avoided - Pro 6:27, 28), we are not desirous of it, e.g. not after or “in” the sin nature (Rom 8:9).

We still sin due to the sin nature but it’s “no longer I,” e.g. me in my new nature, “but sin that dwelleth in me,” e.g. me with my old nature - Rom 7:17, 20). This conflict reveals in our condition the infinite difference between sinning “willfully” (Heb 10:26; Num 15:30) or “unintentionally” (Num 15:24-29), which is all a manifestation of the Father’s “work in you” (Phil 2:13).

In our condition we still sin but much more importantly, in our position we stand “spotless” (Eph 5:27; 2 Pet 3:14). Where we are in our condition is what the Father uses to glorify Himself (Mat 5:16); Who we are in our position is with what He uses to fellowship. As it has been well said that, “God does not fellowship with our sin,” that is, not with us in our sin nature (though we’re not in our sin nature - Ron 8:9 - it is in us) but with us in our “new” nature, because it is after the Lord Jesus’ nature (Col 3:10).

Who we are in our new nature is all that the Father regards, thus we need not allow what we are in our sin nature and its affects to distract us in our understanding that it’s us in our position (Heb 1:3; 9:9, 14; 10:2, 22) with which He fellowships. What we are in our condition is used to teach us and to manifest Himself to ourselves and others.

May God give us to always remind ourselves of who we are in our position, more than what we might consider ourselves to be in our condition! One’s position is always vastly more significant than one’s condition! Similarly to the captivity of a king’s son; though restrained—yet a prince!

Bob Hall (NC)

[WordSword]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

Of course the age old discussion arises, 'is all sin intentional?' or 'are there sins due to the weakness of our flesh, the devil made us do?'

In any case our goal and desire should have our 'condition' be conformed to our position.

Hi Y, and good to hear from you! Yes, there is much need in our understanding concerning sins by believers, but in my opinion there are no sins committed by the believer that are his will and desire. Our condition is that we still have the sin nature and is why we still sin, but this is not the issue with God because He has not provided a way to live apart from sinning, which would require the removal of the sin nature. As I mentioned in the thread, the issue now for us concerning sin is that He causes us to be apart from the sinning; in the lack of desire for it (Gal 5:17) and instead in the desire for His "pleasure" (Phil 2:13).

Man needs no devil to supposedly cause him to sin. Our old nature is what causes us to sin and the devil just attempt to exacerbates it. When Jesus was rebuking the scribes and Pharisees (Jhn 8:44) He revealed that the nature of man is of the like nature of the devil.

God bless!

[WordSword]

39 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Word-Sword, IMHO, I would take a different tact, since all sin is rooted in unbelief, we stand without excuse (even as Christians).

The very core of our sin nature is unbelief and it is that unbelief we must own up to.

True, and I believe our "owning up" is done at rebirth when we repented. From there on it's according to how we are maturing in our understanding. Though unbelievers do everything in unbelief, any unbelief in the believer is not out of desire (which is the issue), but out of the old nature due and done in ignorance, i.e. concerning things God is teaching us but have yet to learn.

[WordSword]

6 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I guess that's where we differ, I believe the Christian is always subject to repentance/'owning up'...it's part of the purging/fruit bearing process.

Yes, I agree about our differing here. Concerning repentance, I believe it's a permanent mindset which is established during rebirth, we live in repentance and therefore are always doing so. From there on, it is like salvation, it does not admit in degrees but rather we are just progressing in our learning concerning understanding more of it's meaning, same for everything we received at rebirth (2 Pet 1:3), except faith, which is progress in strength, commensurate with our understanding (maturity).

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Yowm said:

Word-Sword, IMHO, I would take a different tact, since all sin is rooted in unbelief, we stand without excuse (even as Christians).

The very core of our sin nature is unbelief and it is that unbelief we must own up to.

Hello Yowm, 

I admit that this statement is very strange to me, I really don't know how to relate to it. 

Could you please explain it, and give an example or two, so I understand how it is so. 

[Willa]

Gal 2:20  ESV  I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Rom 6:11  NKJV Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

 

Freindt, to start all sin is rooted in unbelief, starting from Adam and Eve not believing the warning given and rather believing in satan's lie.

Then we have the Scripture which says 'whatever is not of faith is sin'.

From our unbelief even as Christians issue forth all other sins.

...but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him." (Heb 10:38).

Our Adamic nature is birthed and bred in unbelief. It takes the new nature to overcome.
 

I want to thank you for explaining, it was not to debate, only I wanted to know. Right now I can't say i understand your line of thought, but on one thing, when you said that Christians also are subject to this unbelief, so this has nothing to do with the primary belief about Jesus Christ as the Savior. Thank you. 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Yowm said:

Correct, and I'd go so far to say that a Christian's 'unbelief' could not reach a point that they deny their Savior who gave them the new birth. It's impossible to deny that which has changed you from the inside out.

From the beginning, I want to say that, that the OP made the proposition that is JESUS who puts anyone who believes under his blood. 

Everyone is called to believe as they are. 

They are numerous and different kinds of people, from all walks of life who believe and whom JESUS puts under his blood, because of their belief in him, or their faith. 

JESUS includes them to himself as they believe. 

Their position under the blood of Jesus Christ is established because of their faith, regardless of what they understand. 

This is the same as what Jesus said: no one can take you from me, nothing can separate us from the love of Jesus Christ. 

I do not support the ininsuation that anyone who has not changed his life and separate himself from the world has not really believe even though he claims to believe, because he has not prove it to others who are living in the new life. 

This is not true, because JESUS CHRIST is calling his own to become consious and begin to look in that direction. 

JESUS CHRIST does not make this as a prerequisite for the Eternal Life, because he gave them the ETERNAL LIFE the moment he put them under his blood, the same moment they believe. When they believed that JESUS CHRIST died for the forgiveness for their sins. 

That what makes the difference, and distinguish the faith of a man and the faith of a devil, who devil can not claim that JESUS CHRIST died for the forgiveness of his sins, and even if he does, this not true, and he can not be Saved, but a man can be saved because indeed JESUS CHRIST died for the forgiveness of his sins, and Jesus Christ knows that, and saves anyone who believes in him, from the mankind, and never from the devil kind. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Your closest friendnt
Change the world "your", to "the".

[frienduff thaylorde]

23 hours ago, Yowm said:

Word-Sword, IMHO, I would take a different tact, since all sin is rooted in unbelief, we stand without excuse (even as Christians).

The very core of our sin nature is unbelief and it is that unbelief we must own up to.

As it is well said.......confess and forsake.   repent .   Confess and forsake .  Good job yowm.

[Your closest friendnt]

24 minutes ago, Yowm said:

So once again, you draw me into a conversation with you, and then turn on me with a FALSE ACCUSATION (in red above) about my stance. Please show me where I have stated as you accuse me, or retract your misrepresentation of me or this time I will report you. I'm tired of you pulling this shenanigan  time after time.

Thank you from pointing out that I had used the word "your", I didn't see it to edit the post before I post, so as soon as I read your post, I immediately edit the post, and substitute the word "your", to "the", that all it took, the substitute of one word. 

Hope it's ok now, about no one read the post, to the contrary they read your strong stance in this matter, and perhaps something good came out of it. 

It's amazing how the Lord works in mysterious ways. 

 Feel free to point things out to me, because is not about me, others can also learn to be careful and edit their post. 

Glad you brought it to my attention. 

God bless 

I will revisit your post, and reply if there is something else. 

Keep in mind that our post reach the general audience and are not personal even if they sound so, my apologies, for the oversight.