THE TRINITY OF THE GODHEAD SEEN IN NATURE

[Guest shiloh357]

On 8/25/2017 at 9:54 PM, HAZARD said:

Fundamental Christianity generally teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Trinity are one, that is, united, in one body.

No, that is not what "Fundamental Christianity"  teaches about the Trinity.   We teach that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three Persons, who are fully God and yet also comprise one God.   That's how the Bible shows them to be.   We do not believe they are united in one body.  If you are going to cite the doctrine, at least cite it and represent it correctly.   An inaccurate foundational claim like this will only result in error being built on top of error.

Quote

If God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are "one God" in one body, all the Scriptures mentioned above are lies, and if they are lies then the whole Bible cannot be believed.

The lie that is being taught and assumed is that God has a body.   If you are going to assume that God has a body and then interpret Scripture from that false premise.  The same holds true from the standpoint of teaching that each member the Godhead has a body.  Both are simply not true and not substantiated by a skilled and competent handling of God's word.

Quote

A God who could not make Himself clear, or had to be interpreted and be declared a mystery is no God at all. Let us believe, like sensible men, that God can make Himself understood.

That is not entirely true.  There are things about God that our minds simply cannot grasp.   The Bible teaches that God is outside of our ability to fully comprehend Him.   There are things about God that we cannot understand.

Quote

He will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what men interpret His words to say. He has a right to judge men in the end if they constantly make Him false in all that He says, if they listen to satanic theories.

He will hold us responsible for believing what He says about Himself, but He does hold us responsible for understanding Him fully.  There are parts of the Bible that if we are honest with ourselves, we don't fully understand, but we believe is true.   God simply has not given us all of the light there is on certain parts of the Scriptures and He has not made every facet of His nature fully comprehensible to us.

The temptation for humanity is to try and fill in the blanks and that is the case with claiming that each member of the Godhead has a body, which is not true at all and the Bible doesn't say such a thing.

Quote

The Trinity consists of three divine beings each with their own separate body, soul, and Spirit as over 500 Scriptures prove.

No, they don't prove that.

Quote

To deny this and believe that God is three persons in one body is to believe the theories of men which cannot be supported Scripturally

Once again, the problem with this hodgepodge of nonsense you posted begins with a misstatement and inaccurate representation of the doctrine of the Trinity at the outset.

[enoob57]

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 0:15 PM, Yowm said:

Is the body equal to the spirit and of the same substance?

I think in nature H₂O is the best analogy, but still falls short, as water, ice and steam.

I agree as to essence... but as Shiloh has said there can be nothing created abled to fully represent The Uncreated... We will never come fully to His Wonder (that would be like being at the end of no end ) and that alone should drive us to worship Father, Son and Holy Spirit to the Glory and Honor of The Father forever... 

[enoob57]

6 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Right, that's why I said, "but still falls short".   

 

yes I was just enlarging from my perspective of that fact...  

[other one]

Why do we make such an issue of this.    Because when we see words we don't always see the same meaning.  Curse of the English language.

[other one]

7 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Should we return to the Tower of Babel? 

 

Did we really ever leave?

 

[enoob57]

I did! I couldn't understand anybody  

[HAZARD]

shilo 357 The lie that is being taught and assumed is that God has a body.   If you are going to assume that God has a body and then interpret Scripture from that false premise.  The same holds true from the standpoint of teaching that each member the Godhead has a body.  Both are simply not true and not substantiated by a skilled and competent handling of God's word. "

No one is teaching a lie? We are not assuming God has a body. Hundreds of Scriptures teach that God does have a body. Check each one out for yourself and see.   We are exact replicas made in His image, of God only mortal. God said to the Word and the Holy Spirit,

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (Gen. 1:26).

I believe what read in God's Word, teaches us that God has a body with bodily parts, hands, feet, eyes, head, mouth, hair, that He speaks, listens, has a heart, eats food etc. I have listed many Scriptures which shows this and many more can be found. When I say fundamental Christianity teaches I mean mainly the Catholic church. Many Catholics I have spoken with regarding these Scriptures do not believe them because it is contrary to their belief that God can even be reduced to a sliver of bread and held in a monstrance or tabernacle.

God has a spirit body with bodily parts like a man. This is proved by hundreds of Scriptures that do not need interpretation. God is a Spirit being, infinite, eternal, immutable, self-existent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, invisible, impartial, immortal, absolutely holy, full of wisdom, full of knowledge, and just in all things.

God is known in Scripture by over two hundred names. He is describes as being like any other person as to having a body, soul, and spirit (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-7).

He is a spirit being with a body (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6, 9-19, Exodus 24:11; Gen. 18' 32:24-32; Ezek. 1:26-28; Acts 7:54-59; Rev. 4:2-4; 5:1, 5-7; 22:4-5); shape (John 5:37); form (Phil. 2:5-7, same Greek word as in Mark 16:12, which refers to bodily form); and an image and likeness of a man (Gen. 1:26; 9:6; Ezek. 1:26-28; 1 Cor. 11:7; Jas. 3:9; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6).

He has a heart (Gen. 6:6; 8:21); hands and fingers (Exod. 31:18; Psalms 8:3-6; Rev. 5:1, 6-7); Nostrils (Ps. 18:8); mouth (Num. 12:8); lips and tongue (Isa. 30:27; feet (Ezek. 1:27; Exodus 24:10); eyes, eyelids, sight (Ps. 11:4; 18:24; 33:18); voice (Ps. 29; Rev. 10:3-4; Gen. 1); breath (Gen. 2:70; ears (Ps. 18:6); head, hair, face, arms (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-19; Rev. 5:1; loins (Ezek. 1:26:28; 8:1-4); bodily presence (Gen. 3:8; 18:1-22; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7; Exodus 24:10-11); and many other bodily parts as required by Him to be a person with a body.

God goes from place to place just like any one else (Gen. 3:8; 11:5; 18:1-22, 33; 19:24; 32:24-32; 35:13; Zech. 14:5; Titus 2:13). God is omnipresent but not omni body, that is His presence can be felt everywhere but His body is not everywhere. God wears cloths (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-19; God eats food (Gen. 18:1-22; Exodus 24:11).

There is not one Scripture in the Bible which states that God is intangible, immaterial, without a body, or bodily parts, and passions except John 4:24, "God is a spirit," and this certainly does not teach that He is without a body.

Paul speaks of the human flesh and bone bodies in the resurrection as being "Spiritual" (1 Cor. 15:42-44), like unto Christs glorious body (Luke 24:39; Phil. 3:20-21); so if human bodies that become spiritualized are still material and tangible, then certainly God and other spirits have bodies just as real and still be spirit beings. John 4:24 is a statement of fact that God is a Spirit, but it does not define or analyze a spirit.

Turn to Genesis, chapter one. God had been busy for a number of days during that re-creation week, making various CREATURES of the land, sea, and air. Nothing is said about them having the form of God Himself. After all those creatures were created notice what God says in verses 26,27, "....Let us MAKE MAN in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS.. ..So God created MAN in His OWN IMAGE, in the IMAGE OF GOD created he him; male and female...."

Right at the very beginning of the Bible, the Eternal God tells us that He created mankind in, not the likeness or image of the angels or any other spirit being, but He formed and gave mankind the IMAGE or LIKENESS of HIMSELF. God took the dirt of the ground and moulded the shape and form of man from it to resemble the image or shape of very GOD.

[HAZARD]

Quote

Shilo 357, The lie that is being taught and assumed is that God has a body.   If you are going to assume that God has a body and then interpret Scripture from that false premise.  The same holds true from the standpoint of teaching that each member the Godhead has a body.  Both are simply not true and not substantiated by a skilled and competent handling of God's word."

More Scriptural proof that God has a body.

God first revealed Himself in a mighty way to Moses from the burning bush. From that time on the Eternal and Moses were friends with a "buddy-buddy" relationship. This relationship between the Lord and Moses was so personal that it is recorded, "And the Lord spoke unto Moses FACE to FACE, as a man speaks unto a friend...."(Ex.33:11). Now our "no body" for God teachers will say either this is just a metaphor or God appeared as a human, but when in the "spirit" He has no body or face. Of course that is the answer they will give to any section of scripture where God appeared to men. But there was a time when God appeared to Moses IN THE SPIRIT FORM - the Lord opening up his eyes to see Himself in the spirit dimension, that the human eye can not
usually see, Read the example of the servant of Elisha in 2 Kings 6.

So close a relationship did Moses have with God that Moses was so bold as to ask the Lord to show Himself to him, not as a human but as He really IS. Moses' request is found in Exodus 33:18. Notice the reply from the Eternal: "....You can not SEE MY FACE; for no man can see me and
live."(verse 20). God did not say to Moses that He did not have a body and so did not have a face and so could not show Himself in the spirit form as having a shape. To the CONTRARY, the answer to Moses SHOWS CLEARLY GOD DOES HAVE A FACE AND BODY! He told Moses that no man could look upon the face of God in spirit form and live. How simpler can the word of God be in this matter? No theological degree needed to understand this verse, just believe it for what it says. In Exodus 33 18, Moses asked God to show him His Glory. "And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory." And God said to Moses; "I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; etc. God also said to Moses, "Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." Exodus 33:18-20.

Moses asked to see God's glory as expressed in His face or countenance, not to see His face apart from His glory. That Moses could have seen God's literal face is clearly stated in verse 11, where it says, "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face as a man speaketh unto his friend, and that he had seen Gods glory in a limited sense is clear from Exodus 16:10; and 24:17; so the request was for something he had not yet seen. Many others have also seen Gods face and spirit body apart from the glory of God.

Regarding the impossibility of man beholding the face of God when He "dwells in a light whom no man has seen nor can see" (1 Tim. 6:16, Moses became an example of this himself when his face could not be looked upon by the people, Israel, because of its brightness (Exodus 34:29-35; and 2 Cor. 3:6-18). God showed Moses His glory as expressed in His back parts, or the glorious after effects and glimpse of the glory after it had passed by (Verse 20-23). God gave Moses a further revelation of His character and infinite nature in, (Verse 19). The Hebrew word for goodness is "tuwb," superlative good; the best of a person; and absolute beauty. This refers to the infinite beauty or glory of God which was to pass before Moses while he was hidden in the cleft of the rock (Verse 22).

Jacob saw God FACE TO FACE and lived! "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved" (Gen. 32:30). Abraham made a dinner for God and two angels and they ate food (Gen. 18). Moses talked with God face to face (Exodus 33:11-23). Seventy four elders had a banquet with God in Sinai (Exodus 24:9-11). Joshua and all Israel saw God with a sword in His hand (Josh. 5:13-15).

Gidion (Judg. 6:11-23), Manoah and wife (Judg. 13:3-23), David (1 Chron. 21:16-17), Job (42:5), Isaiah (6:1-13), Amos (9:1), and others saw God standing on the ground, sitting on thrones, and having a body with bodily parts like a man. Ezekiel saw God on a chariot and described Him as having an "appearance of a man" with loins and the upper and lower parts of a body like a man (Ezek 1:26-28; 10:1, 20; 40:3). Daniel saw both God the Father and the Son of man as two separate beings at the same time and at the same place. God was on a throne, and had on white cloths, and His hair was white. The Son of man also had a body, had cloths on, and had hair on His head (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6). Stephen saw both God and Christ at the same time and place with the same eyes (Acts 7:56-59).

[other one]

48 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

More Scriptural proof that God has a body.

God first revealed Himself in a mighty way to Moses from the burning bush. From that time on the Eternal and Moses were friends with a "buddy-buddy" relationship. This relationship between the Lord and Moses was so personal that it is recorded, "And the Lord spoke unto Moses FACE to FACE, as a man speaks unto a friend...."(Ex.33:11). Now our "no body" for God teachers will say either this is just a metaphor or God appeared as a human, but when in the "spirit" He has no body or face. Of course that is the answer they will give to any section of scripture where God appeared to men. But there was a time when God appeared to Moses IN THE SPIRIT FORM - the Lord opening up his eyes to see Himself in the spirit dimension, that the human eye can not
usually see, Read the example of the servant of Elisha in 2 Kings 6.

So close a relationship did Moses have with God that Moses was so bold as to ask the Lord to show Himself to him, not as a human but as He really IS. Moses' request is found in Exodus 33:18. Notice the reply from the Eternal: "....You can not SEE MY FACE; for no man can see me and
live."(verse 20). God did not say to Moses that He did not have a body and so did not have a face and so could not show Himself in the spirit form as having a shape. To the CONTRARY, the answer to Moses SHOWS CLEARLY GOD DOES HAVE A FACE AND BODY! He told Moses that no man could look upon the face of God in spirit form and live. How simpler can the word of God be in this matter? No theological degree needed to understand this verse, just believe it for what it says. In Exodus 33 18, Moses asked God to show him His Glory. "And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory." And God said to Moses; "I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; etc. God also said to Moses, "Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." Exodus 33:18-20.

Moses asked to see God's glory as expressed in His face or countenance, not to see His face apart from His glory. That Moses could have seen God's literal face is clearly stated in verse 11, where it says, "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face as a man speaketh unto his friend, and that he had seen Gods glory in a limited sense is clear from Exodus 16:10; and 24:17; so the request was for something he had not yet seen. Many others have also seen Gods face and spirit body apart from the glory of God.

Regarding the impossibility of man beholding the face of God when He "dwells in a light whom no man has seen nor can see" (1 Tim. 6:16, Moses became an example of this himself when his face could not be looked upon by the people, Israel, because of its brightness (Exodus 34:29-35; and 2 Cor. 3:6-18). God showed Moses His glory as expressed in His back parts, or the glorious after effects and glimpse of the glory after it had passed by (Verse 20-23). God gave Moses a further revelation of His character and infinite nature in, (Verse 19). The Hebrew word for goodness is "tuwb," superlative good; the best of a person; and absolute beauty. This refers to the infinite beauty or glory of God which was to pass before Moses while he was hidden in the cleft of the rock (Verse 22).

Jacob saw God FACE TO FACE and lived! "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved" (Gen. 32:30). Abraham made a dinner for God and two angels and they ate food (Gen. 18). Moses talked with God face to face (Exodus 33:11-23). Seventy four elders had a banquet with God in Sinai (Exodus 24:9-11). Joshua and all Israel saw God with a sword in His hand (Josh. 5:13-15).

Gidion (Judg. 6:11-23), Manoah and wife (Judg. 13:3-23), David (1 Chron. 21:16-17), Job (42:5), Isaiah (6:1-13), Amos (9:1), and others saw God standing on the ground, sitting on thrones, and having a body with bodily parts like a man. Ezekiel saw God on a chariot and described Him as having an "appearance of a man" with loins and the upper and lower parts of a body like a man (Ezek 1:26-28; 10:1, 20; 40:3). Daniel saw both God the Father and the Son of man as two separate beings at the same time and at the same place. God was on a throne, and had on white cloths, and His hair was white. The Son of man also had a body, had cloths on, and had hair on His head (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6). Stephen saw both God and Christ at the same time and place with the same eyes (Acts 7:56-59).

Jesus said that no man has ever seen the Father.....   whatever you are thinking the Father is that Daniel saw I would think you need to reconsider.

[HAZARD]

The other one wrote;

Quote

Jesus said that no man has ever seen the Father.....   whatever you are thinking the Father is that Daniel saw I would think you need to reconsider."

.

 

Have you read and checked the hundreds of Scriptures provided, showing God has a body and has been seen by men with their own eyes, or are you simply assuming what you have been taught and believe is the truth and basing your belief on just one Scripture, (John 1:18, which simply means "To fully comprehend  or understand God" as Jesus does, while ignoring the hundreds teaching otherwise?

I don't "think" anything. I simply believe what God has revealed about Himself through hundreds of plain, simple, clear Scriptures, and I thank Him for opening my mind to His truth.

John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Greek, horao, like our English "seen," means to see with the eyes and also see with the mind. That it means here to "comprehend fully," or understand is clear from the fact that many men have seen God with the eyes (Gen. 18:2, 33; 32:24-30; Exodus 24:10; 33:11; Josh. 5:13; Isa. 6; Ez. 1:26-28; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6; Acts 7:56-59; Rev. 4:2-5; 5:1-7).

The verse could read, "No man has ever comprehended or experienced God at any time in all His fullness, save the only begotten Son . . . . He hath declared Him."

That Christ is the first to experience God in the fullness of the Holy Spirit is clear from John 3:34; Acts 10:38; Isa. 11:1-2; 61:1-2; Luke 4:16-18.