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Crazy4U

Saved from what exactly?

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On 8/25/2017 at 6:59 AM, Crazy4U said:

Is it right too say that Jesus is saving those who believe in him from his punishment, not sin itself.

No, it's not right to say that.

The punishment is required in order that justice should be done: where there is no transgression, there is no punishment. But sin's curse is more than just defying God; it has broken fellowship with the Lord, and placed the entire creation under a curse. Death now stalks the world due to sin, and with it, Death brings all sorts of misery and chaos.

Sin corrodes, corrupts and ultimately ruins everything and everyone it touches, without mercy, remorse or regret. It devours ravenously, never satisfied, and is always seeking more, and when rules are placed upon it (as per scripture), it becomes even more sinful, manifesting itself in defiance against God's order and perfection. And it never stops.

The salvation Jesus gives us isn't just from the Lake of Fire, but from the sin itself. Ultimately, when the church is translated from mortal to immortal in the Rapture, the old sin nature, along with these corrupted, decaying bodies, will be no more. We will be eternally free from death, sin and Satan.

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Eternity is a long time, so long we cannot even conceive it.  Sure, we think we have an idea, but we really don't.  What are we saved from?  Being separated from God and everything that is good.  Do a little exercise.  Take a piece of paper.  Draw a ling down the middle.  On one side, title the column Good and on the other side, title the column Bad.  Now, list everything you can think of that is good on the Good side, and the opposite of all you wrote as good on the Bad side.  Ponder the lists for a while and decide which side you want to live eternity in.  Since God is pure love, everything He gives is based on that love.  Rejecting Him and you get everything that is the opposite of pure love.  The good news is, you can have a little of that now though Christ Jesus, if you humble yourself by dying to yourself so He can live in and through you.

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On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 0:45 AM, Yowm said:

Sin, Satan, the world, requirement of the law, His Judgment, SELF.

good list :thumbsup: 

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On 8/25/2017 at 8:59 AM, Crazy4U said:

Is it right too say that Jesus is saving those who believe in him from his punishment, not sin itself. 

I mean if hell didn't exist, what would Jesus be saving you from exactly?

 

Yes, it is partially right to say. We are saved from God's wrath and judgement. But just stating that would not be complete. We cannot state that without considering sin.

We are saved from sin, which causes eternal death or separation of God, sends us to hell, which is the judgement rendered by God for sin. So we are saved from sin, death, hell and judgement or wrath of God.

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Eternal punishment is separation from God forever. Yes, there is a place in which one will suffer eternal torment, but the torment itself is the literal separation from God. No example is adequate to explain this concept, but I would propose that you think of earth as a paradise. Now, imagine the sun suddenly disappears. Total darkness. Absence of light. The earth cools because there's no heat. Plants die, leaving no food. First there's misery and suffering, then death. EXCEPT, in this scenario, you never die. You just suffer, wishing every breath would be your last, but it never comes. You just continue to suffer in agony - forever. All because of the absence of the sun.

Again, eternal punishment is separation from God forever.

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God is perfect (including perfectly just). Perfect Justice requires an account of all transgression. Sin is high treason against the highest authority in all of reality. Therefore eternal banishment from the source of all joy, peace, love, rest, comfort and hope is just punishment for sin. The voluntary sacrifice of the Holy Son of God is accepted by pure justice as fair payment for the sins of those who receive God's offer of salvation; through sincerely surrendering ownership of their life to Christ as a faith response to His gospel - thereby re-establishing their proper place in fellowship with God; under His benevolent authority.

God cannot deny perfect justice or He would cease to be perfect. So Jesus does save from the justice required by a perfect God.

He also saves us from sin. Sin has a corrosive influence, not just on the sinner, but on those around the sinner (remembering that Adam's disobedience corrupted all subsequent humanity as well as the creation itself). This corruption is the source of all human suffering and ultimately, death itself (from which Jesus also saves us). Sin is also a form of slavery to a master other than God.

 

Romans 6:16-18

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness

 

Galatians 6:7-8

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life

 

1 John 3:8

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

 

Romans 8:19-23

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body

 

1 Corinthians 15:50-54

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

 

So we need to be saved, not just from the punishment of our own sins, but from the corruption of sin more broadly.

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On 8/25/2017 at 7:59 AM, Crazy4U said:

Is it right too say that Jesus is saving those who believe in him from his punishment, not sin itself. 

I mean if hell didn't exist, what would Jesus be saving you from exactly?

 

From eternal damnation because hell DOES exist and it IS eternal.  And welcome to Worthy!

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She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,
because he will save his people from their sins." . Matt 1:21

I suppose that implicit in that, is that sins, have consequences. Jesus did not come, so that if you rob a bank, you won't have to go to jail. Some consequences of sin, we still get.

I believe that we are saved, from eternal, spiritual consequences of our sin. The main thing sin does, is to separate us from God, and the main consequence of that is that we never will be with God. In the end, there is a judgment, we are found either guilty, or not guilty.

Those found not guilty, spend eternity with God. Those found guilt, are permanently removed from God. in the after life, there are two destinies. One with God, that is good, the other where no good even exists, for lack of a better name, this is Hell, where a person is permanently under God's wrath, instead of God's blessing.

The bad news, is that all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God. In short, that means that all are destined to eternal damnation, unless we can be rescued. We cannot save ourselves, so we need a savior.

The good news is, that such a savior exists.

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

That name is Jesus, those who embrace Him, those who come to believe, those who trust (faith) that He paid the price for our sin, and that God raised Him from the dead, shall be saved.

That, is the gospel, the good news. So, those who have Jesus as their Lord, naturally seek to obey Him, and are thankful for what He has done, and only He could do, save us from our sins,

this is called justification. The idea is that though we are sinners, God is pronouncing us not guilty in His court, because His Son, paid the price to bail us out.

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I sense that there is too much consideration being given to the consequences of sin. The consequences to us. In essence that is rather selfish. What of the consequences to God? What of the offense sin causes God? What of the impact the pain and grief our rebelliousness has on our Creator? 

Why not simply take God at His word? When He promises that His Son would save us from sin...our sin...shall we not by faith accept that and live in the hope and expectation of the freedom that promise offers? That through repentance and faith in the power of the blood if the Lamb we can walk in victory over sin?

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4 minutes ago, brakelite said:

I sense that there is too much consideration being given to the consequences of sin. The consequences to us. In essence that is rather selfish. What of the consequences to God?

brakelite, that emphasis is due to the nature of the question. The question was not about sin and it's consequences, it was about what it is that we are being saved from.

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