Pope

[Robert William]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Are you the one that has introduced the term 'Romanite'? I had never heard it before a day or two ago on this forum. I was used to the term 'papist'. 

I like to say 'the way is as narrow as the cross is wide'...we only come into Life via the work of Jesus on the cross.

Yes, and most Romanites are on that path to the eternal lake of fire.

[spiderman1917]

12 hours ago, Robert William said:

Yes, and most Romanites are on that path to the eternal lake of fire.

You should not be their judge.  Sorry, that's not what the Bible says.

 Romans 10:9 ►

New International Version
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Catholics believe what is necessary for salvation.

Regarding graven images, that commandment was for ancient Israelites...there is nothing in the New Testament that says Christians can't have images or that we have to follow the old law.

[Robert William]

37 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said:

You should not be their judge.  Sorry, that's not what the Bible says.

 Romans 10:9 ►

New International Version
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Catholics believe what is necessary for salvation.

Regarding graven images, that commandment was for ancient Israelites...there is nothing in the New Testament that says Christians can't have images or that we have to follow the old law.

 

Romanites follow a false gospel of salvation by works.

I have personally seen this current Pope and his followers bow and pray to a statue of Mary.

Rom 1:23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rev 9:20  And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21  Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

https://carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Robert William

[spiderman1917]

54 minutes ago, Robert William said:

 

Romanites follow a false gospel of salvation by works.

I have personally seen this current Pope and his followers bow and pray to a statue of Mary.

Rom 1:23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rev 9:20  And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21  Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

https://carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

 

The Church never preached that we are saved by works.  The Church teaches we are saved by grace.

You destroyed your credibility

You really ought to learn what you are talking about before judging and condemning others.

I've been to plenty of Catholic masses.  They read from the Gospels at every Mass.  They follow the same Gospel as you.

I'm not Catholic but like to pray in Catholic Churches and sometimes attend Mass.

A Catholic could argue that you follow another Gospel when you preach the erroneous teaching that a belief must be found in the Bible to be true.

[spiderman1917]

Also, 

romanite

[roh-muh-nahyt]

noun

a fossil resin similar to amber, used for jewelry.

[TheBride123]

On 8/27/2017 at 8:29 AM, KiwiChristian said:

The Pope, is, of course, an Antichrist, while the religious machinery of the Vatican itself is the Whore of Babylon (as it derives its rituals and symbolism from the Babylonian religion of the seductive Semiramis). The Beast is the political structure of the so called "Holy Roman Empire of the Vatican, which will eventually amalgamate into a One World Religion and Government.

Pope Nicholas assumed the title of God. His words are:—‘I am all in all and above all, so that God Himself, and I, the Vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do . . . Wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God. WHAT CAN YOU MAKE ME BUT GOD? Again, if prelates of the Church be called and counted of Constantine for gods, I then, being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be ABOVE ALL GODS. Wherefore, no marvel if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea, with the precepts of Christ.’ See Decret. Par Distinct 96 Ch. 7 Edit Lugd. 1661.

Pope Nicholas said of himself: "I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ." (Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661)

Pope Pius X : "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but He is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ that speaks. Does the Pope accord a favor or pronounce an anathema? It is Jesus Christ who pronounces the anathema Or accords the favor." (Protestant Alliance Magazine, March, 1922).

 "All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17

"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth." Quoted in the New York Catechism.

Father A. Pereira says: "It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title 'Lord God the Pope,' for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII."

Writers on the Canon Law say, "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.

Pope Nicholas I declared: "the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man." Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para

"For thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth." Labbe and Cossart's 'History of the Councils' Vol. XIV, col. 109

These words appeared in the Roman Canon Law: "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.-I?i the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII Cum inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685. http://biblelight.net/Extravagantes.htm

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty". Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894

"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man (...) he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', pp.25-29

Roman Catholic Canon Law stipulates through Pope Innocent III that the Roman pontiff is "the vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but of a very God;" and in a gloss on the passage it is explained that this is because he is the vicegerent of Christ, who is "very God and very man." Decretales Domini Gregorii translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Devretales, col. 205

 "And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of his priest and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse to give absolution, provided the penitent is capable of it." -Liguori, «Duties and Dignities of the Priest», p.27

So, are these Popes wrong in saying they are basically God on Earth? This is a statement on faith and morals, is it not? How is this reconcilable?  

It is not reconcilable, God Bless

[HAZARD]

Hi Spider-Man. You said;

I'm not Catholic but like to pray in Catholic Churches and sometimes attend Mass.

*******************************************************************

Check this out Spider-Man and maybe you might think again about attending a Catholic Mass. I know all about the Catholic mass now as an adult. As an alter boy I once asked the priest what we were saying during mass, which was said in Latin  in my day as an alter boy.

We as young boys just parroted off what we learnt by repetition, as taught by the sisters.  He told me not to worry about what's being said and what the meaning of it all was, just come in where your supposed to respond. I have since learnt that the Catholic mass is proved invalid by the scriptures.

The invalidity of the Mass is proved by its being continued. If any Mass could validly apply the infinite merits of Christ's sacrifice for men, Then one Mass would suffice for eternity, since His work is infinite.

The fact that a priest offers Mass for the same people every day, including every Sunday proves that yesterdays and last Sunday's Mass were useless and invalid, for they accomplished no eternal Divine work.

Note especially Hebrews 10:12.  "ONE sacrifice; 10:14, by ONE offering; 10:18, NO more offering for sin. Leviticus 6:30. 

"AND NO SIN OFFERING, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: IT SHALL BE BURNT IN THE FIRE."

If the Mass is an offering for sin, and according to THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM, Jesus offers Himself daily as a sin offering same as He did on the Cross, If this is the case, the sacrifice CANNOT BE EATEN.

It can, as Jesus instructed us, be symbolically remembered, His flesh and blood cannot, according to the above Scriptures, be literally eaten. Jesus Christ in His flesh and blood body now sits at His Fathers right hand and is not being eaten.

The life of all flesh is the blood just as Jesus is the life of all human beings who accept Him. When He says you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, and in doing so symbolically in remembrance of Him we accept eternal life. Jesus called Himself the bread of God! "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world" (John 6:33).  "Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." (John6:33-35). 


Many of Jesus's disciples knowing God's aversion to drinking blood alone were perplexed by Jesus saying believers must drink His blood. They thought He meant they were to literally drink His blood, but this was not so and He explained this in John 6:63.

"Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:60-63). 

Many followers mumbled asking how one can literally eat Jesus's flesh and drink His blood. Jesus explained it clearly, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63). Literal flesh profiteth nothing the words Jesus spoke were are spirit and THEY are life. We are to physically remember Him through eating literal bread and drinking literal wine and in doing so we are spiritually eating His Words and spiritually becoming one with Him.

Scripture proves the Lords supper is the outward rite in which believers eat broken bread, not flesh, and drink the fruit of the vine, not blood. to COMMEMORATE the broken body and the shed blood of Jesus Christ until He comes again (READ, Matt. 26:26-30; Mark 14:17-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor. 11:20-30), there is not excuse for believing otherwise.

The "symbols," the "bread" and the "wine," will always remain just that, "literal bread and wine" regardless of who or what prayer is said over them. No man can change these elements into Jesus Christs real flesh and blood in any sense.

 

WHY, HOW CAN CATHOLICS, POPES, BISHOPS, CARDINALS, PRIESTS, IGNORE THIS STATEMENT BY JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF? IT'S SO THEY CAN AND DO HOLD THE PEOPLE, THEIR FOLLOWERS IN BONDAGE AND FEAR TO THEMSELVES!  

 

In Matthew 26 verse 29, Jesus Himself calls the cup of wine, "this fruit of the vine," and not His Blood!

 

Matt. 26:27, And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

 

V 28, For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
  

V 29, But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Here Christ Himself calls it; FRUIT OF THE VINE.”

TRANSUBSTANCIATION AND ADORATION OF THE WAFER WAS DECLARED AND DECREED BY THE POPES. Transubstanciation was declared and decreed by Pope Innocent 111 in the year 1215 A.D. By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of the people during Mass. The Gospel condems such absurdities. Holy Communion is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ (Luke 22:19,, 20; John 6:35; 1 Cor:26).

The adoration of the wafer (HOST) was invented by Pope Honorius in 1220 A.D. The Catholic Church also made it obligatory to have communion at least once per week, and even every day if possible.

If you read the Scriptures quoted you will clearly see nothing has been added.

Ignatius' letter to the Smyrneans 105 a.d.- He mentions the eucharist in his letter. The word eucharist is not one time mentioned in the entire Bible? Also there is no letter to the Smyrneans in the Bible either that I can find? Many people of many religious persuasions wrote many letters over the years but unless they are in the Bible they are of no substance as far as supporting doctrin goes.

[KiwiChristian]

On 9/10/2017 at 3:52 PM, spiderman1917 said:

First off, I'm not Catholic, I just like to pray in Catholic cathedrals.

 

Every Catholic institution has images of Mary, Jesus and male and female figures. An example of this are two statues at the French Papal Palace of Avignon, one of Jesus about 20 metres above ground level, and the other is an enormous statue of Mary, much larger, grander and higher up than that of Jesus. This gives the greater honour to Mary than Jesus. It also clearly breaks the second Commandment forbidding making images of things in heaven.

Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of the Christian Religion," admits that ... "Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images ... are ALL of pagan origin..." (Page 359).
 

 “Through some crack or other in the temple of God, the smoke of Satan has entered .” — Pope Paul VI, 1972

The Catechism of the Council of Trent states these words: "It is lawful to have images in the Church, and to give honor and worship unto them...".

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." —Exodus 20:5. Ok, so then why do so many catholics and the pope  BOW DOWN before a statue of Mary in their worship places?

Exodus 20:4,5 couldn't be any clearer that even BOWING down to a statue is idolatry.  Yet, Catholics foolishly claim that they are not worshipping the statues they are bowing down to.  BUT, God forbids us from even bowing to statues.  In fact, the Bible is so clear on this matter that the Vatican has even REMOVED the second of the Ten Commandments to deceive you.  

Exodus20:4-5. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."  Vs5 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God." Isaiah 42:8 "I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
 

The Pope deleted the 2nd of the 10 commandments so they could use statues & images in worship. They split the 10th commandment on coveting into two commandments so they could still have 10 in  number. Look at the list of 10 commandments published by the rcc! The issue here is not how the Ten Commandments are numbered, rather the issue is that most published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words, "you shall not for yourself an idol".
 

"The Sacrifice that is offered on the altar, says the Council of Trent, "is the same sacrifice that was offered in Calvary; it is the same Priest, the same Victim." "The lifting up of the victim as an offering to God," says Bossuet, "was formerly 1 of the ceremonies of sacrifice. "The Body & Blood are now lifted up in the same spirit, these being really & truly our Victim." The Mass therefore is a true sacrifice in which the Victim of Calvary is offered to God with all His infinite merits.

Just prior to the consecration of the mass, if someone added arsenic to the elements of bread and wine, would the poison within those elements be changed and made harmless after the consecration was finished, and would the priest and the people now partake of these changed substances, if not why not?

"Indeed, it is greater even than the power of the virgin Mary. While the blessed virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven and renders him present on our altar as the eternal victim for the sins of man not once, but a thousand times." "The priest speaks and lo, Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command." He has the power to go to heaven and pull Christ down, and sacrifice him again on the altar of the church.".  - Faith of Millions APPROVED by the RCC and carrying the nihil obstat and imprimatur.

Jesus, after saying "this is my blood" in Matthew26:28 also said "I will not drink henceforth of this FRUIT OF THE VINE" in Matthew26:29, showing that the grapejuice was STILL wine and had NOT been changed into blood.

There is another good argument against the Roman Catholic idea that Christ was speaking literally when He said, **"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." **
Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say Christ was speaking literally in that statement. If this is true then who was He refering to when He said, "given for **you**?" Who are the '**you**'?** If He is to be taken literally, then the '**you**' are only those in the room at that time. Not me, not you, not Mary or anyone else. We weren't there so clearly He wasn't speaking to any of us. He didn't say "given for **everyone***". If the Roman Catholics want to argue and say that '**you**' represents all of us, then they are saying '**you**' is symbolic of all of us. So they are admitting that Christ spoke figuratively in that verse. If I give one of my kids some money and say "this is for you" does that include everyone on the planet? 

" Power of Consecrating: The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating. 'No act is greater,' says St. Thomas, 'than the consecration of the body of Christ.' In this essential phase of the sacred ministry, the power of the priest is not surpassed by that of the bishop, the archbishop, the cardinal or the pope. Indeed it is equal to that of Jesus Christ. For in this role the priest speaks with the voice and the authority of God Himself. WHEN THE PRIEST PRONOUNCES THE TREMENDOUS WORDS OF CONSECRATION, HE REACHES UP INTO HEAVENS, BRINGS CHRIST DOWN FROM HIS THRONE, AND PLACES HIM UPON OUR ALTAR TO BE OFFERED UP AGAIN AS THE VICTIM FOR THE SINS OF MAN." - Faith of Millions APPROVED by the RCC and carrying the nihil obstat and imprimatur.

[Robert William]

On 9/14/2017 at 12:30 PM, spiderman1917 said:

You should not be their judge.  Sorry, that's not what the Bible says.

 Romans 10:9 ►

New International Version
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Catholics believe what is necessary for salvation.

Regarding graven images, that commandment was for ancient Israelites...there is nothing in the New Testament that says Christians can't have images or that we have to follow the old law.

Amen, there are always a few Predestined Elect.

[Robert William]

On 9/8/2017 at 12:04 AM, Yowm said:

Instead of repeating yourself can you address my earlier comment?...

The Judaizers in Galatians believed one must confess Jesus as Lord AND  be circumcised to be saved. Paul said such a doctrine was anathema.

The Lord Lord types will put their trust in the sacraments.