Knowingtruth Posted September 13, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yowm said: God's Word contradicts you, do you care to continue to call God a liar?.. But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name." But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name." (Act 9:13-16) Neither God nor Jesus can be liar. Jesus called him a 'chosen instrument', not an apostle because there cannot be more than 12 apostles. Unfortunately, rank outsider and ministry-absentee, Paul made many claims against the sublime truth of Jesus' words. Nevertheless, I consider Paul to be a saint and disciple of Jesus, but never an apostle. If follows, I reject Paul's speculations if they contradict Jesus' words Edited September 13, 2017 by Knowingtruth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couppy Posted September 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 135 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/27/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Knowingtruth said: I am against the claim of the involvement of the Holy Spirit in gibberish talk. Paul never said that it is a spiritual gift. Diverse tongues and its interpretations are spiritual gifts. Neither Jesus nor chosen apostles accepted Paul as an apostle. It was his self-claim, like, so many others. One can be wordless in prayer "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." James 1:17 NKJV. Praying in tongues is the same as the speaking in tongues (gifts of tongues) in the Church. The only difference is that the first edifies oneself, the other can be used to edify others. For the first, if you have the gift of interpretation you may be able to pray in the spirit and pray in understanding (hence interpreting the tongues). For the second, you can speak in tongues in a Church and also give the interpretation if you have the gift of interpretation, if not someone else will interpret. One thing you lack is the knowledge that God called Paul as an apostle so you feel it is self-claim. I am assuming you believe that all pastors that you do not know when or how God called them into the ministry are self-claim. If you are an intercessor with this burden weighing heavily on your heart and you are wordless in prayer what do you do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted September 13, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Yowm said: Apostle means sent one, you don't think God sent Paul? and now, you too, can have fun, testing your knowledge of who apostles are! Not on point, but it won't hurt anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowingtruth Posted September 13, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2017 6 hours ago, Couppy said: "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." James 1:17 NKJV. Praying in tongues is the same as the speaking in tongues (gifts of tongues) in the Church. The only difference is that the first edifies oneself, the other can be used to edify others. For the first, if you have the gift of interpretation you may be able to pray in the spirit and pray in understanding (hence interpreting the tongues). For the second, you can speak in tongues in a Church and also give the interpretation if you have the gift of interpretation, if not someone else will interpret. One thing you lack is the knowledge that God called Paul as an apostle so you feel it is self-claim. I am assuming you believe that all pastors that you do not know when or how God called them into the ministry are self-claim. If you are an intercessor with this burden weighing heavily on your heart and you are wordless in prayer what do you do? Paul defines spiritual gift as one that is for common good. So praying for your personal edification doesn't come under this. You have a wild imagination to back up what is not plainly indicated by Paul. God, Jesus and chosen apostles never claimed Paul as an apostle. Becoming pastors for the sake of living is not the call of Jesus. God can understand your wordless prayer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couppy Posted September 15, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 135 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/27/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2017 On 9/13/2017 at 0:52 PM, Knowingtruth said: Paul defines spiritual gift as one that is for common good. So praying for your personal edification doesn't come under this. You have a wild imagination to back up what is not plainly indicated by Paul. God, Jesus and chosen apostles never claimed Paul as an apostle. Becoming pastors for the sake of living is not the call of Jesus. God can understand your wordless prayer too. The gift of salvation is for the individual and we can choose to use it to edify others. A gift that edifies oneself develops the person spiritual and can be used for others. Paul even said it "Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord." Paul is confident about his calling in the Lord. If you are called to the ministry you must be confident and convinced that God called you. If you are not you are doomed even before you start. Some people will doubt that you were called regardless of what you do and how you do it. Someone, somewhere, will tell people you are not of God. You either believe them or are confident about your calling. I will not go so far as to proclaim I know that God, Jesus never claimed Paul as an apostle. I do not know God's mind to that extend. It may not be written in the scriptures but that does not mean God did not call Paul as an apostle. In addition, Jesus ascended to heaven and "he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:..." Ephesians 4:11-14 NJKV Jesus gave some apostles. I believe God called some Christians to be apostles regardless of whether they are accepted or not. He called some to be prophets as well. God did not only give us evangelists, pastors and teachers. I am glad the 5 offices are listed in the same verse 11. Either we believe the verse exist or we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowingtruth Posted September 15, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2017 29 minutes ago, Couppy said: The gift of salvation is for the individual and we can choose to use it to edify others. A gift that edifies oneself develops the person spiritual and can be used for others. Paul even said it "Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord." Paul is confident about his calling in the Lord. If you are called to the ministry you must be confident and convinced that God called you. If you are not you are doomed even before you start. Some people will doubt that you were called regardless of what you do and how you do it. Someone, somewhere, will tell people you are not of God. You either believe them or are confident about your calling. I will not go so far as to proclaim I know that God, Jesus never claimed Paul as an apostle. I do not know God's mind to that extend. It may not be written in the scriptures but that does not mean God did not call Paul as an apostle. In addition, Jesus ascended to heaven and "he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:..." Ephesians 4:11-14 NJKV Jesus gave some apostles. I believe God called some Christians to be apostles regardless of whether they are accepted or not. He called some to be prophets as well. God did not only give us evangelists, pastors and teachers. I am glad the 5 offices are listed in the same verse 11. Either we believe the verse exist or we don't. Yes, gift of salvation is for individual. So also spiritual gifts. It follows that another agent is not involved (interpretation for gibberish talk). Gibberish talk from person's spirit only needs a guess work by another person's spirit! Please don't quote Paul to defend him. You need to have at least two sources to substantiate that. Self-claims are of no value. Paul was crafty to push his agenda, so he needed status of apostleship badly. Please read Luke chapter 14 to understand the requirement for discipleship with the Lord. Jesus never called Paul an apostle for the simple reason that there cannot be more than 12 apostles to judge the twelve tribes. Did Paul have his own tribe? I believe he was celibate. Ephesians 4:11 contradicts Jesus' words. Do you believe Jesus or Paul? Paul will not give salvation for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowingtruth Posted September 16, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2017 On 9/13/2017 at 9:31 AM, Yowm said: Apostle means sent one, you don't think God sent Paul? And I said, 'Who are you, Lord?' And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.' (Act 26:15-18) Secular definition has nothing to do with spiritual significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couppy Posted September 16, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 135 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/27/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2017 (edited) On 9/15/2017 at 7:09 AM, Knowingtruth said: Please read Luke chapter 14 to understand the requirement for discipleship with the Lord. Jesus never called Paul an apostle for the simple reason that there cannot be more than 12 apostles to judge the twelve tribes. Did Paul have his own tribe? I believe he was celibate. Ephesians 4:11 contradicts Jesus' words. Do you believe Jesus or Paul? Paul will not give salvation for you. I have been brain storming trying to remember a verse or scripture where Jesus called Peter and the other ll disciples, including Judas Iscariot, apostles. Please can you direct me to it? Edited September 16, 2017 by Couppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowingtruth Posted September 17, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2017 20 hours ago, Couppy said: I have been brain storming trying to remember a verse or scripture where Jesus called Peter and the other ll disciples, including Judas Iscariot, apostles. Please can you direct me to it? Luke 6:13 And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couppy Posted September 17, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 135 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/27/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Knowingtruth said: Luke 6:13 And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles: Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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