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Apostles and Prophets


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24 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Kiwi, we all have a personal encounter of some kind with Jesus when we are born again.

you know FULL WELL what i am getting at.

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14 hours ago, KiwiChristian said:

heh. the HOLY SPIRIT equips us!

Plus, the apostles had SIGNS to PROVE their authority.

These modern-day fools have NOTHING!

NEITHER are they first hand witnesses of Christ.

Hi kiwiChristian,

So true that the Holy Spirit equips us, praise the Lord He does. Now how does he do that -

`However, when He the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak; and He will tell you things to come, he will glorify Me, for He will take what is mine and declare it to you.` (John 16: 13)

Do we need to see Christ in His full ministry, as the evangel, reaching out to the lost, the good Shepherd, with care and compassion binding up the broken hearts, the teacher, breaking open the word of God so we can be nourished, the Prophet, to bring forth exhortations and encouragements from the Lord, and the Apostle, to bring clarity to doctrine and bring forth the deep revelation of our precious Lord.

Do we need these ministries? Are we yet so mature we don`t need any aspect of the head, Christ Jesus to stop us being tossed to & fro?

Things to think upon. Marilyn.

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13 hours ago, enoob57 said:

One of the major elements of God's Word is to take upon that last of hermeneutical steps the whole council of God Gen-Rev and the above has failed in that necessity... We know Paul was taken by the Lord on the back side of Arabia and given the revelation of The Lord's life by these truths

1 Corinthians 15:8 (KJV)

[8] And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

[9] For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul knew the requirements of being called an Apostle according to The Lord

Luke 6:13 (KJV)

[13] And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

These twelve Paul was in his own mind least because of the murderous heart he had had toward the children of God... but never the less because of the requirements were met

Acts 1:21 (KJV)

[21] Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

[22] Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

[23] And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Clearly to take the 1Thes passages you cited and ignore this linage of thought above would be error to do so IMHO... the plural aspect does not reflect upon the list of Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians but of the actual distinctions given... to convolute Scripture is to insert meanings that cannot be stated as thus sayeth The Lord and in doing so is to remove precious divisions that are to be rightly divided within it.
Love, Steven

Hi Enoob,

Thank you for those great scriptures showing us how the Lord took the Apostle Paul aside and revealed to him such great revelations that we can read today.

Now as to the 12, as you have shown from scripture they needed to have walked with the Lord during His ministry and be a witness of His resurrection. This we know is the requirement of the pre-cross 12 disciples. We are also told by the Lord, Himself, that -

`...when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also sit on 12 throne, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.` (Matt. 19: 28)

Then we know that there are Apostles given by the Lord when He ascended for the task of bringing the Body of Christ to maturity. let`s look at some of these -

`But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul  heard this.....` (Acts 14: 14) 

`Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.` (Rom. 16: 7)

`Paul, Silvanas and Timothy.....we might have made demands as apostles of Christ.`   (1 Thess. 1: 1,   2: 6)

and others,

Marilyn.

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13 hours ago, hmbld said:

We can discus without putting ourselves over one another. Let each esteem others better. 

Thank you hmbld,

I do realise that people have not had the privilege of actually seeing and experiencing apostles and how they exhibit Christ`s life and bring forth clarity of revelation of the deep things of the Lord. Thus it behoves me to understand them and be patient, writing the scriptures to show they are a needed ministry in the world today. I do know that what is presented as `apostles` by the NAR, is abhorant, false and deceitful.

Thanks again dear bro, Marilyn.

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12 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

And since NAR makes even Charismatics look like Southern Baptists by comparison, denominations like the Assemblies are latching onto their corrupt ways and even partnering with them in some cases.  I think this is driven somewhat by jealousy.  Because it seems for Pentecostals, no matter what spiritual manifestations are supposedly going on, it is never enough.  They always want more or bigger or really spectacular signs that God is "working."  How does fairy dust falling from the ceiling show that God is working?  How does that benefit anyone spiritually?  How does it bring anyone closer to God?  A well-thought-out, biblical message, well-delivered will do more to touch people's hearts and spirits and enrich them and bring them closer to Christ than any message in tongues ever will.

Hi Cobalt,

So true, bro, I agree.

Marilyn.

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4 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Scripture is extremely clear that Apostles had to be a witness to Jesus' ministry from beginning to end.  You cannot simply remove that requirement so that someone can use the title today.  Anyone calling themselves an Apostle today is not an Apostle.

In Ephesians, Paul is speaking to his immediate audience.  He also uses the past tense, "gave."  That obviously does not apply to evangelists, pastors and teachers, because Paul gives the requirements for these offices continuation within the Church.  We do not have those instructions when it comes to the continuation of the office of Apostle.  Despite the fact that Paul was an Apostle, even he points out that he was chosen for that office in an abnormal way as opposed to the other Apostles.

Hi Cobalt,

Yes the 12 apostles, (pre-cross) had to be witnesses of Jesus` ministry and resurrection. We both agree there. However when Christ ascended He gave (by the Holy Spirit) of Himself, His ministry as Evangel, good Shepherd, teacher, prophet and apostle to equip, build up and mature His Body. (Eph. 4: 11 - 13)  Here are some -

`But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul  heard this.....` (Acts 14: 14) 

`Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.` (Rom. 16: 7)

`Paul, Silvanas and Timothy.....we might have made demands as apostles of Christ.`   (1 Thess. 1: 1,   2: 6)

and others. So we can see that it is not just to the Ephesians.

Marilyn.

 

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2 hours ago, hmbld said:

I am most interested in what you say here and in the past. I know a man who he and others call an apostle. Well respected by elders who knew him from his work over the last 70+ years. I've only recently met him and heard him speak. Never a time does he not go in at length to be generous in giving to his ministry. What you describe sounds completely different. I desire to see the real faith, not the commercialized junk that includes only a little good teaching. Yes, I'm looking and not finding. 

Hi hmbled,

That is so true regarding those false ones today, as even from the early Church too. I think people are expecting a CEO who does great miracles etc, whereas the true Apostles of our Lord are out in the harvest field all over the world, humbly working with others - equipping them, encouraging them as a mother and father as Paul did, (1 Thess. 2: 7 & 11).

Remember, Paul was a tent maker, and worked with Aquila and Priscilla, teaching and guiding them. They learnt the whole council of God and were thus able to help Apollos, who although great in the scriptures did not know fully the eternal purposes of God. (Acts 18: 24 - 26)

So what I am saying is that the true apostle of the Lord may well be out working and teaching others who then go and show the `the way more accurately.` Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the teaching from His apostles that you may learn the `way more accurately.` I would caution you not to look so much for `the man` but for the revelation of Jesus Christ, that they bring. God will reveal this to you as you have a seeking, hungry heart.

Blessings bro, Marilyn. 

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4 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi hmbled,

That is so true regarding those false ones today, as even from the early Church too. I think people are expecting a CEO who does great miracles etc, whereas the true Apostles of our Lord are out in the harvest field all over the world, humbly working with others - equipping them, encouraging them as a mother and father as Paul did, (1 Thess. 2: 7 & 11).

Remember, Paul was a tent maker, and worked with Aquila and Priscilla, teaching and guiding them. They learnt the whole council of God and were thus able to help Apollos, who although great in the scriptures did not know fully the eternal purposes of God. (Acts 18: 24 - 26)

So what I am saying is that the true apostle of the Lord may well be out working and teaching others who then go and show the `the way more accurately.` Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the teaching from His apostles that you may learn the `way more accurately.` I would caution you not to look so much for `the man` but for the revelation of Jesus Christ, that they bring. God will reveal this to you as you have a seeking, hungry heart.

Blessings bro, Marilyn. 

AMEN MARILYN..........................

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5 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Acts 1:21-22  21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,  22 beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
 

This is a requirement for being an actual Apostle.  Since every single person that could have been a witness to Jesus this entire period mentioned is long dead, there can be no more Apostles.  This is not conjecture, this is biblical fact.  Peter says they are to chose one to replace Judas.  Not many.  Just one.

There are no qualifications given in the New Testament for becoming an Apostle except the one instance above when one person was chosen.

IT was not the requirement for being just AN apostel..........it was the REQUIREMENT FOR THE TWELVE which are part of the foundation.

to be one of the TWELVE they had to have been with him from the start.  judas fell.............mathias was numbered in among the TWELVE

but barnabas and pual were apostels too.  they just were not the TWELVE ORIGINAL .   

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Just now, frienduff thaylorde said:

IT was not the requirement for being just AN apostel..........it was the REQUIREMENT FOR THE TWELVE which are part of the foundation.

to be one of the TWELVE they had to have been with him from the start.  judas fell.............mathias was numbered in among the TWELVE

but barnabas and pual were apostels too.  they just were not the TWELVE ORIGINAL .   

the LAMB himself being the chief cornerstone .  the twelve are the foundation , with Christ as the CHIEF CORNERSTONE.

but others can be apostels.   

Go ahead , you can ask ...........have I seen an apostel.............yes many ,but they have all been tested , tried and DENIED. they false.

but that don't mean their are not some around.  

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