Jump to content
IGNORED

LOSS OF SALVATION


KiwiChristian

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

On 9/11/2017 at 4:05 PM, Yowm said:

You forgot to emphasize the most important part...

11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified.

...and Paul was speaking to one of the most carnal of all the Churches, Corinthians.

Again, satan used Scripture, but out of CONTEXT. Spouting Scripture is not a guarantee.

He tells them they were "sanctified" ... "Justified" ... these the very ones to whom he then says ..

Do not be deceived into believing OSAS 1 Cor 6:Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

 

 

On 9/5/2017 at 8:29 AM, BobRyan said:

Disqualified from the Gospel : 1 Cor 9:23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it ... But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

seeks to be a "fellow partaker" of the gospel... does not want to be disqualified from the Gospel

On 9/11/2017 at 4:05 PM, Yowm said:

Disqualification from service/ministry but not from sonship.

On the contrary - Paul says he is talking about 'the gospel'

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

 

On 9/5/2017 at 8:29 AM, BobRyan said:

Forgiveness revoked: Matthew 18: 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.

 

On 9/11/2017 at 4:05 PM, Yowm said:

Sons don't cease to be sons when they hold a grudge, they get chastised by their father...unless they are not sons at all.

In the NT Adam is called "the son of God" - and Adam "became lost". A lost son of God.

The text says "I FORGAVE you ALL" -- this is Gospel forgiveness "revoked" in Matt 18

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

 

 

On 9/5/2017 at 8:29 AM, BobRyan said:

Here is what "scripture clearly teaches"

Fallen from grace, severed from Christ - Galatians 5:1-4 " You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace "

True, only showing that walking by the law is not the grace walk.

On 9/11/2017 at 4:05 PM, Yowm said:

True, only showing that walking by the law is not the grace walk.

 

It shows that they were under grace - and joined to Christ ... and then became "fallen from Grace" and "severed FROM Christ". The very thing OSAS claims "does not exist"

 

(There is no salvation - severed from Christ, and apart from the Grace of the Gospel)

Edited by BobRyan
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

On 9/11/2017 at 3:30 PM, Amazing Horse said:

 

You simply can't lose salvation , if your preacher preach that you can first rebuke him and show him the truth , if he is still blind then shake off dust from your feet  and leave that church , because that guy is preaching different gospel .

Or read the Bible for yourself and find this --

 

Fallen from grace, severed from Christ - Galatians 5:1-4 " You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace "

Forgiveness revoked: Matthew 18: 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Disqualified from the Gospel : 1 Cor 9:23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Stand by Faith yet fear being cut off from Christ: Romans 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
 

Do not be deceived into believing OSAS 1 Cor 6:Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

Preferences are "nice" and everyone has them... but I prefer actual scripture for doctrine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

7 hours ago, Yowm said:

A Hebrew scholar can  explain the various uses of the term son to you but I will say that Adam's sins were covered and he was not lost...

 

 

If Adam was not lost -- he needed no savior. Period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

7 hours ago, Yowm said:

Are you saying the Galatians were eternally lost or temporarily severed from grace?

Temporary - as we see in Romans 11

 

Stand by Faith yet fear being cut off from Christ: Romans 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

8 hours ago, Yowm said:

Please read the WHOLE CONTEXT, it is his stewardship as a minister of the Gospel he is speaking of...

For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship. What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings. Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
(1Co 9:16-27)
 

your own quote disproves your assertion. Paul is specifically talking about "the Gospel" and not credentialling, or some certifying body revoking his license to preach.

And we all know it. He does not want to be disqualified from the Gospel after preaching the Gospel to others.

 

Irrefutable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  14
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  364
  • Content Per Day:  0.15
  • Reputation:   80
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  09/02/2017
  • Status:  Offline

4 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Or read the Bible for yourself and find this --

 

Fallen from grace, severed from Christ - Galatians 5:1-4 " You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace "

Forgiveness revoked: Matthew 18: 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Disqualified from the Gospel : 1 Cor 9:23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Stand by Faith yet fear being cut off from Christ: Romans 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
 

Do not be deceived into believing OSAS 1 Cor 6:Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

Preferences are "nice" and everyone has them... but I prefer actual scripture for doctrine.

Or read Bible yourself and find John 10:28

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

Romans 8:38-39

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

If nobody can pluck them out of God's hand , then you either are mistaken or you think that you are God yourself , both things are really bad in this logic that you show .

Moreover you should stop using this perversion of bible that you take your quotes from , they really miss the mark of showing what it's written here .

Also good to point out that wicked servant did not stop being servant he just lost his authority , pretty bad verse for disproving once saved always saved .

Edited by Amazing Horse
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

Fallen from grace, severed from Christ - Galatians 5:1-4 " You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace "

Forgiveness revoked: Matthew 18: 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Disqualified from the Gospel : 1 Cor 9:23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Stand by Faith yet fear being cut off from Christ: Romans 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again
 

Do not be deceived into believing OSAS 1 Cor 6:Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

Preferences are "nice" and everyone has them... but I prefer actual scripture for doctrine.

6 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

Or read Bible yourself and find John 10:28

 

Finding a text that does not challenge OSAS is not the same as finding one that refutes it. The test of a given proposal is in the area of the evidence that refutes it.

 

6 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

Romans 8:38-39

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

If nobody can pluck them out of God's hand , then you either are mistaken or you think that you are God

Hint - Lucifer did not become Satan "because he was stronger than God"

Adam did not fall and need salvation "because he was stronger than God"

 

The warnings in the Bible are not about "beware of being stronger than God because then you might lose your salvation"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...