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Keras

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2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

And, while ethnicity is not a factor, per se, in "God's justification" of individuals, it CERTAINLY IS a factor in "salvation," as the term is used in prophecy; that is, corporate, NATIONAL "salvation!"

Where in Bible prophecy does it say there will be a complete national redemption and restoration of the Jewish people?

Zechariah 13 may be thought by some to mean that, but careful reading of that chapter makes it clear that it is not all of Judah, but just the House of David, which is a reference to Jesus, his descendant, therefore it is only Messianic Jews that will be saved, as many other prophesies confirm. If this truth is denied, then it creates a huge anomaly with the many prophesies about the end times, like Romans 9:27, that plainly say: only a remnant of Israel [Judah] will be saved. 

No, your determination to have the Jewish people got thru the Tribulation, while you go to heaven with the Church, flies in the face of all Bible teaching, esp the New Covenant and all the New Testament.

You think to 'escape'? Do you know what that makes you? Hebrews 12:8

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2 hours ago, Keras said:

Where in Bible prophecy does it say there will be a complete national redemption and restoration of the Jewish people?

Zechariah 13 may be thought by some to mean that, but careful reading of that chapter makes it clear that it is not all of Judah, but just the House of David, which is a reference to Jesus, his descendant, therefore it is only Messianic Jews that will be saved, as many other prophesies confirm. If this truth is denied, then it creates a huge anomaly with the many prophesies about the end times, like Romans 9:27, that plainly say: only a remnant of Israel [Judah] will be saved. 

No, your determination to have the Jewish people got thru the Tribulation, while you go to heaven with the Church, flies in the face of all Bible teaching, esp the New Covenant and all the New Testament.

You think to 'escape'? Do you know what that makes you? Hebrews 12:8

Shalom, Keras.

Ezekiel 37:1-14
1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
KJV

NOWHERE in this passage does Ychezkee'l suggest it is not to be taken literally!

Zechariah 12-14
12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces (shall be herniated), though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (Sukkot).
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV

Be sure you read these prophecies IN ORDER!

Romans 11:11-32
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring! 

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but LIFE FROM THE DEAD (RESURRECTION)? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy (given special attention), then the whole batch is holy (given special attention); if the root is holy, so are the branches. 

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive (oleander) shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! 

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery (secret), brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
 

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. 
NIV

I've used the NIV here for its simplicity in the English language, but you've got to understand that it's a little unclear in verse 27: The covenant that YHWH (the LORD) makes with Ya`aqov/Yisra'el (Jacob/Israel) IS when He takes away their sins! It's a little like "Who's on first."
 

Look, it's not "Israel" OR the "Gentile Christians"; it's "Israel" AND the "Gentile Christians!" God is NOT done with the literal children of Israel, and God will NEVER be done with the literal children of Israel! THEY ARE LITERAL FAMILY! THEY ARE MISHPACHAH!

Oh, and for the record, NO ONE "GOES TO HEAVEN!" Yeshua`s Kingdom begins HERE! ON THIS EARTH!

After He's cleaned up His country (like the scouring of the Shire), He begins His reign as the King of the Jews;
He will continue to reign and the nation will grow until He is King of Israel;
He will continue to reign and His nation will grow until He is King of kings - a WORLDWIDE EMPEROR!
He will be subduing His enemies throughout the Millennium, and death is the very LAST enemy that He shall subdue! BUT, death is not ultimately subdued until AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment!

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"Where in Bible prophecy does it say there will be a complete national redemption and restoration of the Jewish people?"

Here is just one [Romans 11:25-36]

Keep in mind that you are not and Israelite

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13 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Where in Bible prophecy does it say there will be a complete national redemption and restoration of the Jewish people?"

Here is just one [Romans 11:25-36]

Keep in mind that you are not and Israelite

But every faithful Christian IS an Israelite of God. We are His Overcomers of Satan and deemed to be a descendant of Jacob, by faith in the One Seed of Abraham: Jesus. We are to be finally admitted in full strength into the Olive tree and if the Jewish people continue as they have until now, in their rejection of Jesus, then they will be destroyed along with all the godless peoples. As many prophesies say they will be.  

The denial of the truth of Christians being the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, is just made to support the false rapture to heaven theory. Not going to happen and we have work to do here. Escape is not an option.

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On 8/31/2017 at 10:37 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Keras.

Don't be so hasty to put the last two thousand RECENT years in the category of "ancient times." Yes, the Jews alive today have suffered the fury of God, over and over again! Do you think the Holocaust was just a lark?! Do you think the Pogroms of Russia and the Inquisition was just mimsy?! Do you think the terrorist movements against Israel are "nothing special?" Countries all over Europe and Asia and even here in these Western nations have had serious movements of anti-Semitism down through the years. This is NOT "ancient history!"

Are you sure you're right in the light of these verses?

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
KJV

From whom else are you going to learn Hebrew, the original language of the Book? From a Christian Gentile? I don't think so!

Pay attention to the wording of the Scriptures: It's NOT "in Jesus"; it's "IN CHRIST"; that is, "IN THE MESSIAH!" If you knew what "Christ" truly meant, you would KNOW that there's a difference! Do all Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah? Of course not. Do all Orthodox Jews believe in the Messiah? You BET! They just need to be TOLD who the Messiah is! Most who attend their synagogues don't truly know anything about Yeshua` the Messiah; they are only taught that they must not believe that Yeshua` IS the Messiah because it would separate them from their families, their faith, and their G-D. BUT, if they knew His heritage and His claims, His power and His love, they would accept Him in a heartbeat! He prayed to His Father, their G-D! The works He did were FROM His Father!

Hear this: If it weren't for Christians, they might already BE Christians!

Really? Well, SOME "Christians" are WOULD-BE, SELF-IMPORTANT USURPERS of the promises of God made to Israel! But, God has NEVER reneged on His promises to the children of Israel, the actual descendants of the man named "Israel!" God is NOT an "Indian-giver!"

The Epistle (Letter) to the Romans (Gentile believers at Rome) 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so (when the fulness of the Gentiles has come in) all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Jacob or Ya`aqov was the one who was renamed to Yisra'el or Israel! Are YOU of his lineage?)
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but
as touching the election (God's chosen), they are beloved for the fathers' (the Patriarchs') sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (I.e., God doesn't CHANGE HIS MIND!)
KJV

Oh, and you have NO idea what you're talking about when you mention Matthew 15:24 and John 10:16! Both verses occurred when there was a legitimate offer of the Kingdom - DAVID'S Kingdom, by the way - to the children of Israel who lived in the Land at that time! Have you even bothered to look at the contexts of these verses?!

Matthew 15:21-29
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. (Gentiles)
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said
, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ("I'm not sent to Gentiles.")
25 Then came she and worshipped him (bowed to Him on her face), saying, Lord (Master, Sire, Sir), help me!
26 But he answered and said,
It is not meet (fitting) to take the children's (Israel's) bread, and to cast it to dogs (Gentiles).
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her,
O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
29 And Jesus departed from thence, and came nigh unto the sea of Galilee (back into Israeli territory); and went up into a mountain, and sat down there.
KJV

John 9:1-10:21
9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered,
Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed (rubbed) the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
7 And said unto him,
Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?
9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.
10 Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?
11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed (rubbed) mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.
12 Then said they unto him, Where is he? He said, I know not.

13 They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.
14 And
it was the sabbath day (oh-oh! :o) when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
15 Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees,
This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
18 But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.

19 And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?
20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.
22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ (the Messiah), he should be put out of the synagogue.
23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.

24 Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
26 Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again?
will ye also be his disciples? (OUCH! :shocked:)
28 Then they reviled him (bawled him out), and said, THOU art HIS disciple; but we are MOSES' disciples!
29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is (we don't know where He came from).
30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. (WOW! 
:crazy:)
34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out!

35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him,
Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord (Master, Sire, Sir), I believe. And he worshipped him (bowed before Him on his face).
39 And Jesus said,
For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which "see" might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them,
If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again,
Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? (why are you listening to him?)
21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
KJV

The Diaspora had already begun with the Captivity of the northern ten tribes of Israel. These were the "other sheep" to which Yeshua` was referring! At the time, God had not yet turned to the Gentiles; He had not yet "dropped the sheet" to Peter (Acts 10). Yeshua` had not yet declared the Jews "desolate" (Matt. 23:38).

Oh, without a doubt "only a remnant of the ethnic Israel, the Jewish citizens of the State of Israel (and SO many more in MANY other nations), will survive the forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath." There has been a remnant in many generations! That's the meaning of the prophecy of Yeshua` when He said,

Matthew 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation (Greek: thlipsis megalee), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days (of thlipsis megalee) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's (God's chosen's) sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

It's not the period that is shortened; it's the number of days of thlipsis that are shortened! To keep a heritage for Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqov/Yisra'el alive, God had to give them periods of reprieve during this last 2000-year tribulation, allowing them times to repopulate! Otherwise, NO ONE would be able to be rescued when the Messiah Yeshua` returns!

Wow.  There's that enmity again that was supposed to have been done away with.....dividing God's land, the church.  I sure will be glad when the two sticks become one.  We are to have our thoughts above, affections above, treasures above, bro.  Serve in the new way of the SPIRIT, remember......?  That way that says, now we know no man after the flesh any longer, Jew or Gentile.......nor glory in the flesh.......because flesh profits nothing....and we are all a NEW man.   Isaiah 51 and so many other scriptures shows the pattern of God's dealing with ALL His people.  Israel is the example to the church.......that we might all learn and be warned from her mistakes.  So now it's the Gentile's fault that Israel is not yet saved.......thought I'd heard everything........as if God is not on His throne and has no say in her salvation or what goes in the world.......which by the way He did prophesy and gave us clues as to the timing of Israel's salvation.  This idolizing of the Jews is wearing thin by now......I fear that those self hating Gentiles who do that are going to be the first in line to kiss antichrist's ring just because he sits in a Temple made with human hands, and they have their affections set on an earthly city.........unlike our father Abraham.

What Israel badly needs to do is repent, brother........and putting her on a pedestal and blaming other people for her sins and hardness of heart and pride and worldliness is not going to help her.  Is that ever how God deals with anyone......no indeed, He makes us all accountable for our own selves., or else we are calling Him unjust.  Love Israel, love the Jews........by giving them the real gospel, the exact same one that saves us.

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But, you, Land of Israel, yield your fruit for the homecoming of My people is near.[now: all true Christian believers]

 

Ezekiel 36:1-38

This is what the Lord says about the Land of Israel: Israel, the enemies have gloated over you and you were trampled down when you were occupied by other nations. I will speak to the Land, now plundered and despised by the surrounding nations.

In My burning zeal, I have spoken out against the rest of the nations, especially Edom, for with glee and malice they seized My Land as spoil. Therefore, because Israel has suffered the scorn of the nations, I swear that those nations will in turn suffer scorn.

But you, Land of Israel, bring forth your branches and yield your fruit for My people, for their homecoming is near. See how I will look on you with favour, you will be fruitful. I shall settle on you many people - the whole 12 tribes of Israel, [plus those grafted in] the towns inhabited and the Land prosperous. My people, will live there again, never again to leave. No longer will they suffer the scorn of foreigners.

When ancient Israel was living in the Land, they defiled it by their idolatry. I sentenced them to exile around the world. But I have concern for My Holy Name, so you Israelites, it is not for your sake that I am acting – I shall show My Holiness through you and all the nations will know that I am the Lord.

 

I shall take you out of the world, gather you from every land and bring you back to your homeland. I will purify you of everything that defiles you. You will have a new heart and I will put My spirit within you and you will desire to only follow My Laws.

Then you will live in the Land that I had given to your forefathers. You will be My people and I will be your God. Having saved you from all that defiles you, I shall command the Land to be plentiful, trees will bear abundant fruit and the soil will produce heavy crops. Never again will you suffer famine. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31

You will recall your wicked conduct and evil deeds and will hate yourself for them. Feel the shame and disgrace of your old ways, people of Israel.

The Lord says: when I have cleansed you of all your wrongdoings, you will settle in the Land and the ruined places will be rebuilt. The Land will be ploughed and sown, no longer a devastation [after the Sixth Seal event] and rain will come in due season.

 

The nations still left around you will know that it is I, the Lord who has done this.

The Lord says; once again, I will let the Israelites pray to Me for help. They will become many, as flocks of sheep in the Land. As Jerusalem has flocks of sheep at festival time, so will the towns of Israel be filled with flocks of people.

Then: they will know that I am their God.             Ref: REB some verses condensed.

 

Ezekiel 36 gives the story of how God will, in His burning zeal, clear the evil neighbours, Jeremiah 12:14, out of all the holy Land. Then, His people, the Christian Israelites, from every race, nation and language, will gather and settle in the Land. They will receive God’s Spirit and will live in the Land with great prosperity. This is in order for them to be a light to the nations and to prepare for the Return of Jesus.  

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1 hour ago, Keras said:

But, you, Land of Israel, yield your fruit for the homecoming of My people is near.[now: all true Christian believers]

 

Ezekiel 36:1-38

This is what the Lord says about the Land of Israel: Israel, the enemies have gloated over you and you were trampled down when you were occupied by other nations. I will speak to the Land, now plundered and despised by the surrounding nations.

In My burning zeal, I have spoken out against the rest of the nations, especially Edom, for with glee and malice they seized My Land as spoil. Therefore, because Israel has suffered the scorn of the nations, I swear that those nations will in turn suffer scorn.

But you, Land of Israel, bring forth your branches and yield your fruit for My people, for their homecoming is near. See how I will look on you with favour, you will be fruitful. I shall settle on you many people - the whole 12 tribes of Israel, [plus those grafted in] the towns inhabited and the Land prosperous. My people, will live there again, never again to leave. No longer will they suffer the scorn of foreigners.

When ancient Israel was living in the Land, they defiled it by their idolatry. I sentenced them to exile around the world. But I have concern for My Holy Name, so you Israelites, it is not for your sake that I am acting – I shall show My Holiness through you and all the nations will know that I am the Lord.

 

I shall take you out of the world, gather you from every land and bring you back to your homeland. I will purify you of everything that defiles you. You will have a new heart and I will put My spirit within you and you will desire to only follow My Laws.

Then you will live in the Land that I had given to your forefathers. You will be My people and I will be your God. Having saved you from all that defiles you, I shall command the Land to be plentiful, trees will bear abundant fruit and the soil will produce heavy crops. Never again will you suffer famine. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31

You will recall your wicked conduct and evil deeds and will hate yourself for them. Feel the shame and disgrace of your old ways, people of Israel.

The Lord says: when I have cleansed you of all your wrongdoings, you will settle in the Land and the ruined places will be rebuilt. The Land will be ploughed and sown, no longer a devastation [after the Sixth Seal event] and rain will come in due season.

 

The nations still left around you will know that it is I, the Lord who has done this.

The Lord says; once again, I will let the Israelites pray to Me for help. They will become many, as flocks of sheep in the Land. As Jerusalem has flocks of sheep at festival time, so will the towns of Israel be filled with flocks of people.

Then: they will know that I am their God.             Ref: REB some verses condensed.

 

Ezekiel 36 gives the story of how God will, in His burning zeal, clear the evil neighbours, Jeremiah 12:14, out of all the holy Land. Then, His people, the Christian Israelites, from every race, nation and language, will gather and settle in the Land. They will receive God’s Spirit and will live in the Land with great prosperity. This is in order for them to be a light to the nations and to prepare for the Return of Jesus.  

Shalom, Keras.

Interpreting these passages as anything other than what they SAY is just allegorizing the text; you will look as silly as those who believe that the allegorical interpretation of Scripture is the "SPIRITUAL" way to look at the Bible, like Pope Gregory's interpretation of Job:

‘The patriarch’s three friends denote the heretics;
his seven sons are the twelve apostles;
his seven thousand sheep are God’s faithful people; and
his three thousand hump-backed camels are the depraved Gentiles!’
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/introduction/the-rise-of-allegorical-interpretation.html

Edited by Retrobyter

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24 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Interpreting these passages as anything other than what they SAY is just allegorizing the text;

I believe what the Ezekiel 36 prophecy says; 

1/  The holy Land will be cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32:43

2/ We will be gathered out of the world. Ezekiel 20:34-38

3/ We Christians will be His people and He will be our God. Ezekiel 39:25-29

If you want to believe that these prophesies only apply to ethnic Israel, the Jewish people, then you contradict New Testament teaching.

The Heirs of the Holy Land:

 

Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ, indeed, we have been given the heritage, as was decreed in God’s purpose. For it was His will that we who set our hopes in Jesus, should be the ones to make His glory known and praised.

We Christians have the Seal of the Holy Spirit, which is the pledge of the inheritance that will be ours when God has redeemed His own.

 

Romans 8:16-18 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God…..it is the Spirit of adoption, so we can call Him ‘Father’.  This affirms that we are God’s children and if children, then heirs, heirs of God’s promises through Christ.

But we must share His suffering, if we are also to share His glory.

 

Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises of God through Jesus.

 

Galatians 3:29 So if you belong to Christ, then you are the issue of Abraham and heirs of God’s promises.  [to the Patriarchs]

 

Colossians 1:12 We give thanks to the Father who has made us fit to share in the heritage of God’s people in the Kingdom of light.

 

It is quite evident that the vast multitude seen in Jerusalem, Revelation 7:9, is far more that the remnant of the Jewish people. Romans 9:27

Many prophesies make it plain that in the end times there will be a people in God’s holy Land, who will be His people, those who seek the Lord and who know what is right. Isaiah 51:1

                                                           

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Keras said:

I believe what the Ezekiel 36 prophecy says; 

1/  The holy Land will be cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32:43

2/ We will be gathered out of the world. Ezekiel 20:34-38

3/ We Christians will be His people and He will be our God. Ezekiel 39:25-29

If you want to believe that these prophesies only apply to ethnic Israel, the Jewish people, then you contradict New Testament teaching.

 

Ezekiel can only be referring to ethnic Jews as Christians have no earthly inheritance in this world.  Christians have no earthly land; we belong to a heavenly kingdom.

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