2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

[Diaste]

For many years I heard the above passage referred to the Holy Spirit or Micheal the Archangel, depending on the author. I believe I have heard it's a reference to the Church as well. Obviously the idea is that either the HS, Micheal, or the Church, is removed from the scene and then the beast is revealed to do his evil work.

Recently, maybe not so recently, a Pastor has said this actually means the revealing of the beast is withholding the return of Jesus. As in, Jesus will only return after the two events of 2 Thess 2:3. The idea just came to my attention and I would like to say it has merit.

A short investigation certainly seems to confirm the accuracy of this idea.

[Amazing Horse]

2 Thessalonians 2:6 says Church must be removed

2 Thessalonians 2:8 for antichrist to be revealed .

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

2 Thessalonians 2:6 says Church must be removed

2 Thessalonians 2:8 for antichrist to be revealed .

Any proof? I know that is what has been said for many years but just saying it doesn't make it so.

[Amazing Horse]

2 Thes 2:8 speaking of antichrist , because it's described as the one with power and signs and lying wonders who is doing it by power of Satan 2 Thess 2:9 , and we find that guy in Revelation 13:5-8 , by that time church is in heaven because it would simply be impossible to both be removed from hour of temptation Revelation 3:10 and antichrist murdering everybody who will not bow to image of beast , because then it would contradict both Revelation 3:10 and Matthew 16:18 , also antichrist killing church would contradict with prophecy in Isaiah about prepared place for us 26:18-21 which is confirmed by Jesus in John 14:2 in context of rapture .

Also if church was in tribulation then you could lose your salvation by taking mark of beast which is contradicting at least 20+ scriptures of eternal security .

Edited September 2, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

2 Thes 2:8 speaking of antichrist , because it's described as the one with power and signs and lying wonders who is doing it by power of Satan 2 Thess 2:9 , and we find that guy in Revelation 13:5-8 , by that time church is in heaven because it would simply be impossible to both be removed from hour of temptation Revelation 3:10 and antichrist murdering everybody who will not bow to image of beast , because then it would contradict both Revelation 3:10 and Matthew 16:18 , also antichrist killing church would contradict with prophecy in Isaiah about prepared place for us 26:18-21 which is confirmed by Jesus in John 14:2 in context of rapture .

Also if church was in tribulation then you could lose your salvation by taking mark of beast which is contradicting at least 20+ scriptures of eternal security .

 No insight on 2 Thess 2:6-7? From the context the AC is the one withholding. That and the occurrence of apostasia, however that plays out. Paul is saying the coming of Jesus AND our gathering to Him cannot occur until the two events occur first and that the revealing of the man of sin is what is preventing Jesus and the gathering. I don't see the church being removed here. How is, "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time." (2 Thess 2:6), the church being removed from earth?

[ENOCH2010]

Michael is the one holding him back 

[Amazing Horse]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

 No insight on 2 Thess 2:6-7? From the context the AC is the one withholding. That and the occurrence of apostasia, however that plays out. Paul is saying the coming of Jesus AND our gathering to Him cannot occur until the two events occur first and that the revealing of the man of sin is what is preventing Jesus and the gathering. I don't see the church being removed here. How is, "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time." (2 Thess 2:6), the church being removed from earth?

Holy Spirit must be removed from earth which dwell inside of us , because antichrist would not be able to rule over all world . Also Genesis 6:3 prophecy must be fullfilled .

If you think that antichrist need to be revealed to make church disappear then this logic would allow satan to never reveal antichrist and we could never go to heaven and Jesus could never return , pretty bad logic for me .

Edited September 3, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.
 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
 5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
 

It could not be the Antichrist from the context of the verse because he would be holding himself back.  The accepted view is that it is the Holy Spirit through the Church that is "holding back."

Actually the context of the passage is the return of Jesus and the gathering and the fears of the Thessalonians they missed it. Paul is allaying those fears by telling then the day will not come until...Right there we know there is something delaying the day of Jesus return and the gathering, Paul states it very clearly. From your statement then the church and the HS would be the delay for Christs return if the church is indeed 'withholding'. But Paul says the rebellion and the revealing of the man of sin will occur before Jesus' return and the gathering. In verse 6 the context is still the return of Jesus and what is holding him back until he can be revealed.

A very interesting Greek study enlightens this passage. I can post the gory details if you wish but here is the closest I can come to the English for 2 Thess 2:7, i.e, "only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way," ;

If we adhere to the Greek and continue in the same context as Paul this fragment should read a bit differently, e.g. “Simply endure for now until he rises in the middle.” or, “Merely holdfast for now until he appears to the world from in the midst.” Maybe, “Wait until the coming into being in the middle,” is better.  Or perhaps even better might be the idea that the withholding will continue until apostasia is complete and the man of sin is revealed, becoming or coming into being; manifesting to the world from right in between, or the middle, or in the midst of. The Greek words used by Paul are reflected much better in this way and clearly refers to the revealing of the beast in the middle of the week at the A of D.

 

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

Holy Spirit must be removed from earth which dwell inside of us , because antichrist would not be able to rule over all world . Also Genesis 6:3 prophecy must be fullfilled .

If you think that antichrist need to be revealed to make church disappear then this logic would allow satan to never reveal antichrist and we could never go to heaven and Jesus could never return , pretty bad logic for me .

I have no idea how Gen 6:3 fits in here so I can't address that. I want to discuss 2 Thess 2:6-7 as from study it looks as though it didn't translate too well. I suppose your statement could be true, except for two things: God is the one in control over the times and seasons, not Satan, so the beast will be revealed in Gods timing, and scripture says, "to die is gain." and, "I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.”

It looks like Paul anticipated going directly to be with Jesus at the time of his own death. 

Paul makes reference to the return of Jesus and the gathering in 2 Thess 2:6-7. Allaying the fear of believers over missing this he tell them the Return and the gathering will not happen until the rebellion and the revealing of the beast. Right there we know the revealing and the rebellion must occur before Jesus return. Continuing, Paul tells them they now know what withholds the gathering the Thessalonians feared they missed; and that is the rebellion and the revealing. This adheres to context and addresses Paul's statement, "...for that day will not come until..." If the gathering and the Return can only occur after the rebellion and the revealing, then necessarily the first set of events are holding back the second set.

The 'him' in v 5 would then have to be Jesus and the 'proper time of revealing' would be in that context. In other words Jesus return and Jesus revealing from heaven are waiting for the proper time, after the rebellion and the revealing of the beast.

The verse 7 fragment, "...only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way,..." has been translated in an odd fashion. I would think the translators believed staying in context was important here and it's meaning clear. Using context this fragment would mean, "The beasts rise will continue to hold back Jesus return until the beast's time ends." 

From the Greek, I will post the Greek and definitions if you wish, this fragment would read, "Simply endure for now until he rises in the middle." A reference to the rise of the beast at the A of D.

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Michael is the one holding him back 

But's it's Jesus that's being held back from returning. And Paul says it's the rebellion and the revealing of the beast that must occur first, effectively delaying the Return and the gathering.

Any other evidence that the archangel is the withholder?