2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

8 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

On that you are partly right.    the christains will see this all inclusive false love and unity as a means for world peace

the muslims will see the same thing

the buddists will see the same thing

the non religious will see the same thing.  IT WILL COME as one of unity all inclusive , world peace , false love,  accepting mankinds transgressions as good.

aka gay and transgender , its all good in its eyes.    Gotta warn us all ,    THIS SPIRIT is already at work.  just take a peep , look at rome

look at jerusalme , look at the media , look at politicians,    More and more all inclusive  and also more and more divisions.

but the divisions through the chaos this will create, will only lead more and more right to the answer of the all inclusive.   ITS ALL ON E PLAN

DIVIDE and CONQUER.   and Plant the solution , then More and more in time will HEED the coming answer from a man and men .   AND all hell busts loose

under the great tribulation.  SEE,   ITS THE BIBLICAL CHRISTAINS that will end up NOT following this all inclusive dung pile , all others will

THEN when the man it leads too arrives...............HIS SOLUTOIN for world peace ,  well............its lamb killing time .    THAT is what is coming.  but fear not.  fear not .

Just endure faithful in Christ .     to the very end amen.

Nope, it  will be a Muslim Jesus who instates the Muslim Mahdi who will rule the world. He will bring in Sharia law and if people don't accept this they will have their heads chopped off as per Shari law: 

Rev 20:4

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

and eventually if you want to buy food you need to get the mark which will involve denying all other religions and accepting Islam (the beast religion): 

Rev 13

15The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

 

[WilliamL]

On 10/22/2017 at 4:21 AM, Diaste said:

On 10/17/2017 at 1:00 PM, WilliamL said:

I take this to be the time prophesied in Daniel 11-12:

Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land [Israel]... 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas at  the glorious holy mountain [= the Abomination of Desolation and 2 Thes. 2:4]; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time [= the Great Tribulation]: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake...  [= the resurrection of the dead just prior to the Rapture].

By this I presume that you are presuming that the Beast = the Son of Perdition. For which you did not provide a lick of prophetic scriptural evidence.

 

 

I think this is a convolution. Great tribulation and the coming of Jesus and the gathering are not the same thing. Just what is Paul talking about in 2 Thess 2? There is no oblique reference if the entire text is employed discerning the truth.  [etc.]

 

First off, thank you for expressing your thinking this time, instead of just dissing mine out of hand like you did before. But you never really respond to  how the passage out of Daniel that I quoted fits in to your understanding of 2 Thes. 2.

Daniel 12:1 -- there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time -- is clearly what Jesus referred to in Matt. 24:21 --

Matt 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)... 21 then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Because of this equivalence between the two verses, the preceding verse  of Dan. 11:40 becomes highly significant. People who choose to ignore that significance miss out on what Daniel reveals about key events to occur in Jerusalem just prior to the resurrection of the dead [Dan. 12:2]. And since 2 Thes. 2 is also speaking about precisely this same period... well, maybe some people here will pay attention.

 

 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

First off, thank you for expressing your thinking this time, instead of just dissing mine out of hand like you did before. But you never really respond to  how the passage out of Daniel that I quoted fits in to your understanding of 2 Thes. 2.

Daniel 12:1 -- there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time -- is clearly what Jesus referred to in Matt. 24:21 --

Matt 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)... 21 then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Because of this equivalence between the two verses, the preceding verse  of Dan. 11:40 becomes highly significant. People who choose to ignore that significance miss out on what Daniel reveals about key events to occur in Jerusalem just prior to the resurrection of the dead [Dan. 12:2]. And since 2 Thes. 2 is also speaking about precisely this same period... well, maybe some people here will pay attention.

 

 

I do apologize if I seem dismissive. I don't mean to. I have a zealous nature. Coupled with strong convictions and the tendency to speak out I can be, well, difficult. I'll try to do better.

I agree with the reference between Dan 12:1, which seems to be an extension of Dan 11, and Matt 24:21. Clearly the same idea. But what's the conclusion? To what are we to pay attention?

[Diaste]

On 10/22/2017 at 1:24 PM, OldCoot said:

I have no doubt that Missler doesn’t see things the way you see them.  Neither do I.  But until I have evidence of your being the one who inspired the text, your thoughts on these things carry no more weight than anyone else’s.

And so then what? You waiting for the Holy Spirit to show up and explain it all? You seem to rely heavily on some expositors, commentators and authors. How can you be sure what they say has veracity? Mankind did not inspire any scripture. So what then is the standard? Guidelines? Truthful and accurate teachers? There must be a way to discern truth with all assurance. How do we get there?

[OldCoot]

17 minutes ago, Diaste said:

And so then what? You waiting for the Holy Spirit to show up and explain it all? You seem to rely heavily on some expositors, commentators and authors. How can you be sure what they say has veracity? Mankind did not inspire any scripture. So what then is the standard? Guidelines? Truthful and accurate teachers? There must be a way to discern truth with all assurance. How do we get there?

Do your own study.  Act like a Berean.  You know, those folks in Acts who listened to Paul but then searched the scripture daily to see if he was right or full of Buffalo bagels.  They were commended for doing that.

Sure, I read or hear a lot of stuff from various expostors and such.  And I know of none of them I agree 100% with.

Edited October 26, 2017 by OldCoot

[Diaste]

On 10/22/2017 at 12:18 PM, Davida said:

You are twisting the word "Lie"  to suit your narrative.

That is your contention. In effect you are accusing me of lying to promote a personal agenda. After all, am I not then knowingly, with intent, being deceptive in your opinion? Isn't this just what you told me earlier was wrong of me to do when it was impossible to know the mind and heart of the people you accused me of calling liars? But know you know my heart and mind with perfect clarity.  Pretty impressive. How do you do that?

For the record I didn't call any individual 'liar'. I called out an ideology as a lie. Check the posts. 

NT references.

Lie, 5579                                                                                                                          

John 8:44, 2 Thess 2:11, 1 John 2:21, 1 John 2:27, Rev 21:27,  Rev 22:15                                                                                

pseudos: a falsehood, untruth, lie
Short Definition: a lie
Definition: a lie, falsehood, untruth; false religion.

[Diaste]

On 10/22/2017 at 3:12 PM, OldCoot said:

I don't see any conflict with Mat 24 and a pre-trib position.  More that willing to discuss it one verse at at time.  Please do not write a college dissertation length response quoting half the New Testament as is the habit of many on the forum, as something will get overlooked, taken wrong, etc.  Let's discuss it like brethren sitting at a table having coffee and take it one step at a time.  We can each present our take on the passage verses.  We might want to start a new thread on it before discussing, as it could get lengthy. 

Splendid idea! 

I would engage in such a discussion if we could agree to certain ground rules. 

I propose:

References limited to, KJV, AKJV, NKJV, NIV. A concordance; any will do. Greek and Aramaic dictionaries and translators. Online dictionaries and translators all agree so that works for me.

This means no authors outside scripture except for hard historical, archaeological, academic data such as maps, dates, times and places. 

 

[Diaste]

28 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

Do your own study.  Act like a Berean.  You know, those folks in Acts who listened to Paul but then searched the scripture daily to see if he was right or full of Buffalo bagels.  They were commended for doing that.

Sure, I read or hear a lot of stuff from various expostors and such.  And I know of none of them I agree 100% with.

Yes. It's been many years of Berean study. I found many things to be incorrect and also a great deal of truth. One was the hard truth of a horrific period of time prosecuted by evil incarnate. Not exactly fun. Truth none the less.

[Daniel 11:36]

Amen Davida

[simplejeff]

https://www.google.com/search?q=pre-trib+contradictions&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Actually,  it is not the contradictions by themselves that prove pre-trib theories are wrong (it only takes one contradiction to prove that) ,

but other unassailable realities (that are a lot more unfortunate, actually heart breaking) of the

lives of those who cling to the pre-trib theories ....  that provides the best evidence that the pre-trib theories presented so far on this forum  aren't acceptable as they are.....

at least not in the way they are presented.

Until ALL the contradictions are resolved, IF they are ever resolved,

and until the lives of those who are claiming pre-trib theory is true fits all that Scripture Says of followers of Jesus,

then there is no reason to accept the pre-trib theories.

Not so far anyway.   i.e. the currently proposed pre-trib theories on this forum do not pass the tests of Scripture ....