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Pre-Tribulation Proofs

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Proofs of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture (Errors of Post-Tribulation Rapture)


1. Revelation 19:11-21 does not mention a resurrection at the time of the glorious return of Christ.

2. Zechariah 14:1-5 does not mention a resurrection at the time of Christ’s glorious return. Why?

3. Not one Old Testament or NT passage which discusses the tribulation mentions the church.

4. The unknown day of the rapture, and the known day of the glorious appearing, cannot be the same day. Matthew 25:13.

5. ‘A door was opened in heaven’ (Rev. 4:1) to let John into heaven, is before the tribulation (Rev. 6).

6. ‘Come up hither’ (Rev 4:1). A voice called John to ‘come up hither’. Immediately he was in heaven.

7. The church is not on earth from Revelation 4-18, because of these observations:

i) The church on earth is mentioned 22 times in Revelation 1-3, but not once on earth from Rev. 5-19.
ii) The church is in heaven with resurrected bodies from Revelation 4-19 as seen by 9 statements.

8. The Rapture of the 24 elders of the church age (Revelation 4:1-11) occurs before the antichrist is revealed as the white horse rider at the beginning of the 7 years tribulation in Revelation 6:1,2.

The 24 Elders represent Old Testament and church age Christians raptured before the tribulation (Rev 5:9)

9. The 24 elders have their crowns of gold (Revelation 4:4).

10. The armies in heaven that follow Jesus Christ at His glorious appearing are church age Christians (Rev 19:14). They are not angels because Rev 19:8 reveals that the fine linen they are wearing is the righteousness of the saints (Revelation 19:8).

11. We are waiting for and looking for Jesus Christ to come and take us to heaven at the rapture. 12. ‘Wherefore comfort one another with these words’ (I Thessalonians 4:18).

13. ‘I also will keep thee out of (Greek: Τηρησω εк) the hour of temptation (the tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth’ (Revelation 3:10).

14. Jesus returns from a Wedding to the church in heaven after the 7 years Tribulation. Luke 12:36.

15. The Restrainer (the church) will be taken out of the way before the antichrist is revealed at the start of the 7 year tribulation. (II Thessalonians 2:6-8).

16. At the rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself in heaven. We do not receive Him on earth (John 14:3)

17. The gathering of the tribulation elect after the 7 years tribulation is done by angels, but the gathering of the church is done by Jesus Christ Himself. (Matthew 24:31).

18. The righteous and wicked both can’t be taken first. Matthew 13:30,49.

19. Question 20: If the rapture occurred at the second coming, why would the sheep and goats need to be separated immediately after the second coming? (Matthew 25:31-46).

20. Question 21: Who will populate the millennium?

If a post-tribulation rapture occurs at the glorious appearing and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Nobody will be left with mortal, reproducing bodies. 21. Question 22: The judgment of Israel is discussed in Ezekiel 20:38, ‘I will purge out from among you the rebels.’ If all the saved (including saved Jews) had previously been separated a few days earlier by the rapture, there would be no need to separate saved Jews and lost Jews after Jesus Christ’s coming.

22. 14 Contrasts between the Rapture and the Glorious Appearing prove they are different events.

23. The Tribulation is called the time of Jacob’s trouble not the church’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7). Question 25: How can the tribulation be called Jacob’s trouble for Israel and a blessed hope for the church, if both groups must go through it?

24. The focus of the Tribulation in the book of Revelation 7-18 on earth is on Israel, not the church:

25. The holy apostles and prophets who rejoice over Babylon’s destruction are in heaven. Rev 18:20

26. ‘The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night’ (I Thessalonians 5:2).

27. ‘They’, ‘them’ and ‘they’ refer to unbelievers left behind after the rapture in I Thessalonians 5:3.

28. The church will not be ‘overtaken by the day of the Lord’ (I Thessalonians 5:4).

29. ‘For God hath not appointed us to wrath (of the tribulation), but to obtain salvation (deliverance from the tribulation) by our Lord Jesus Christ.’ (I Thessalonians 5:9).

‘Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath (tribulation) to come.’ (I Thessalonians 1:10). 1500

30. It is the character of God to deliver His own people from the greatest times of trials.

31. The ‘falling away’ (646) in II Thessalonians 2:3 is ‘the departure’ of the church and of the Holy Spirit’s influence in the church, before the antichrist is revealed. ‘Falling away’ (646) in Greek is ‘η apostasia’ a noun meaning something separative, a departure such as divorce (647), apostasy.

32. Only the pre-tribulation rapture position does not confuse the church and Israel, the church and the elect in different ages, tribulations and the tribulation period, and the trumpet of God and the trumpets of angels.

33. There is a time interval between Christ coming for his saints at the rapture of the church (Rev 4:1) and Christ coming with His saints at the glorious return of Christ (Rev. 19:11-21; Zechariah 14:1-5). If the rapture and glorious appearing occurred simultaneously, there would be no time for the Judgment Seat of Christ (II Cor. 5:10), the presenting of the church to Jesus Christ (Ephesians 5:27), and the marriage of Christ to the church to take place. This time interval is stated in John 14:3. 34. Some people will escape the tribulation period. (Luke 21:34-36).

35. The church is not in Daniel’s 69 weeks period (Daniel 9:24-27), so it should not be in the70th week.

36. The structure of the book of Revelation proves the pre-tribulation rapture of the church.

37. At the rapture, believers go straight to the Father’s house (John 14:3), not straight back to earth as post-tribulationists think. ‘I will receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also.’

38. The two purposes of Daniel’s 70th week are to test earth dwellers (Revelation 3:10) and to prepare Israel for the King (Malachi 4:5,6). These have no relation to the church whatsoever.

39. If the church enters the tribulation of God’s wrath, judgment and punishment, then because of her union with Christ, Christ would be subject to the same wrath, judgment and punishment of God.

40. The Silence in the New Testament Epistles on how to endure the tribulation.

41. The Relation of the church to earthly governments.

42. The Destiny of the church is to heaven (John 14:2,3). The destiny of the saved in the tribulation is not to heaven, but to the earth in the millennium.

‘Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom.’ (Matthew 25:34).

43. The doctrine of imminence (at any moment coming) forbids the church entering the tribulation.

44. The 144,000 Israelite preachers in the tribulation are not part of the church. (Revelation 7:14).

45. The only organized church in the tribulation is the apostate Jezebel system (Revelation 2:22) and the harlot system (Rev. 17,18). The true church, is nowhere mentioned on earth in the tribulation.

46. The 7 promises to the true church to be removed before the tribulation.

47. The church is the object of Christ’s love, not the object of Christ’s wrath (Ephesians 5:25). Question 51: Why would a bridegroom want to punish his new bride? Would you do this?
 

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I think Revelation chapter 13 would keep most all of us from the wrath of God.    And kind of answer where all the souls under the throne spoken of in those white robes came from.

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I've come to the conclusion concerning eschatology that people can, and do, believe whatever seems good to them for a number of reasons.  It matters little and has no effect on what will actually transpire.  We are never told to figure it all out and compel others to agree with us, as if that would somehow validate what we think.

What matters is that we seek first His kingdom and righteousness, that we stand resolutely against the things of this world by walking in the truth.  Relaxing leads to sleeping, and we're cautioned against that.

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On 9/4/2017 at 10:56 PM, KiwiChristian said:

Proofs of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture (Errors of Post-Tribulation Rapture)

Wow!  The sheer volume of information is enough to prevent most people from responding.  I used to believe pretribulation rapture and even taught it.  I started seeing "proofs" that people use to convince others, very much like yours, and found way too many contradictions in the whole doctrine.

Some of your "proofs" have no Biblical reference- it's because there is nothing In the Bible to support it.  Those statements are not proof, they are merely assumed conclusions of misinterpreted verses based on a preconceived belief.

Most of the verses you've quoted are taken out of context...many to the point that you could actually assign any meaning to them.  Of those I have studied the context and found that many of them are not even about the rapture.  Some of them, if you honestly look at the context say exactly opposite of the out-of-context snippets.

Regarding  a few of those, I have found significant errors in translation.  (Intentional or not). Some words have literally been redefined by "scholars" to fit their beliefs and to reconcile the contradictions they created with poor interpretation.

A couple of your early statements claimed "proof" because the the Old Testament and Revelation don't mention the resurrection...  by that logic the rapture is not mentioned during the first resurrection in Rev20... does that mean it won't happen?

you have a lot of word manipulation in you list... too many to mention...

but I will point out that in #13 on your list, you translate based on your belief by not translating every word....

you wrote, "I will keep thee out of the hour of temptation...".  Out is one way to translate ek, but John used this word elsewhere in Revelation and it translates "because of."  To be consistent with John's use of that word, it makes more sense to maintain that...  

i know what you're thinking... "that wouldn't make sense to say "I will keep you because of...". That is because no pretrib rapture teacher will ever honestly translate the Greek word that precedes it- "keep"

the root word for that in Greek means to be a spectator... the form of that word that John used literally means "to watch over" or "to guard."

now if you really love the Word of God and not just doctrine, you will see that this verse actually promises, "I will guard you because of the hour of temptation...". 

I am surprised that you didn't include Jesus' comparison to the days of Noah... you know, the infamous (and out-of-context) "left behind"verse.  I find it sad that no one dare read how Jesus indentified who was "taken."  Read carefully, the taken were taken by the flood- God's wrath, not by any type of rapture.  In Genesis 6, it specifies who was "left."  It says that only Noah and his family were "left."  

That passage coincides with Rev 3: 10 because both offer the promise of protection from the wrath of God.  Yes, it does actually show that we will witness the wrath of God, just like Noah, but remain safe from falling under that wrath.

i understand you've been taught pretrib by well-meaning teachers, but honestly, most of the pretrib doctrine is based on speculation, not "proof."

none of the "proof verses" that I've spent years researching and analyzing give any credence to the doctrine.  

Shalom 

Edited by Guest
Additional clarity

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On 9/6/2017 at 1:47 AM, GusWilby said:

Wow!  The sheer volume of information is enough to prevent most people from responding.  I used to believe pretribulation rapture and even taught it.  I started seeing "proofs" that people use to convince others, very much like yours, and found way too many contradictions in the whole doctrine.

That is the intent by some posters elsewhere. It is a classic military strategy... overwhelm the opposition all at one time to break down any opposition. One has so many arguments to address that they cannot make an effective counter argument.  That leads to other massively lengthy counter posts and drives many to just move on to other topics.  Nothing gets resolved.

I still hold to a pre-trib position, but generally don't waste much time in trying to defend it. As you see too many contradictions to the position, I see too many contradictions to the others.  We each see different aspects and nuances in scripture and bring a difference perspective.  More than likely, the truth is not what any of us really expect.  

But I have changed some of my previous positions.  I used to hold to the immanency of the rapture position, that it could happen at any time,  but changed some time ago to a Feast day occurrence, specifically that of Yom Teruah / Feast of Trumpets.  And yes, that was long before the Revelation 12 sign discussions that are going on currently. Probably about 30 years ago I started moving into a Feast event type of idea.

Either way, what disappoints me is the vitriol and arrogance that gets spooned up by some in arguing these positions.  None of us has an exclusive and is the mouthpiece of God.  I am more than confident that all of us will have egg on our face in the final analysis, like Job, with all being wrong to one degree or another.   I don't see it here, yet, but many times these discussion degrade to people calling each other heretical, unscriptural, and whatever terms designed to shut down fruitful discussion.  Like in the current political climate where charges of Racism or Homophobia are used to shut down contrary views.  

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On 9/10/2017 at 1:54 AM, OldCoot said:

That is the intent by some posters elsewhere. It is a classic military strategy... overwhelm the opposition all at one time to break down any opposition. One has so many arguments to address that they cannot make an effective counter argument.  That leads to other massively lengthy counter posts and drives many to just move on to other topics.  Nothing gets resolved.

I still hold to a pre-trib position, but generally don't waste much time in trying to defend it. As you see too many contradictions to the position, I see too many contradictions to the others.  We each see different aspects and nuances in scripture and bring a difference perspective.  More than likely, the truth is not what any of us really expect.  

But I have changed some of my previous positions.  I used to hold to the immanency of the rapture position, that it could happen at any time,  but changed some time ago to a Feast day occurrence, specifically that of Yom Teruah / Feast of Trumpets.  And yes, that was long before the Revelation 12 sign discussions that are going on currently. Probably about 30 years ago I started moving into a Feast event type of idea.

Either way, what disappoints me is the vitriol and arrogance that gets spooned up by some in arguing these positions.  None of us has an exclusive and is the mouthpiece of God.  I am more than confident that all of us will have egg on our face in the final analysis, like Job, with all being wrong to one degree or another.   I don't see it here, yet, but many times these discussion degrade to people calling each other heretical, unscriptural, and whatever terms designed to shut down fruitful discussion.  Like in the current political climate where charges of Racism or Homophobia are used to shut down contrary views.  

So you hate in-depth studies of any subject? Sad.

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On 9/6/2017 at 6:47 PM, GusWilby said:

Wow!  The sheer volume of information is enough to prevent most people from responding.  I used to believe pretribulation rapture and even taught it.  I started seeing "proofs" that people use to convince others, very much like yours, and found way too many contradictions in the whole doctrine.

Some of your "proofs" have no Biblical reference- it's because there is nothing In the Bible to support it.  Those statements are not proof, they are merely assumed conclusions of misinterpreted verses based on a preconceived belief.

Most of the verses you've quoted are taken out of context...many to the point that you could actually assign any meaning to them.  Of those I have studied the context and found that many of them are not even about the rapture.  Some of them, if you honestly look at the context say exactly opposite of the out-of-context snippets.

Regarding  a few of those, I have found significant errors in translation.  (Intentional or not). Some words have literally been redefined by "scholars" to fit their beliefs and to reconcile the contradictions they created with poor interpretation.

A couple of your early statements claimed "proof" because the the Old Testament and Revelation don't mention the resurrection...  by that logic the rapture is not mentioned during the first resurrection in Rev20... does that mean it won't happen?

you have a lot of word manipulation in you list... too many to mention...

but I will point out that in #13 on your list, you translate based on your belief by not translating every word....

you wrote, "I will keep thee out of the hour of temptation...".  Out is one way to translate ek, but John used this word elsewhere in Revelation and it translates "because of."  To be consistent with John's use of that word, it makes more sense to maintain that...  

i know what you're thinking... "that wouldn't make sense to say "I will keep you because of...". That is because no pretrib rapture teacher will ever honestly translate the Greek word that precedes it- "keep"

the root word for that in Greek means to be a spectator... the form of that word that John used literally means "to watch over" or "to guard."

now if you really love the Word of God and not just doctrine, you will see that this verse actually promises, "I will guard you because of the hour of temptation...". 

I am surprised that you didn't include Jesus' comparison to the days of Noah... you know, the infamous (and out-of-context) "left behind"verse.  I find it sad that no one dare read how Jesus indentified who was "taken."  Read carefully, the taken were taken by the flood- God's wrath, not by any type of rapture.  In Genesis 6, it specifies who was "left."  It says that only Noah and his family were "left."  

That passage coincides with Rev 3: 10 because both offer the promise of protection from the wrath of God.  Yes, it does actually show that we will witness the wrath of God, just like Noah, but remain safe from falling under that wrath.

i understand you've been taught pretrib by well-meaning teachers, but honestly, most of the pretrib doctrine is based on speculation, not "proof."

none of the "proof verses" that I've spent years researching and analyzing give any credence to the doctrine.  

Shalom 

Thats fine. You can chose to accept or reject. To believe or not believe.

 

Nope, i have been taught pre-trib from the Bible

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On 9/5/2017 at 0:55 PM, Last Daze said:

I've come to the conclusion concerning eschatology that people can, and do, believe whatever seems good to them for a number of reasons.  It matters little and has no effect on what will actually transpire.  We are never told to figure it all out and compel others to agree with us, as if that would somehow validate what we think.

What matters is that we seek first His kingdom and righteousness, that we stand resolutely against the things of this world by walking in the truth.  Relaxing leads to sleeping, and we're cautioned against that.

Nice!  I've come to the conclusion that anyone who says they know and can prove pre/mid/post are wrong. Those who say they are not sure but have an opinion are closer to the truth. Maybe we are not to know how God makes all scripture references that are debated fit together until later. 

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People in New Testament have the same problem as people in Old Testament .

There is nowhere written in Old Testament that Jesus had to come two times ! O________________o !

Thats why Jews were thinking that after Jesus come , he will make Kingdom of God  , and that's why they were upset when Jesus said that he is going to leave , they knew that he has to rule on throne of David as promise given by God to Mary  through archangel  Gabriel .

 

The only thing that we can conclude from Old Testament about two comming of Christ is that it could not fit into one comming.

From one hand you have  Daniel 2:44 and Isaiah 53:9

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

 

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

And from other hand you have : Daniel 9:26 and Isaiah 53:8

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

 

WHAT

How can Messiah be both forever and be cut off ? How can in Isa 8 be cut off but in Isa 9 prolong ?

That's why we know there had to be two comming of Christ , first to be crucified and cut off , then second comming to be ruling over them all  on throne of David .

 

Same goes for rapture . We know that it's separated event because you can't fit all together and verses otherway would contradict themselfes. This is very simple .

Matthew 24

37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

Or the same of day of Lot , did Lot have 7 year tribulatin while angels were destroying Sodom and Gommorah or did he leave before that ?

Luke 17

28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

 

BUT

We know that nobody is able to buy and sell without mark of beast  during tribulation , and there is famine and wars and half of world die , there is no time for mariage , for shopping and for building and for prosperity when everything around you is dying .

 

Moreover

Hebrews 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

1 Thessalonians 5

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

BUT

Revelation 1:7

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

Let's not forget about Matthew 24:33

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

BUT

Matthew 24:44 contradicting it

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

How can you both know that he is at the door and that you don't think that he is comming ?

 

HOW can both only these who love him see him , and everybody see him . How can he come in time of peace and also in time of wars and in time of Armageddon.

One comming just does not find .

If you still reject rapture after all that , please give me your crown because i'm collecting rapture crowns .

 

2 Timothy 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Revelation 3:11

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 

So if you don't want then i would appricate if you let me have your rapture crown , i would gladly give it back to Jesus after Judgement Seat Christ  .

 

Matthew 25

26His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

 

Edited by Amazing Horse

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1 hour ago, KiwiChristian said:

So you hate in-depth studies of any subject? Sad.

I can deal with in depth studies in the right setting.  But piling on half the NT along with commentaries and turning a post on a forum thread into a college dissertation, that I have a problem with.  There is no way for one to effectively debate the issue since it heads in a myriad of directions with each needing addressed without getting into the same rut.  Not sure why folks can't start off a discussion in the forum thread with just a few points and then develop that further as the thread debate progresses.  It would draw in more people and be easier for those who want to learn an follow the topic do so.

GusWilby was right about the shear volume.

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      “Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.” (Daniel 7:23-26 KJV)
      I felt safe in calling the time of the fourth beast, vast and nondescript because we have a sharp clarity on the identity of the former three kingdoms. The last of the three was the Grecian Empire starting with Alexander and continuing through the Seleucid and Ptolemaic Empires. Although, we like to speculate that the fourth empire was the Roman Empire, which is not spelled out as the others were. The typical approach most use in determining what to call this empire, and therefore decide where the “beast” will come from is published in the book of Daniel, specifically:
      Daniel 9:26 KJV And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
      If you have followed me, long enough you understand that this has two fulfillments. One came under the rule of the Roman general Titus and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. However, there is another fulfillment coming in the last days.
      Titus, the Roman general, is considered by many to be “the prince that shall come.” However, if you do your research, you find that the evidence leans toward a Middle Eastern people, not Roman.
      Here is what the historian Josephus tells us in - The Wars of the Jews - Book 5 Chapter 13
      “.yet did another plague seize upon those that were thus preserved; for there was found among the Syrian deserters a certain person who was caught gathering pieces of gold out of the excrements of the Jews' bellies; for the deserters used to swallow such pieces of gold, as we told you before, when they came out, and for these did the seditious search them all; for there was a great quantity of gold in the city, insomuch that as much was now sold [in the Roman camp] for twelve Attic [drams], as was sold before for twenty-five. But when this contrivance was discovered in one instance, the fame of it filled their several camps that the deserters came to them full of gold. So the multitude of the Arabians, with the Syrians, cut up those that came as supplicants, and searched their bellies. Nor does it seem to me that any misery befell the Jews that was more terrible than this, since in one night's time about two thousand of these deserters were thus dissected."
      "Moreover, do the Arabians and Syrians now, first of all, begin to govern themselves as they please, and to indulge their appetites in a foreign war, and then, out of their barbarity in murdering men, and out of their hatred to the Jews, get it ascribed to the Romans?"
      In The Wars of the Jews book 6, chapter 4, Josephus tells us that many considered the temple a citadel for the Jews and an inspiration to continue rebelling against the Roman occupation. The fire had already been ordered against the gates of the temple, but Titus argued and verbally prevailed in regards to saving the temple.
      "But Titus said, that "although the Jews should get upon that holy house, and fight us thence, yet ought we not to revenge ourselves on things that are inanimate, instead of the men themselves;" and that he was not in any case for burning down so vast a work as that was, because this would be a mischief to the Romans themselves, as it would be an ornament to their government while it continued. So Fronto, and Alexander, and Cerealis grew bold upon that declaration, and agreed to the opinion of Titus. Then was this assembly dissolved, when Titus had given orders to the commanders that the rest of their forces should lie still; but that they should make use of such as were most courageous in this attack. So he commanded that the chosen men that were taken out of the cohorts should make their way through the ruins, and quench the fire."
      "Titus's retiring, the seditious lay still for a little while, and then attacked the Romans again, when those that guarded the holy house fought with those that quenched the fire that was burning the inner [court of the] temple; but these Romans put the Jews to flight, and proceeded as far as the holy house itself. At which time one of the soldiers, without staying for any orders, and without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking, and being hurried on by a certain divine fury, snatched somewhat out of the materials that were on fire, and being lifted up by another soldier, he set fire to a golden window, through which there was a passage to the rooms that were round about the holy house, on the north side of it. As the flames went upward, the Jews made a great clamor, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that holy house was perishing, for whose sake it was that they kept such a guard about it."
      Notice the reaction of Titus and ask yourself, does this look like someone bent on a complete destruction of the temple?
      "And now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire, as he was resting himself in his tent after the last battle; whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire. But they did not hear what he said, though he spake so loud, having their ears already dimmed by a greater noise another way; nor did they attend to the signal he made with his hand neither, as still some of them were distracted with fighting, and others with passion. But as for the legions that came running thither, neither any persuasions nor any threatening could restrain their violence, but each one's own passion was his commander at this time;” I perceive this statement to be the most telling of them all, and it was said by Titus, the Roman general:
      “Moreover, do the Arabians and Syrians now, first of all, begin to govern themselves as they please, and to indulge their appetites in a foreign war, and then, out of their barbarity in murdering men, and out of their hatred to the Jews, get it ascribed to the Romans?"
      Titus’ fear was that the barbarity of these men would be ascribed to the Romans, and that is exactly what we do when we declare the fourth empire to be a revived Roman Empire. Do you not see that ascribing Rome to the fourth empire also takes our eyes off what could be the true evil of the last days, Islam?
      In recent years, I held the position that “the saints” were only those that were martyred during the seven-year period of God’s wrath, that we so foolishly call the tribulation. I did the very thing I despise, spewing out concepts as fact without checking my Bible adequately. Paul used the term saints throughout his writings, and that tends to dispel the idea that the saints are exclusive to the years of wrath. Several examples are Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Ephesians 6:8, and numerable others.
      The terminology saint immediately takes me to Revelation where we see things like the woman, drunken with the blood of the saints (Revelation 17:6). It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the largest implication here is the martyred saints.
      However, there is something notable about John’s writings. He never used the term saints in speaking about the church outside of the Revelation; the majority of the time he calls them –little children and brethren. The feel is one of association and an understanding of the heart and character of God. Considering John’s beginnings in comparison to the end, it only makes sense that he would have God’s heart as he unfolds the Revelation, a time of nightmarish destruction and judgment. This time is not directed at “my little children.”
      I realize that I initiated this conversation with a portion of Daniel, not John, yet they talk about the same thing. This demonstrates the leading and direction of the Holy Spirit. We cannot discount that John’s recollection of Daniel’s prophecies may have played a role in John’s terminology.
      When you look at end times prophecy, there are only three people groups to consider: the Jews, the nations, and the church. While there can and will be some crossing over between the Jews and the church; at that point followers of Christ are considered a part of the church.
      Some will say that God gave up on the Jews. I do not think so. He has engraved their names and faces on the palms of his hands. You do not give up something that precious, especially after showing that level of commitment. God has a plan to drive the heart of the Jew, his chosen, back to himself. Unfortunately, there is much pain and suffering involved with that journey.
      In general, the Jews have rejected Jesus, the Messiah, and therefore subject themselves to the wrath that is coming.
      And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou had known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knew not the time of thy visitation. (Luke 19:41-44 KJV)
      The rejection of God by Israel is a common theme. An example of this is seen in the selection of Saul as king.
      And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. (1 Samuel 8:7 KJV)
      The nations could also be referred to as the Gentiles. Daniel referred to them as the people of the prince that shall come. Jesus, talking about the days of vengeance said,
      “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24 KJV)
      The church is the entire collection of believers comprising the body of Christ.
      And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fullness of him that fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV)
      Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:15-18 KJV)
      In general, the church is excluded from the wrath, or vengeance, that is coming upon the earth.
      But God proves his love for us by this (James Moffatt), in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Romans 5:8-9 KJV)
      “. you turned to God from idols, to serve a living and a real God and to wait for the coming of his Son from heaven — the Son whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who rescues us from the Wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 Moffatt NT)
      The church likes to hold itself in exclusivity, thinking that we are protected from tribulation. Look, Jesus guaranteed us three things:
      In this world, you will have tribulation. You will be hated by all men for my names’ sake. I will come again for you. Tribulation and Wrath/vengeance is two different things. Tribulation is non-stop and comes in many forms. It has nothing to do with your inability to buy a new propeller for the family ski boat. Get real, people in parts of the world where there is a heavy Muslim influence are being killed daily.
      If you lived under a constant threat of death, do you think you would feel as though you are being worn down, absolutely?
      Perhaps the Bible in Basic English translates it more appropriately. Daniel 7:25 (a) BBE “And he will say words against the Most High, attempting to put an end to the saints of the Most High;” It is clear that the intent is to kill the saints.
      And he shall speak words against the Most High, and he shall wear out the saints of the Most High. And he intends to change times and law. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time. (Daniel 7:25 LITV)
      Daniel 7:23 Declares what was to come, the fourth beast. If the fourth beast is Islam, then that was initiated over 600 years after Christ's death by Muhammad.
      Born approximately in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca,[9][10] Muhammad was orphaned at an early age; he was raised under the care of his paternal uncle Abu Talib. After his childhood, Muhammad primarily worked as a merchant.[11] Occasionally he would retreat to a cave in the mountains for several nights of seclusion and prayer; later, at age 40, he reported at this spot,[9][12] that he was visited by Gabriel and received his first revelation from God. Three years after this event Muhammad started preaching these revelations publicly, proclaiming that "God is One", that complete "surrender" (lit. islām) to Him is the only way (dīn)[n 3] acceptable to God, and that he was a prophet and messenger of God, similar to other Islamic prophets.[13][14][15] (From Wikipedia.)
      Islam has operated under various caliphates since the death of Muhammad in 632 AD (BCE). While all of them caused the Middle Eastern world grief, the largest most powerful were the Ottoman Caliphate.
      Ottoman Caliphate (1453/1517–1924)
      At the end of October 1922, the Allies invited the nationalist and Ottoman governments to a conference at Lausanne, Switzerland, but Atatürk was determined that the nationalist government should be Turkey's sole representative. In November 1922, the Grand National Assembly separated the offices of sultan and caliph and abolished the former. The assembly further stated that the Ottoman regime had ceased to be the government of Turkey when the Allies seized the capital in 1920, in effect abolishing the Ottoman Empire. Excerpt from, the Ottomans.org
      Is it possible that believers have been under attack for eighteen hundred years, without a doubt!
      Pay attention to another aspect of Islam.
      “The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Ismailia, Egypt by Hassan al-Banna in March 1928 as an Islamist religious, political, and social movement.[1][2] The group spread to other Muslim countries but has its largest, or one of its largest, organizations in Egypt, where for many years it has been the largest, best-organized, and most disciplined political opposition force,[3][4][5] despite a succession of government crackdowns in 1948, 1954, 1965 after plots, or alleged plots, of assassination and overthrow were uncovered. Following the 2011 Revolution the group was legalized,[5] and in April 2011 it launched a civic political party called the Freedom and Justice Party (Egypt) to contest elections.” (Wikipedia)
      Notice that this is two years after the Caliphate was disbanded.
      “Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoirs from that period, confirm.[7] Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[8]” (Wikipedia)
      The point to this is that Islam has been a destructive thorn in the flesh of those who do not comply for over 1800 years. Have they been a global threat throughout their history, no, but it took a global response to subdue them in 1922. I think we can agree that they are global now, and a greater threat than ever before. Aside from that, their prime directive is to kill the people of the book, which would be the Jew and the Christian. Have you noticed that they are making a serious dent in their goals?
      If you have watched the news the last couple of years, then you are aware of Christians that are being slaughtered in the mid-East and African nations. Perhaps you have also noticed that attacks against any group outside of Islam are fair game to them. Buddhists, Catholics, you name it. They even fight each other as though there is a competition to see who can follow the Qur’an most precisely. Unfortunately, for the outsider, while the Qur’an does have passages devoted to peace, they are superseded by newer passages that demand a strict and violent compliance.
      I think it is evident that there is affliction directed at Christians in certain parts of the world. Not to be left out of this violence against Christians is China and North Korea. I suppose the question is, how long until this level of violence comes to the Americas and afflicts us as well?
      Do not think that your non-belief will protect you. In general, Islam feels that any American is a Christ follower and worthy of death. Scripture tells me that you may have a chance to reject God and accept Allah as your God of choice, bowing before him in worship. Perhaps that will save your neck for the moment. I am aware that they cut a man’s head off anyway, possibly because they felt he was a coward with no backbone. I suspect it will not be as easy as that, and they may not have the time to await your decision. Of course, giving into this cuts you off from any hope of a relationship with God. In other words, there is no turning back from this decision.
      If you do not know this Jesus Christ, you can. Ask him into your life, and turn yourself over to him and accept his forgiveness. Allow him to run it. You do not have to work for your salvation, as it is free and paid for, you merely have to receive this life and salvation. You will experience a peace that you have never known before and a promise that he will come for you so that you can live with him in glory.
    • By Mary8
      The Feasts Fulfilled
      from 18 Feb 1991ml   I have made some changes.  See end for notes.

      Passover
         Jews in ancient Israel were required to go to Jerusalem to celebrate three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and in the autumn, Trumpets.
         Jesus fulfilled Passover which occurred on a full moon, the 14th day of the month Nisan. 
         Passover celebrates the Exodus from Egypt, which bespeaks salvation, escape, deliverance.
         Nisan 1 commences at the New Moon, as do all months on the Jewish calendar.  This month should mark the beginning of the year by Jews (rather than in September/October as they presently observe, the Civil Year.)
         Ex. 12:1-3:  "And the Lord spoke unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months:  it shall be the first month of the year to you.  Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb .... a lamb for an house."
         Jesus, the slain Lamb, is the only acceptable sacrifice, and believers trust in the Blood of the Lamb and are thereby saved.

      Unleavened Bread
         Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread which commenced the same day as Passover, on the 14th day of Nisan, and it was a seven day period of eating bread without leavening, which represents sin.  This feast was fulfilled before God only, as Jesus, the sinless one was lifted up before God.

      Firstfruits
         Jesus fulfilled Firstfruits by arising from the grave on the third day after His death.  The term Firstfruits refers to the first sheaves of barley which were ready to cut and Jesus's resurrection is the  fulfillment.  [Lev. 23:10.]  Many saved people were also resurrected from their graves and walked about the Jerusalem area at the time of Jesus's resurrection.  This first group of resurrected saints compares to the Rapture of believers as the world goes on around the event.
         I believe the Rapture of the Church is shown in the following Scriptures.  Jesus the grain, died, brought forth much fruit, and His Church is likened to a harvest of grain.  Jesus often likened Himself to a husbandman also, and here He is waiting for the precious fruit, the gathering of the harvest of souls.
         John 12:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
         James 5:7  Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
         The barley and wheat harvests in Israel are the early crops, with the earliest, the barley harvest completed in April, and the wheat completed in May.  This year of 2018, Passover commences Friday evening, March 30, and the counting of the days, Lag b'Omer, and Omer 1 starts on March 31.  Jesus arose on Firstfruits, "the morrow after the Sabbath," Sunday, and in 2018, Firstfruits is Sunday, April 1, through Saturday, April 7.   The Lag b'Omer ends on the 50th day, the morrow after the Sabbath, which is Pentecost.  Lev. 23.  Centuries ago, the Jewish calendar was changed, and Pentecost was shifted from always being on a Sunday 'the morrow after the Sabbath,' to Sivan 6.  This year of 2018, Sivan 6 happens to fall on Pentecost Sunday.  
         These days are for me a time of considering whether He may gather us during the period of the grain harvest.
          Lev. 23:10-11 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:  And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 
         The people were not to eat of the grain until it had been waved before the Lord.
         We see a picture of a time of rejoicing for Israel revealed in the story of old Naomi, and her restoration and joy in having a little boy to care for in her old age.  Ruth was married and taken into Boaz's house and lifted out of her time of gleaning in the field.  The son of Boaz, Obed, is born.  Others have noted that the book of Ruth is like the story of the Church and the Lord Jesus, and I think there is also this parallel to Israel revealed in Naomi's story, that Jesus is like Boaz, and when He and the Church are wed in heaven, a son will be born, the sealed servants in Israel. 
         Naomi will be brought back to joys she had thought were lost forever.  Just as Obed means "serving," so the end time, 144,000 believing Jews will be excellent servants of God  as we are told in Revelation.  Naomi means "pleasantness" but she said she had become bitterness.  Naomi's joy will return.   Other types of these victorious, believing Jews are seen in the three young men in the fiery furnace; in Elisha; and in Ephraim, the younger son of Joseph; and in Benjamin.

      Pentecost
         I believe the harvest of grain in springtime points to the season of the coming of the Lord for His believers.  The increase of the grain, the harvest reveals the way He has multiplied His believers like a sower who cultivates His field.
         Pentecost celebrates the giving of the law, and occurs after seven sabbaths, on a Sunday ("the morrow after the sabbath") according to Scripture, (making it another reason for us to worship on Sunday, the day Christ arose). 
         This fulfillment occurred when the Holy Spirit fell upon the gathered believers, as Jesus had promised.  He came with a noise of a mighty wind, and the separated 120 believers saw the flames of fire on one another's heads.  Believers spoke in other tongues, telling about Jesus to people of other nations.  Just as fire came on Sinai as the law was given, so fire came on the Church in Jerusalem.
         Observance on Sunday has been set aside by the Jews as explained above.
         Tradition says that Enoch was born on Pentecost and was also taken up by God on Pentecost.

      Feast of Trumpets
         Next is the Feast of Trumpets, a convocation of trumpets, and all Jews are to gather in Jerusalem.  Some think the convocation of trumpets will be fulfilled  by believers going up to heaven, being gathered to Him, and that Jesus, as High Priest, will blow the trumpet ['the trump of God'  I Thes.]  just as occurred at this feast in Israel near sundown on the evening before the new moon of Tishri 1 when the High Priest blew the shofar to gather the people, who were to immediately go to the temple.

      The Day of Atonement
         The Day of Atonement was a solemn fast day when the Jews were not to work.   For thousands of years, annually on this day the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled the blood of a sacrifice and interceded for the people.  A rope was tied around his ankle in order to pull him out if he died in there and the sacrifice was not accepted.  Jesus went into the Holy of Holies before the Lord and made an atonement for us by the sprinkling of His own Blood. 
         After the Rapture of the believers, there will be, I believe, an awed multitude of Jews  who see that something has happened and many will seek the Lord.  I think this time of shock is revealed in the first chapter of the Book of Joel, and that following chapters describe the tribulation and their comfort as they find God has not forsaken them.  (I have done a little study on Joel which indicates my reasons.)  Jesus has made our atonement and we won't ever experience the earthly fulfillment of that dreadful dark period. 
         I believe the Jews will experience great revival and miracles, and will believe and evangelize.  The tremendous outpouring of God's Spirit as related in Joel will fall upon them.  I believe "Ephraim" was born in 1948, as Israel became a nation.  During the terrible time of God's wrath outpoured upon the sinful earth, Israel will experience great things.  I believe this is borne out in books of the Old Testament and in the Book of Revelation.  Far from the Jews staying behind to experience only curses, I believe many will believe and please the Lord.  They will become a true witness, just as the three young men in the fiery furnace in Daniel, and the Lord will be manifested among them!  They will live through terrible times as they wait to see Him.  No wonder that He said blessed are those who believe without having to see.
         Believers have received the Blood of the slain Passover Lamb,  His offering of Unleavened Bread, and we have taken the symbols of His Blood in the wine and His body in the broken bread.  We have believed in Firstfruits, with Jesus raised from the dead,  like a grain of wheat buried, seemingly dead, and then sprouted in new life.  We have experienced Pentecost and are in a time of waiting and watching for Jesus to come.  We will never again experience a day of crying out and seeking an atonement because Jesus is our all in all.

      Tabernacles, Booths, Succot
         At this feast, all Jews were to go up to Jerusalem for the great gathering of the people.   They were told by the Lord to live out of doors for a week in little booths made of tree limbs and branches to remind them of the way God had protected them in their sojourn from Egypt.  Tabernacles commences on the full moon, the harvest moon.  Most of the crops are in, the grape harvest is ending in September. 
         The olive will be harvested during September, October, November.
         Revelation mentions the pressing of grapes was the time of His wrath.
         Are the 144,000 believing Jews like olives, pressed, yielding precious oil?  The two witnesses of the Book of Revelation are likened to two olive trees.  The olive harvest and pressing reminds us of the oil being used for the Menorah lamp. We know that the grapes of wrath reveal the wicked. 
         Tabernacles will be fulfilled by the Lord setting His Throne in Jerusalem so all the saved would come up to it, since it is on a mountain, Mount Olivet.
         Remaining Jews will experience the time of Jacob's trouble and consider the fulfillments of some of the feasts, and realize what the Lord has done.  The periods of time spoken of by the prophet Daniel will commence to be fulfilled.
         The Lord has a marvelous plan for the Jews.  He will mightily undertake for them, and just as Joseph dealt with his brothers and restored them to himself in a time of great famine, so the Lord will undertake for them in the dark days prophesied in the Scriptures, and they will be restored to Him with tears of joy. 
         We are soon coming to the sunset, it seems to me.  In the twilight after we believers are gone, the Day of the Lord will commence. 
         The sun was darkened when Jesus died, and the Jewish day commences at sunset, and with it begins the dark Day of the Lord.  The Day of Atonement will come and stretch on as the Jews seek God's salvation in that awful time. 
         The seven years start with the covenant of the evil one and Israel, but there could be some intervening time between the Rapture and the start of the Tribulation.  The time of Jacob's trouble will commence, the time of Daniel's seventieth "week."  Greater things than the Exodus will occur.  Afterward, Tabernacles, and then the light of the new day will come, the thousand year earthly reign of Christ here on earth.  And He shall reign forever and ever.
         Some say the Church will go through the tribulation, that God fulfilled the spring feasts in a mighty way on the earth, but that both believers and unbelievers will move together into the tribulation.
         Jesus will set up His kingdom on earth, and sit upon the throne of David, and rule the earth from Jerusalem.  Every year, all people of the earth will come to worship Him there or they will have no rain, according to Zechariah.  Jesus will reign one thousand years, and turn all over to His Father for eternity. 
         Blessed be the Name of the Lord!  

      *****
      Notes, 26 March 2018: 
         I want to say a bit more about a group referred to by various names: NAR New Apostolic Revolution, Latter Day Rain, MSOG or Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now, Dominion Theology, Identity.  They and others teach against pre-tribulation Rapture and that Jesus will not come until believers take over, have dominion over the world.   I've read that they believe that the office of Apostle can be conferred by the laying on of their hands, and that the Church has replaced Israel, Replacement Theology.  
         In 2018, Paul Smith of Calvary Chapel states that the "New Evangelical"  outlook, which I think is spreading among some churches, is that Jesus is gradually coming into hearts.   [So many are being taught to not take the Scripture literally as to Jesus' return.]
         I visited a Manifest Sons type of group with an acquaintance, in 1980s, for their large Feast of Tabernacles meetings and celebration, and it took me awhile, but I realized, 'What about the blessed hope?'  
         I take the Scriptures literally and decided the blessed hope is the hope of His coming for believers -- not death, not tribulation, not being hidden in Petra in the mountains southwest of Jerusalem. 
         I'm surprised, but these post-tribulation ideas are still growing and are found among many.  The Manifest Sons group has their main weekly meeting on Saturday, is allied with "CCC" Christ Community Churches.  Dominion Theology people preach that the Church must bring the earth under control before Jesus can come again.
         We will benefit from comparing Scriptures about 1) the grain harvest 2) the coming for the Bride 3) the householder on a journey who exhorts his servants to watch, and will learn much by looking again at the parables of Jesus.
         All unbelieving people left behind at the Rapture will live during the Time of Jacob's trouble.  God's plan will be fulfilled and many will be saved, but many will die, many will be executed, and suffering will be great.   One hundred forty four thousand Jewish men from the tribes will evangelize and many will believe.  After the departing of the Church, the Scripture will be fulfilled, Jeremiah 8:20  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.  
         The book of Joel chapter 1 speaks of an event that has occurred:  "The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?  Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation."  Verse 7: "He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."   Does this event point to the missing believers and realization by Jews that they had not recognized Messiah, or does it indicate there has been a military attack on Israel?
         Specifics for events in the time of tribulation can be found in Daniel and in the Book of Revelation.
         The evil man will arise and set up world government and eventually enter the Temple in Jerusalem, saying he is God, and the most awful times will occur.  Great numbers of new believers, who will refuse to take his mark, will be beheaded.  Eventually, as Jesus warned, some will flee Jerusalem and hide in the mountains to the southeast, and be sustained by the Lord. 
         Evil unbelieving people of the tribulation are compared to a harvest gathering of grapes, to be crushed.
         Believers during the Time of Jacob's trouble might be compared to the olive harvest, the last harvest of the agricultural year, and the pressing of the olives.
         After a specific number of days, Jesus will come with all His saints, on white horses and clothed in white linen, and He will split Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, east to west.  He will slay all His enemies upon the earth by the word from His mouth.  Some people will live through the tribulation and have children, in a time of peace, blessing, abundance.  Satan will be bound, Rev. 20.
         Rev. 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
         We look forward to His gathering of His grain harvest.  Rev. 22:20  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
         
    • By Steve Conley
      The Two Distinct Periods of Tribulation in The Last Half of the Seventieth Week
      Many fail to see that there are two distinct periods of tribulation in the second half of the seventieth week. The first is great tribulation upon the elect and Israel by the Beast and his followers. The second is tribulation from God upon the unbelieving Beast worshipers. The passages below emphasize this fact.
      2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
      2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
      2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
      2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
      2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
      When Jesus returns, the great tribulation, that time of trouble that Daniel spoke of (Dan 12:1) will be cut short (Matt 24:22). It is at that time that He will resurrect the dead in Christ (Dan 12:1-2, Rev 20:4-6, 1Cor 15:23, 51-52) and send the angels to catch up those who are alive and remain together with them, into the clouds (Rev 1:7), to be with Him (1Thes 4:15-17; Matt 24:31). It is after we are safely at the Father's house (John 14:3), before the throne of God (Rev 7:9-17) that His wrath begins to be poured out (Rev 8, 9, 16-19) suddenly (1Thes 5:2-3) on the very same day (Luke 17:26-30).
      It can be shown that there are two periods of tribulation which make up the second half of the week, the last 3½ years prior to Christ's literal, physical, millennial reign, upon the throne of David in Jerusalem.
      The explicit statements of the Scriptures below make it clear that there are two distinct unparalleled periods of tribulation in the second half of the week.
      When does the great tribulation begin? In the middle of the week
      Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
      Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
      Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
      What comes after the great tribulation? The cosmic sign spoken of by Joel which is the precursor to Christ's return.
      Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
      Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
      Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.                          
      Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
      Isa 13:6  Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
      Isa 13:7  Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
      Isa 13:8  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
      Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
      Isa 13:10  For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
      Isa 13:11  And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
      Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
      Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
      Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
      Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
      Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
      Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
      Isa 2:12  For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
      Isa 2:17  And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
      Isa 2:19  And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
      Isa 2:20  In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
      Isa 2:21  To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
       
      “If these passages describe the cosmic sign of Joel 2:31, and they do, then it is an indisputable
      fact that the day of the Lord cannot begin until the great tribulation is over.” Pastor Conley
       
      God's wrath, at the beginning of the day of the Lord, doesn't begin until the elect (all believers in Jesus Christ) are removed from the earth, after the great tribulation.
      God’s tribulation upon the unbelieving, Beast worshipers, who will persecute the church and Israel in the great tribulation, is referenced in Rev 3:10. The persecuted saints are said to be kept from the hour of temptation, that is, removed from the sphere of God’s, day of the Lord, wrath.
      Rev 3:10  Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
      When considering this verse, it is very important to understand the focus of the trial in context. It is that which will allow you to rightly understand what the notable hour of temptation is. Here, the focus is said to be upon the earth dwellers, “them that dwell upon the earth.” “The earth dwellers” is a technical term throughout the eschatological portions of the New Testament. The term is the combination of two Greek words (ghay and katoikeo). It always refers to those dwelling on the earth that worship the Beast and receive his mark (even in Rev 12:12). 
      Jesus says concerning the Day of the LORD:
      Luk 21:35  For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
      Note: Paul clearly teaches that the Day of the LORD will not overtake the watching believer as a thief.
      1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
      1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 
      So “them that dwell on the face of the whole earth” excludes the watching saints.
      John records concerning the two witnesses:
      Rev 11:7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. ...
      Rev 11:10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
      Note: The earth-dwellers here rejoice at the death of God’s two witnesses, which no believer would do.
      Again, John uses this technical term concerning those who are deceived by the false prophet:
      Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 
      Note: The earth-dwellers here are deceived by the False Prophet into worshiping the Beast and receiving his mark, but Jesus said that it was not possible for the “very elect” to be deceived (Matt. 24:24).
      Eleven verses in the book of Revelation contain this technical term for those who worship the beast and receive his mark.
      Recognizing that the focus of the temptation is upon the earth dwellers, we know that it refers to God's fierce wrath at the beginning of the day of the Lord and not Satan's wrath (Rev 12:12) upon the elect and Israel in the great tribulation.
      What verses show that the great tribulation is the persecution of the elect and Israel?
      The persecution of Israel can readily be seen in many passages. The most spoken of today is likely Jer. 30:7 where the term “Jacob’s trouble” appears. Dan 12:1 can also rightly be speaking of the believing remnant of Israel. Jesus’ instruction in the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24, 25) has a decidedly Jewish flavor which must include the Jews. However, we must remember it is only believers who listen to the Master’s voice. Rev 12, decidedly shows us that Satan persecutes both the Israelites and believers in Jesus Christ when he is cast from Heaven to the earth in the middle of the week.
      There are many references to Christians being persecuted in the great tribulation. Rev 6:9-11 describes those martyred souls under the alter in Heaven crying out for vengeance, that would have to wait, until the rest of their brethren and fellowservants should be killed as they were. The innumerable multitude in Rev 7:9-17 are said to have come out of great tribulation and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. They are saved by the blood of the Lamb just like we are. The saints are said to overcome the wrath of Satan “by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony and loved not their lives unto death” (Rev 12:11). When the dragon cannot get to the woman hid and fed in the wilderness he goes after "the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."(Rev 12:17) "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake." (Mat 24:9)  The deliverance is to be for those whose names are in the book (Dan 12:1). He will come the second time without sin unto salvation (Heb 9:28). Jesus said that those that endured to the end shall be saved, and the context was the great tribulation. Again and again, we see deliverance or salvation in a physical sense for those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (1Th 4:16-).
      All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.
       

    • By Omegaman 3.0
      Daily Reading 29 If you prefer, you can look up the following verses in your own Bible, of by whatever means and in whatever version you choose. Luke 21 Genesis 38 Psalm 29 Audio 4:18 Audio 4:34 Audio 1:16 The above addresses are linked to Bible Gateway. That is an easy way to read (or listen to) the Bible verses, and choose your version.  Personally, I prefer written, that way I can go at my own pace, on think about it, before moving on. Nothing wrong with doing either or both. The Bible says faith comes by hearing. See the picture below to get an idea of what to expect if you follow the above links.

      Note: The audio will not play the exact verses, it will play the whole chapters, in which the verses exist.
      Thank you Lord for making the your word so accessible for us in these times. Amen

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