Serving Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 905 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/14/1969 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 15/10/2017 at 6:53 PM, Diaste said: I have to reject this line of thought. Let's assume that 490 years is the time frame and that 483 years passed and the prophetic clock was stopped to allow for a gap between 69 weeks and the final 70th week. If that's true then there has been 2500+ years for the Jews to fulfill the requirements of Dan 9:24. I'm basing this on when Cyrus ruled in Babylon to the current age. God said there would be 70 sevens to allow the Jewish people time for, "... your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place..." but there has been over 300 sevens! That is more than righteous. In fact the Jews have all the time of the full 70 weeks to fulfill the hope of the Father for them. But it will take acceptance of the Lord Jesus to do this and they, as a nation reject the Messiah and plow forward to fulfill their need for national identity in the form of the Temple. If the Jewish people have not accepted Christ, when all the prophets of the OT did, after all these years, when are they going to? Here's the problem .. You're assuming that Israel HAD to fulfil those 6 requirements within those 70 weeks for the 70 weeks to come to a close, other words, your position is actually saying this : the 70 weeks can only come to a close WHEN Israel fulfils the 6 requirements regardless of how many weeks pass in real time, be it 70 weeks, 100 weeks, 150 weeks, or, 200 weeks etc etc because there is a gap inserted into the prophecy that will come into play some day (??) in the future WHEN Israel will accept Christ as their Messiah, and that event would signify the 70th week being fulfilled regardless if 300 weeks of real time takes place or not .. but this undermines the whole point of setting the 70 weeks deadline in the first place !! And God didn't give a deadline for nothing. You see, it would be a contradiction on God's behalf for declaring the 70 weeks in the first place if in fact it takes 100 or 200 or 300 + weeks to fulfil in real time !! as though God didn't realise that Israel would reject Messiah and fail the deadline. But He did know that Israel would fail, and Israel DID fail the 70 weeks deadline which is WHY their city and their sanctuary was destroyed and they were ended as a nation for over 2000 years. And since God already knew that Israel would fail, He took it upon Himself to fulfil those requirements HIMSELF, as a WITNESS against Israel's failure, and He did .. and since He fulfilled them, then they (the 70 weeks) are FULFILLED, meaning that there is now no way left for Israel to fulfil what God instead had to fulfil Himself .. see? And if the 70 weeks are not yet over, then NONE OF US could know of Christ UNTIL those 70 weeks are completed BY Israel .. because Christ would not be anointed UNTIL Israel (as a nation) anointed Him as per the 6th requirement .. see? So then it becomes this, WHY did God fulfil this when ISRAEL were meant to? And since God fulfilled this, doesn't it mean that Israel FAILED to fulfil this? And the answer is YES, of course Israel FAILED to fulfil this, otherwise God would not have had to anoint Messiah HIMSELF. The whole reason WE the believing Gentiles are a priesthood, a peculiar nation, is precisely because of Israel's failure to fulfil the 70 weeks, which is WHAT Christ meant by this : Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Seeing that the kingdom of God is taken from Israel, and God Himself arranged for those requirements to be fulfilled, and did fulfil them, then these have become obsolete : your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy ..they become obsolete because God was forced to fulfil them Himself because of Israel's failure, which He did, and as a consequence the priesthood was given to ANOTHER NATION because God had to fulfil it in Israel's place .. had Israel NOT failed to fulfil the 70 weeks, then ISRAEL herself would have been that NATION of priests instead, but they failed the 70th week deadline hence the Gentiles taking their place as His priests. You can NOT give the priesthood to another nation if the 70 weeks were still running, but only if the 70 weeks are COMPLETE can you then give the priesthood to another. You see? Saying that the 70th week is unfulfilled causes more contradictions, and not just prophetic ones, but basic doctrinal ones too !! But these contradictions don't exist for those who say that the 70 weeks are COMPLETE .. and they need no special explaining or reshuffling/reinterpreting of the prophecies/doctrines to make way for them either. And this : Quote If the Jewish people have not accepted Christ, when all the prophets of the OT did, after all these years, when are they going to? The millennium. Otherwise, what is the point of even having the millennium in the first place, God could just wrap it all up at the 2nd coming and that would be that, but He doesn't, so the millennium serves a purpose, and that purpose deals with Israel learning of their Messiah's doctrine and KEEPING it, it is where ALL OF ISRAEL become saved, during the millennium WHEN they accept Him as their Messiah NATIONALLY. Thanks Diaste. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) "If the Jewish people have not accepted Christ, when all the prophets of the OT did, after all these years, when are they going to?" The 70 weeks of years are 490 years 483 of these years passed at the Lord's cutting off in the first century 7 years [the 70 week] are still pending as we speak His millennial kingdom on the earth will then come for 1000 years Edited October 17, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,625 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Serving said: Here's the problem .. You're assuming that Israel HAD to fulfil those 6 requirements within those 70 weeks for the 70 weeks to come to a close, other words, your position is actually saying this : the 70 weeks can only come to a close WHEN Israel fulfils the 6 requirements regardless of how many weeks pass in real time, be it 70 weeks, 100 weeks, 150 weeks, or, 200 weeks etc etc because there is a gap inserted into the prophecy that will come into play some day (??) in the future WHEN Israel will accept Christ as their Messiah, and that event would signify the 70th week being fulfilled regardless if 300 weeks of real time takes place or not .. but this undermines the whole point of setting the 70 weeks deadline in the first place !! And God didn't give a deadline for nothing. You see, it would be a contradiction on God's behalf for declaring the 70 weeks in the first place if in fact it takes 100 or 200 or 300 + weeks to fulfil in real time !! as though God didn't realise that Israel would reject Messiah and fail the deadline. But He did know that Israel would fail, and Israel DID fail the 70 weeks deadline which is WHY their city and their sanctuary was destroyed and they were ended as a nation for over 2000 years. And since God already knew that Israel would fail, He took it upon Himself to fulfil those requirements HIMSELF, as a WITNESS against Israel's failure, and He did .. and since He fulfilled them, then they (the 70 weeks) are FULFILLED, meaning that there is now no way left for Israel to fulfil what God instead had to fulfil Himself .. see? And if the 70 weeks are not yet over, then NONE OF US could know of Christ UNTIL those 70 weeks are completed BY Israel .. because Christ would not be anointed UNTIL Israel (as a nation) anointed Him as per the 6th requirement .. see? So then it becomes this, WHY did God fulfil this when ISRAEL were meant to? And since God fulfilled this, doesn't it mean that Israel FAILED to fulfil this? And the answer is YES, of course Israel FAILED to fulfil this, otherwise God would not have had to anoint Messiah HIMSELF. The whole reason WE the believing Gentiles are a priesthood, a peculiar nation, is precisely because of Israel's failure to fulfil the 70 weeks, which is WHAT Christ meant by this : Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Seeing that the kingdom of God is taken from Israel, and God Himself arranged for those requirements to be fulfilled, and did fulfil them, then these have become obsolete : your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy ..they become obsolete because God was forced to fulfil them Himself because of Israel's failure, which He did, and as a consequence the priesthood was given to ANOTHER NATION because God had to fulfil it in Israel's place .. had Israel NOT failed to fulfil the 70 weeks, then ISRAEL herself would have been that NATION of priests instead, but they failed the 70th week deadline hence the Gentiles taking their place as His priests. You can NOT give the priesthood to another nation if the 70 weeks were still running, but only if the 70 weeks are COMPLETE can you then give the priesthood to another. You see? Saying that the 70th week is unfulfilled causes more contradictions, and not just prophetic ones, but basic doctrinal ones too !! But these contradictions don't exist for those who say that the 70 weeks are COMPLETE .. and they need no special explaining or reshuffling/reinterpreting of the prophecies/doctrines to make way for them either. And this : The millennium. Otherwise, what is the point of even having the millennium in the first place, God could just wrap it all up at the 2nd coming and that would be that, but He doesn't, so the millennium serves a purpose, and that purpose deals with Israel learning of their Messiah's doctrine and KEEPING it, it is where ALL OF ISRAEL become saved, during the millennium WHEN they accept Him as their Messiah NATIONALLY. Thanks Diaste. I don't hold to replacement theology. It's nothing new and it's wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,625 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: "If the Jewish people have not accepted Christ, when all the prophets of the OT did, after all these years, when are they going to?" The 70 weeks of years are 490 years 483 of these years passed at the Lord's cutting off in the first century 7 years [the 70 week] are still pending as we speak His millennial kingdom on the earth will then come for 1000 years I was trying to make a point. I know the major points of the last week of the age of man's self governing. I think the point I was making was missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2017 What was your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2017 Elijah (The 'Lead' Witness) will give accurate information about what is going to happen in the years leading up to Jesus return and similar to how Daniel knew when Jesus' first coming would be, Elijah will know when Jesus' second coming will happen too. Even though most Christians will reject all this information, when the seven year tribulation begins exactly how and when Elijah predicts, then Christians will begin to take notice and in the last 1260 days of their witness, just before Christs return, they'll begin to perform all the miraculous signs as spoken of in Revelation which will become the focus of the Worlds attention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,625 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: What was your point? That Serving had some idea about the 70 weeks already being fulfilled and no gap, and Jewish repentance, unfulfilled requirements, etc. He said God would have to be unrighteous to hang another week over the head of the Jewish people, etc, etc... I pointed out that the ensuing gap of some 2000 years allowed plenty of time for national repentance and that this is the act of a patient, loving, righteous God. Then said that if the Jews would not do what the Lord wanted in 69 weeks plus 2000 years, when were they going to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted October 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Israel will experience the 70th week still pending [Revelation 6:12-17; 7:1-8; 14:1-7] 1/3 of the nation will turn to the Lord and the other 2/3s will be killed and lost forever [Zechariah 13:8-9] Edited October 17, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Sue McArthur Posted October 18, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2017 Who Jesus Christ is and how you are able to come into the Father's presence and receive the new name on the white stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted October 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 Hi Serving Your post was really well explained. Made complete sense. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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