Does being in Heaven mean you're truly a good person?

[Chrysala1891]

Now most people would agree that the standard of being in Heaven is to live right; to live the best life you can without deliberately breaking any laws, be it moral or legal, divine or worldly. Given that we as humans have free will, we can easily choose not to commit crimes or to sin. I think it's all just a matter of how much regard you have for morality and ethicality.

 

But according to a number of Christians, Jeffrey Dahmer aka "The Milwaukee Killer", for example, repented wholehearted for his sins before he died in prison and is therefore going to Heaven:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/september/34.125.html

................................after committing a myriad of atrocities such as killing, necrophiliac relations and Cannibalism:

https://www.thoughtco.com/profile-of-serial-killer-jeffrey-dahmer-973116

 

David Berkowitz aka, the "Son of Sam", another notorious murderer who is apparently going to Heaven:

https://www.biography.com/people/david-berkowitz-9209372

 

And last but certainly not least, Westley Allan Dodd, who is the child pedophile and killer of many young boys:

http://www.epm.org/resources/1993/Feb/1/westley-allen-dodds-eternity/

 

 

I'm sorry, but the whole prospect of murderers spending eternity in Heaven with their victims is sickening to me. I can see victims deserving of Heaven, but not murderers. Murderers deserve Hell for their deeds. Christians agree that they're deserving of Hell and if they were shown NO mercy whatsoever, it would be perfectly just and no wrong done on God's part. But somehow, they're all going to Heaven. If people end up in Heaven, they must deserve it and they must be good enough to get into Heaven. Is there something about repentance that makes one all of a sudden righteous that it outshines one's previous iniquities? Does it make one a truly good person by taking responsibility and repenting and being in Heaven? 

Aren't Christians known for living a crimeless life? Isn't the requirement for Heaven to live a crimeless life? 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Chrysandra

[Justin Adams]

Well, it does seem odd that those guys who did terrible things might be in heaven. I agree.

However, since we are all by our nature fallen sinners, no one has a free pass to Heaven regardless of their good deeds.

Yeshua (Jesus) is the ONLY one that can intercede for us and grant us pardon for our sins and allow us to be saved and therefore be heaven bound. No good works will ever grant salvation or forgiveness.

It is by God's mercy thru Jesus that we have been forgiven. There is no other way. John 3:16

[other one]

To answer your question in the subject is no. T he people in heaven are people who have believed and trusted in Jesus and what they might have done prior to that decision won't matter.

It is not our righteousness that qualifies us it's Jesus's.  Actually none of us deserve heaven.

 

[Deborah_]

All sins are punished in full. If a murderer is granted eternal life, it is because their punishment has been taken by Jesus. Same for all of us.

I don't think we can really imagine what it will be like in the future age, when the sins of the past have been wiped out and can no longer haunt us - whether they are sins that we committed or that were committed against us. God forgets them (Isaiah 43:25); maybe in His presence we will forget them too.

[Sower]

 

To answer your question, no.    Being in heaven means you are forgiven. All your sin penalty has been paid.

There was a man years ago, who saw this woman and decided he wanted her, took her, and then killed her husband. He will be with you in heaven. You will be able to meet him. God said he was a man after His own heart. Look for him, his name was David. A king. Rom_9:15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.           Jesus paid it all............

[GandalfTheWise]

On 9/15/2017 at 7:47 AM, Chrysandra said:

Now most people would agree that the standard of being in Heaven is to live right; to live the best life you can without deliberately breaking any laws, be it moral or legal, divine or worldly. Given that we as humans have free will, we can easily choose not to commit crimes or to sin. I think it's all just a matter of how much regard you have for morality and ethicality.

 

But according to a number of Christians, Jeffrey Dahmer aka "The Milwaukee Killer", for example, repented wholehearted for his sins before he died in prison and is therefore going to Heaven:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/september/34.125.html

................................after committing a myriad of atrocities such as killing, necrophiliac relations and Cannibalism:

https://www.thoughtco.com/profile-of-serial-killer-jeffrey-dahmer-973116

 

David Berkowitz aka, the "Son of Sam", another notorious murderer who is apparently going to Heaven:

https://www.biography.com/people/david-berkowitz-9209372

 

And last but certainly not least, Westley Allan Dodd, who is the child pedophile and killer of many young boys:

http://www.epm.org/resources/1993/Feb/1/westley-allen-dodds-eternity/

 

 

I'm sorry, but the whole prospect of murderers spending eternity in Heaven with their victims is sickening to me. I can see victims deserving of Heaven, but not murderers. Murderers deserve Hell for their deeds. Christians agree that they're deserving of Hell and if they were shown NO mercy whatsoever, it would be perfectly just and no wrong done on God's part. But somehow, they're all going to Heaven. If people end up in Heaven, they must deserve it and they must be good enough to get into Heaven. Is there something about repentance that makes one all of a sudden righteous that it outshines one's previous iniquities? Does it make one a truly good person by taking responsibility and repenting and being in Heaven? 

Aren't Christians known for living a crimeless life? Isn't the requirement for Heaven to live a crimeless life? 

Many times Christianity is misrepresented as being a system of rules and laws; of punishment and reward; and of doing the best we can.  Christianity is not about that, but it is about revolution and transformation.

 We see those things that we despise and abhor in the world such murder, genocide, rape, disease, natural disasters, and things that seem unfair and unjust.  We see those things that we admire and like about the world, friendship, love, compassion, and the beauty of nature.  We think that the world would be a better place if we got rid of the bad and kept only the good.  Indeed, God is going to get rid of all of the evil and harmful things.  He's going to take all of those things and chuck them onto the garbage heap and burn them away forever.  Heaven will indeed be a place where all of those harmful and hurtful things will be gone.

The issue is that each one of us is contaminated with this evil.  It is not about being mostly uncontaminated.  It is that we are all carriers of it and have been touched by it and have touched others with it.  Adam as patient zero contaminated us all.  Some of us have a lot more symptoms than others, but we all have it.  We have all hurt people (in spite of our best efforts, we have hurt people).  We all have addictions and compulsions and urges we cannot control.  We have all been wounded by it, and we all carry it and spread it.  Heaven being a good place is not about trying to triage and quarantine people into those with fewer symptoms and those with more symptoms, it is about being completely healthy and free of it.  Having fewer symptoms than someone else or taking a few aspirin to reduce the fever does not make us disease free.  The reality is that each of us would be a source of contamination that cannot be allowed in.

Christianity is about being transformed and changed from within.  The purpose of Jesus' work was not just forgiveness, but transformation.  The revolutionary thing about Christianity is that God has decided to live inside of us.  It's not about being given a free pass to Heaven as we are; it is about being changed into a person that is becoming a good person and fit into Heaven.  The Bible says that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self-control, etc.  Being patient does not mean taking anger management classes, learning to count to 10 before speaking, or learning how to bottle up our anger; being patient means that we do not get angry.  This is not something we teach ourselves to do; this is something that happens as God changes us from inside.  The message of Christianity is that as we walk with God, we will be transformed and changed into the unique person He intends for us to be, and be able to live life to the fullest in a grand adventure of walking with Him.

So, how do mass-murderers, pedophiles, rapists, etc. fit into this?   The issue is forgiveness.  Forgiveness does NOT mean that nothing happened.  Indeed, something happened.  Sometimes something unspeakable and unfathomable happened.  Forgiveness does NOT mean those things are right or will ever be right.  Forgiveness means that we let it go and don't let it have a hold on us.  Forgiveness means that I have decided that what happened will not continue to affect my emotions and thoughts.  I will not dwell on it at night when I cannot sleep.  I will not have this bottled up rage that it isn't fair.  I will let it go so that the original event(s) and act(s) no long have their claws buried deep within my soul continuing to poison me.   (As a practical matter, it doesn't mean I have to  trust that person or reconcile with them.  In some cases, they haven't changed, I do not have to endanger myself or others.)  The key to us forgiving people is that we do not let past events continue to be an infected wound that slowly poisons us emotionally.  We treat it, let it heal, and are left with a scar that is a memento of something that we survived and moved on from.  Lack of forgiveness is an infected wound that slowly poisons us (and others around us).  Forgiveness is a way of treating that wound so it can heal over.  If there is a particular person or group that we see and react to, our blood boils, we become sick to our stomach, we relive the events, we want justice and revenge, we want something to happen to them, it means that we are bound with chains of bitterness and anger.  No amount of justice or revenge or anything will heal us or free us.  It may give momentary satisfaction to see them suffer.  However, only forgiveness will bring the healing we need. 

When Jesus was on the cross, His words were "Father forgive them".  When Stephen was being stoned, his dying words were  “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”  Forgiveness is not about declaring what someone did as being okay.  It is about letting it go.   When God forgives us and others, He is letting go everything we've done that has hurt others.  Compared to Hitler or Stalin, I'm a saint.  But I know I've done things to people that has caused them pain and hurt (and I'm sure there are many more I don't know about).  I know I'm part of groups that have hurt people.  We are all guilty of this.  It is not the question of whether we are more or less guilty of being part of the problem with the world, it is the issue that we all contribute to the problems in the world. 

Christianity is about God's plan and means to transform all of us so that we are no longer part of the problem but part of the solution.   It doesn't mean we become perfect overnight.  It means that over time He transforms us so that the unique person we were created to be can start to be the person He means for us to be in ever increasing freedom.  It means that we are being changed into people suitable for Heaven who can enjoy and contribute to it being a good place.  Some of us have a head start and are on this journey most of our lives;  others start at the last possible moment.

[missmuffet]

Heaven is a free gift. John 3:16. If a person is a genuine believer in Jesus Christ and has repented of their sins they will go to heaven. Christ died on the Cross and shed His blood for our past and future sins.God loves us so much that He sent his only Son to die on the cross for us. If a  person who has committed the worst crimes ever genuinely asks Jesus Christ into their life and repents of their sins they will go to heaven. You can not fool God since He knows the heart.Jesus Christ has a tremendous amount of mercy and grace. More than we as humans can imagine.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
(Mat 5:21-22)
 

Plus our sins in effect murdered the Son of God.

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed'— for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.
(Act 4:26-28)
 

Amen.  the true grave serious followers of Christ who are filled with compassion as well, KNOW and understand something very clear.

Honestly if I go and have the law read to me.   How much was I guilty of it.  What did GOD offer me instead. 

EXACTLY.    I was guilty of about almost everything written in that law.  and not once or twice , on some things numbers too high to remember.

While I was , I kid not, heading out the door to commit yet another sin, ADULTERY with another mans wife

GRACE appeared.    YES.    and Grace CHANGED my heart , gave me a new one .      IF I was guilty of a mountain of sin against both GOD and mankind

YET FORGIVEN, based on what CHRIST DID and then LED BY GRACE , A GIFT to CHRIST,    HOW on earth does the love of GOD dwell in me

if I desire ANYONE to go to hell.  I cant see it .   I just cannot see that it would be in me at all.  AND if the love of GOD is not shed on my heart

THEN I DO NOT KNOW HIM , I am still lost in darkness.   See I cant even see HOW the love of GOD can even dwell in ME, if I cant forgive one who does me wrong

for their one grain of sand sin against me, when I was forgiven for a mountain of those grains of sin sand.

YET, here is the kicker most in CHURCHES even cannot see.  I AM the hater , because I don't accept SIN , I warn against it .

YET my desire IS LIFE FOR MY ENEMIES, while many accept sins and yet DESIRE DEATH for their enemies. WHO IS the real hater.  

exactly.    An example is I know the act of man with man or woman with woman is an ABOMINATION

so I warn against it.  WHY............cause I don't want to see anyone in hell.  And if one continues in sin their end will be death.

I sure hope some are paying attention.     YOU be blessed yowm.   I know you know this.  But its always good for us all to be reminded , exhorted daily.

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:47 AM, Chrysandra said:

Now most people would agree that the standard of being in Heaven is to live right; to live the best life you can without deliberately breaking any laws, be it moral or legal, divine or worldly. Given that we as humans have free will, we can easily choose not to commit crimes or to sin. I think it's all just a matter of how much regard you have for morality and ethicality.

 

But according to a number of Christians, Jeffrey Dahmer aka "The Milwaukee Killer", for example, repented wholehearted for his sins before he died in prison and is therefore going to Heaven:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/september/34.125.html

................................after committing a myriad of atrocities such as killing, necrophiliac relations and Cannibalism:

https://www.thoughtco.com/profile-of-serial-killer-jeffrey-dahmer-973116

 

David Berkowitz aka, the "Son of Sam", another notorious murderer who is apparently going to Heaven:

https://www.biography.com/people/david-berkowitz-9209372

 

And last but certainly not least, Westley Allan Dodd, who is the child pedophile and killer of many young boys:

http://www.epm.org/resources/1993/Feb/1/westley-allen-dodds-eternity/

 

 

I'm sorry, but the whole prospect of murderers spending eternity in Heaven with their victims is sickening to me. I can see victims deserving of Heaven, but not murderers. Murderers deserve Hell for their deeds. Christians agree that they're deserving of Hell and if they were shown NO mercy whatsoever, it would be perfectly just and no wrong done on God's part. But somehow, they're all going to Heaven. If people end up in Heaven, they must deserve it and they must be good enough to get into Heaven. Is there something about repentance that makes one all of a sudden righteous that it outshines one's previous iniquities? Does it make one a truly good person by taking responsibility and repenting and being in Heaven? 

Aren't Christians known for living a crimeless life? Isn't the requirement for Heaven to live a crimeless life? 

Since all have sinned and none can earn heaven.   No one gets their by earning it.   BUT IN CHRIST we simply LIVE RIGHTEOUS.   major difference.