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Principles of Interpretation - Hermeneutics


Marilyn C

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Guest shiloh357
1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

Dear bro in your haste to `prove` me wrong you forgot the basics.

Adam - was given dominion of the earth by God, but he forfeited it when he disobeyed God.

Christ, the second Adam - never gave dominion of the earth away and thus He inherits the earth and all that is in it. 

Thus Christ fulfils what Adam was not able to do - have dominion over the earth. So Adam is a type of Christ in receiving dominion of the earth, but it was Christ who fulfilled the responsibility of dominion.  

Marilyn.  

No, you simply don't understand the nature of what "fulfilment" means in terms of typology.   Jesus is not the fulfillment of anything concerning Adam.  

Jesus did not fulfill what Adam was not able to do.    Jesus succeeded where Adam failed.   Jesus was the polar opposite of everything Adam was.  That is not "fulfillment." 

Jesus was God.  Jesus always had dominion over the earth.  There was no time that Jesus didn't have dominion over creation.   You are trying to manufacture "fulfillments" and types that don't occur in Scripture.  The Scripture doesn't claim that Adam was a type of Christ.   Being the second Adam doesnt' correspond to typology.

Sorry, but you out of your league, here.  You don't understand hermeneutics or the function of typology, except only what is exists in your imagination.

If this is the garbage they taught you in your "bible college,"  you learned under some pretty incompetent leadership.

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

And again Shiloh, another example -

Adam - was given life, but because of sin he passed on death.

Christ the second Adam - was given life, but chose to die and thus became a `life-giving spirit.` 

Thus we see that Adam is a type of Christ as a life giver to those who come after him, however it is Christ who surpasses that earthly `life,` and gives `eternal life.`

regards, Marilyn. 

Jesus was never "given" life, as there was never a time that Jesus never existed.   Jesus gave Adam life.   Adam was not a type of any kind of life giver, as Adam never gave life to anyone.

Again, this is just sloppy nonsense.  You are making up stuff that isn't even in the Bible and despite what the title of the thread implies, none of what you are putting forth is hermeneutics or biblical interpretation.  It is just you reading a lot of stuff into the Bible that isn't there.

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6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, you simply don't understand the nature of what "fulfilment" means in terms of typology.   Jesus is not the fulfillment of anything concerning Adam.  

Jesus did not fulfill what Adam was not able to do.    Jesus succeeded where Adam failed.   Jesus was the polar opposite of everything Adam was.  That is not "fulfillment." 

Jesus was God.  Jesus always had dominion over the earth.  There was no time that Jesus didn't have dominion over creation.   You are trying to manufacture "fulfillments" and types that don't occur in Scripture.  The Scripture doesn't claim that Adam was a type of Christ.   Being the second Adam doesnt' correspond to typology.

 

Hi Shiloh,

`Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of ADAM, WHO IS A TYPE OF HIM WHO WAS TO COME.` (Rom. 5: 14)

Marilyn.

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6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 

Jesus was never "given" life, as there was never a time that Jesus never existed.   Jesus gave Adam life.   Adam was not a type of any kind of life giver, as Adam never gave life to anyone.

Again, this is just sloppy nonsense.  You are making up stuff that isn't even in the Bible and despite what the title of the thread implies, none of what you are putting forth is hermeneutics or biblical interpretation.  It is just you reading a lot of stuff into the Bible that isn't there.

Hi Shiloh,

The Lord as part of the Godhead, always owned the world as Ps. 24 tells us.

`The earth is the Lord`s and all the fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.....` (Ps. 24: 1)

Then we know that God gave mankind the responsibility to have dominion over the earth, (under God). We also know that Adam gave that away. So it was that the Lord becoming a man, had legal right to have dominion over the earth. Remember the parable that Jesus told concerning the wicked vinedressers.

`But when the vine-dressers saw the son, they said among themselves, "This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance." (Matt. 21: 38)

God the Father also says -

`The Lord has said to me, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession.` (Ps. 2: 7 & 8)

The Son, had to become a man to redeem mankind, but also to take legal possession for responsibility of dominion of the earth, as man, under God the Father.

Marilyn.

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6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 

Sorry, but you out of your league, here.  You don't understand hermeneutics or the function of typology, except only what is exists in your imagination.

If this is the garbage they taught you in your "bible college,"  you learned under some pretty incompetent leadership.

Again, this is just sloppy nonsense.  You are making up stuff that isn't even in the Bible and despite what the title of the thread implies, none of what you are putting forth is hermeneutics or biblical interpretation.  It is just you reading a lot of stuff into the Bible that isn't there.

Shiloh,

You are again continuing to try and put me down, which only shows that you do not have anything to support your position.

Marilyn.

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Guest shiloh357
2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

`Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of ADAM, WHO IS A TYPE OF HIM WHO WAS TO COME.` (Rom. 5: 14)

Marilyn.

Yes, but he is NOT a type of Christ in the way YOU are trying to present Him.  The Bible isn't saying that Adam is type of Christ the same manner in which  it presents other types like.   The point is that while their is parallelism between Adam and Jesus, the parallelism is contrastive.   In typology, the focus is always on similarities and the type is fulfilled by the anti-Type.  Paul isn't using Adam as a type of Christ except to point out the differences.   Nothing about Adam is being "fulfilled"  by Jesus.  Everything about Adam and Jesus in Romans 5:12-21 is showing just how opposite they are.

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

The Lord as part of the Godhead, always owned the world as Ps. 24 tells us.

`The earth is the Lord`s and all the fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.....` (Ps. 24: 1)

Then we know that God gave mankind the responsibility to have dominion over the earth, (under God). We also know that Adam gave that away. So it was that the Lord becoming a man, had legal right to have dominion over the earth. Remember the parable that Jesus told concerning the wicked vinedressers.

`But when the vine-dressers saw the son, they said among themselves, "This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance." (Matt. 21: 38)

God the Father also says -

`The Lord has said to me, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession.` (Ps. 2: 7 & 8)

 

Marilyn.

No, no.   Adam was given dominion over nature.  Adam's dominion over nature was extended to all mankind.    Jesus was given LORDSHIP over the nations of the whole world.   Jesus already owned the natural world.

God never lost legal possession of the earth. 

Quote

The Son, had to become a man to redeem mankind, but also to take legal possession for responsibility of dominion of the earth, as man, under God the Father.

What Scriptures are you using to arrive that statement?

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15 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, but he is NOT a type of Christ in the way YOU are trying to present Him.  The Bible isn't saying that Adam is type of Christ the same manner in which  it presents other types like.   The point is that while their is parallelism between Adam and Jesus, the parallelism is contrastive.   In typology, the focus is always on similarities and the type is fulfilled by the anti-Type.  Paul isn't using Adam as a type of Christ except to point out the differences.   Nothing about Adam is being "fulfilled"  by Jesus.  Everything about Adam and Jesus in Romans 5:12-21 is showing just how opposite they are.

 

Hi Shiloh,

Thank you for now being polite and seeking to discuss.

Here is the similarity I see scripture tells us of Adam and Jesus, the last Adam.

`And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

Adam - a living being.                                                                                                                                                                                       

The last Adam - a life-giving spirit.

Thus we see the similarity; the first Adam was head of creation, while the last Adam, (Jesus) is the head of the new creation.

Marilyn.

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15 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 

No, no.   Adam was given dominion over nature.  Adam's dominion over nature was extended to all mankind.    Jesus was given LORDSHIP over the nations of the whole world.   Jesus already owned the natural world.

God never lost legal possession of the earth. 

What Scriptures are you using to arrive that statement?

Hi Shiloh,            

Thank you for asking. So let`s look at this in more detail. Now you would know that Reuben, Jacob`s first born should have inherited the priesthood, the birthright and the kingdom. However as we know he sinned and those portions were given to his other brothers -

Levi - the priesthood.                                                                                                        

Joseph - the birthright (double portion)                                                                          

Judah - the kingdom.

Now we also know that they are representative of our Lord. He is God the Father`s firstborn, and as such He is the rightful heir to all God`s estates. He is a priest, Israel`s king, (with the kingdom) and the rightful heir.

Thus we see in the illustration the wicked vine- dressers planning to kill the heir and seize the inheritance.

`But when the vine-dressers saw the son, they said among themselves, "This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance." (Matt. 21: 38)

However we know that God the Father has promised the inheritance of His estates to His first-born Son, Jesus.

God the Father says -

`The Lord has said to me, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession.` (Ps. 2: 7 & 8)

As part of the Godhead Christ always owned the earth, and then as a (God) man, He is given the nations and the earth as His inheritance. Being heir He has the legal right to these.

 

Marilyn.

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Guest shiloh357
7 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

Thank you for now being polite and seeking to discuss.

Here is the similarity I see scripture tells us of Adam and Jesus, the last Adam.

`And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

Adam - a living being.                                                                                                                                                                                       

The last Adam - a life-giving spirit.

Thus we see the similarity; the first Adam was head of creation, while the last Adam, (Jesus) is the head of the new creation.

Marilyn.

One is made a living being. The other is the life giver.   Sorry, but those are not true similarities.  Could not be more different.

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,            

Thank you for asking. So let`s look at this in more detail. Now you would know that Reuben, Jacob`s first born should have inherited the priesthood, the birthright and the kingdom. However as we know he sinned and those portions were given to his other brothers -

Levi - the priesthood.                                                                                                        

Joseph - the birthright (double portion)                                                                          

Judah - the kingdom.

Now we also know that they are representative of our Lord. He is God the Father`s firstborn, and as such He is the rightful heir to all God`s estates. He is a priest, Israel`s king, (with the kingdom) and the rightful heir.

Thus we see in the illustration the wicked vine- dressers planning to kill the heir and seize the inheritance.

`But when the vine-dressers saw the son, they said among themselves, "This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance." (Matt. 21: 38)

However we know that God the Father has promised the inheritance of His estates to His first-born Son, Jesus.

God the Father says -

`The Lord has said to me, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession.` (Ps. 2: 7 & 8)

As part of the Godhead Christ always owned the earth, and then as a (God) man, He is given the nations and the earth as His inheritance. Being heir He has the legal right to these.

 

Marilyn.

My question was concerning the notion that God lost legal possession of the earth.   Your answer doesn't support that. 

And would remind you that your answer is NOT hermeneutics.   You are still not clearly grasping what hermeneutics are.   You are basically engaging in homiletics.

 

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2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

One is made a living being. The other is the life giver.   Sorry, but those are not true similarities.  Could not be more different.

 

Shiloh, here again is what I said -

Here is the similarity I see scripture tells us of Adam and Jesus, the last Adam.

`And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

Adam - a living being.                                                                                                                                                                                       

The last Adam - a life-giving spirit.

Thus we see the similarity; the first Adam was head of creation, while the last Adam, (Jesus) is the head of the new creation

Note: - you are looking at the wrong part. The word `head` is the similarity.

Adam the HEAD of creation, mankind, & over all creation.

The last Adam - Christ, is also a HEAD, but of a NEW CREATION.

Marilyn.

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2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 

My question was concerning the notion that God lost legal possession of the earth.   Your answer doesn't support that. 

 

Now bro Shiloh, where on earth did I say that. Quotes please!

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