Justin Adams Posted September 17, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Online Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Me neither. However Yeshua and Paul and others in the OT quoted Enoch and Jasher and some other books. So why should we not read them, especially if it helps to give us more insight and perhaps warnings of the age to come? These books were part of what the Israelites (Jews) studied in those early days even before Yeshua was sacrificed. Edited September 17, 2017 by Justin Adams typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 15 hours ago, Justin Adams said: There are indeed many book that are Inspired by the Lord God. I think that the 66 books can be included in that number but I do not see that God's Inspirations can be limited by man's understanding to a particular number of books. Can the "create" limit the CREATOR? I think not. We tread on very dangerous ground if we dare try to limit our Lord God who made all that is from that which is not. He is Alpha and Omega. He is un-create. He is I AM. The problem is that inspiration is a doctrine and the Bible's inspiration has specific, unique hallmarks. There are unique characteristics to the Scriptures that outside documents don't possess. The character and claims of Scripture set it apart and sanctify it from other ancient works. Often people simply call outside books "inspired" in order to justify using those books to support something they want to believe, because they can't use the Bible to to support those beliefs. In addition, those works in some places, contradict the Bible, so if the Bible contradicts an extra-biblical work, which direction do we go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 15 hours ago, Justin Adams said: Me neither. However Yeshua and Paul and others in the OT quoted Enoch and Jasher and some other books. So why should we not read them, especially if it helps to give us more insight and perhaps warnings of the age to come? These books were part of what the Israelites (Jews) studied in those early days even before Yeshua was sacrificed. The problem is that you cannot guarantee the accuracy of those sources at all points regarding the claims they made. The fact that the Bible quotes Enoch, doesn't mean that the book of Enoch is inspired or on the same level as the Bible. The Bible quotes from historical sources and Paul even quoted a pagan poet, but that doesn't mean everything the poet wrote is suddenly important to us. Quote So why should we not read them, especially if it helps to give us more insight and perhaps warnings of the age to come? Because they are not prophecies. And since they are not in Scripture, they should not be relied upon for biblical insights or given prophetic value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Online Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Thanks be to the Lord that the Holy Spirit is still there to guide. Reading the 'Holy Fathers' or Church Fathers and keeping the mind open to consider the actual meanings behind some of the Apostles writings will help us discover what the Lord wants us to know. Sometimes we take ourselves too seriously! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 31 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Thanks be to the Lord that the Holy Spirit is still there to guide. The Holy Spirit only inspired 66 books and those are the Scriptures He uses to guide us. Quote Reading the 'Holy Fathers' or Church Fathers and keeping the mind open to consider the actual meanings behind some of the Apostles writings will help us discover what the Lord wants us to know. No, that is not how it works. We can use the early church fathers to understand Christian thought from a historical perspective, but they are not an infallible standard against which to judge the Bible or a supplement to the biblical revelation. The Bible is what we study because it is only in the Bible that we discover what God wants us to know. You are replacing the Holy Spirit with the early church fathers and ascribing to them a role that is reserved for the Holy Spirit alone. Quote Sometimes we take ourselves too seriously! This isn't about taking ourselves seriously. It is about knowing the difference between false doctrine, which you are promoting, and the truth of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted September 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,103 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,548 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) On 9/24/2017 at 11:58 AM, Davida said: by what authority are you claiming that " indeed many books were inspired by God "? On 9/24/2017 at 11:58 AM, Davida said: A person opens the door to the spiritual swamp if they don't recognize this foundational and ultimate Godly Truth that the Bible is the inerrant WORD of GOD at the beginning when they become saved. Here we have a conundrum. You say that Justin has no authority to say what was inspired by God, yet you also say that others did have that authority. So you now have become the authority on who is an authority. Interesting. Remember, when Paul wrote that all Scripture is God-breathed, the Jews had not even finalized their canon for the Old Testament. We have no knowledge of what Paul included in his personal canon of the Scriptures. Edited September 26, 2017 by WilliamL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 26, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Online Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 On 9/18/2017 at 11:45 AM, shiloh357 said: The Holy Spirit only inspired 66 books and those are the Scriptures He uses to guide us. Oh brother! Did you REALLY mean to say that? How on earth, or under heaven, could you possibly know that for sure? In 1600's the RCC removed some books. Originally in the 1611 bible there were 80. In the Ethiopian canon there are 88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Oh brother! Did you REALLY mean to say that? How on earth, or under heaven, could you possibly know that for sure? Because the 66 books of the Bible are unique in their message and in their construction. None of the other books you mention carry the earmarks of divine inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 26, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Online Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Ok Brother. That is just fine by me. What you believe is what you believe; Namely: "The Holy Spirit only inspired 66 books and those are the Scriptures He uses to guide us." I would hesitate to tell anyone WHAT to believe and WHY they should believe it because belief is a strictly personal thing. I would however suggest sources that have helped me understand a great deal. By this I am suggesting, based on reason. Never would I demand that another believe anything. They must study for themselves. I would be careful not to assert that what I believe is the only way the Holy Spirit can guide Christians, and those who have not yet made a conscious decision to be Saved. As I mentioned (but you did not include in your rebuttal); Namely: "In 1600's the RCC removed some books. Originally in the 1611 bible there were 80. In the Ethiopian canon there are 88." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted September 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,103 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,548 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted September 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Davida said: No conundrum whatsoever. You only think it is that because you believe that it is "others" that are speaking in the Bible Huh? I have no clue what you mean by this. 5 minutes ago, Davida said: You do Not believe the Bible IS what IT says it is. I believe what the Bible teaches. I don't believe the Bible says anything about itself, because that makes no sense. The Bible is a book, books have teachings, but books don't talk about themselves. And the Bible nowhere states, because it it unable to, that it is the sole source of inspired knowledge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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