Guest shiloh357 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I cannot, per the copyright, post any of the article, but here is the link>>> http://www.refuteit.com/the-book-of-enoch-debunked.html There are places where the book of Enoch contradicts the Bible and the authors of this article point out that it is not as ancient as many purport it to be. Here is another link that exposes the problems with the book of Enoch and why it is such a dangerous book >>>http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm It denies the deity of Jesus, claims that human women gave birth to giants who stood 4,500 feet tall, and contradicts the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Enoch was likely written by the Essenes, who were a pseudo pagan cult, which would explain why it is found among the dead seas scrolls. It dates to around the same time the Apocryphal books were written. Feel free to refute the information given in the links or in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: It denies the deity of Jesus This isn't true at all. Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth,glorify Him who has dominion over all things, Him who was concealed;for from eternity the Son of Man was concealed, whom the Most High preserved in the presence of His power and revealed to the elect. He shall sow the congregation of the saints, and of the elect; and all the elect shall stand before Him in that day.All the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who rule over the earth shall fall down on their faces before Him, and shall WORSHIP HIM.They shall fix their hopes on this Son of Man... Then the sword of the Lord of Spirits shall be drunk from them (the lost);but the saints and the elect shall be safe in that day; nor the faceof the sinners and the ungodly shall they thence-forth behold.The Lord of Spirits shall remain over them;And with this Son of Man shall they dwell, eat, lie down,and rise up for ever and ever... Enoch 61:10-13 Chapter 62 in the R.H. Charles version Edited September 18, 2017 by Jude1:3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said: This isn't true at all. Yes it is true: 1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits. "Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible. IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis."~ http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) No it's not true: And the Elect One shall in those days sit on My throne, And his mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel: For the Lord of Spirits hath given (them) to him and hath glorified him. • 1 Enoch 51:3 Edited September 18, 2017 by Jude1:3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,027 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,768 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2017 Having too much fun at Branson th get too involved.... will return next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: there should be numerous New Testament references This lists a bunch of them: http://alaskandreams.net/ekklesia/Book of Enoch NT Verses.htm I think this site uses the Richard Laurence Version. Edited September 18, 2017 by Jude1:3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said: This lists a bunch of them: http://alaskandreams.net/ekklesia/Book of Enoch NT Verses.htm I think this site uses the Richard Laurence Version. I guess you and I differ over what qualifies as a quote from the NT or from the book of Enoch. What I see is a lot stretching and straining at gnats. Quote Enoch 14:1 This is the book of the words of righteousness, and of the reproof of the Watchers, who belong to the world, according to that which He, who is holy and great, commanded in the vision. I perceived in my dream, that I was now speaking with a tongue of flesh, and with my breath, which the Mighty One has put into the mouth of men, that they might converse with it.Enoch 83:1 1I lifted up my hands in righteousness, and blessed the holy, and the Great One. I spoke with the breath of my mouth, and with a tongue of flesh, which God has formed for all the sons of mortal men, that with it they may speak; giving them breath, a mouth, and a tongue to converse with.I Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak in the tongues of men and of Angels . . . No similarity at all... Quote (The phrase King of Kings and Lord of Lords is used 3x’s in the New Testament. The importance of this is that other than in the Book of Enoch this phrase is not found in the Old Testament.) "King of kings," "Lord of lords" or similar titles were used in the OT. And similar terms are used in the OT. Ezek. 26:7: "king of kings;" Dan. 2:37: "king of kings;" Deut. 10: 17: :God of gods, "Lord of lords." Dan. 2:47: "God of gods," "Lord of kings." So your source is quite a bit wrong; really wrong. Quote Enoch 3:1-3 All who are in the heavens know what is transacted there.They know that the heavenly luminaries change not their paths; that each rises and sets regularly, every one at its proper period, without transgressing the commands, which they have received. The behold the earth, and understand what is there transacted, from the beginning to the end of it.They see that every work of God is invariable in the period of its appearance. <P>Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: In what universe are they saying the same thing??? Going through the list, it is the same. The Enoch quotes that are supposed to reflect the NT don't. You really have to stretch your imagination to buy in that nonsense. Your source is wrong all the way around and doesn't know what he or she is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, shiloh357 said: Jesus is not "elect" in Scripture. "Elect" refers to people God chose. The Bible NEVER refers to Jesus by that term. It would diminish His deity. No it doesn't diminish His Deity. • Revelation 3:21 makes the reference to The Lord Jesus Christ sitting with His Father on His Throne and that is the verse it is referring to in • 1 Enoch 51:3 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. • Revelation 3:21 And the Elect One shall in those days sit on My throne, And his mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel: For the Lord of Spirits hath given (them) to him and hath glorified him. • 1 Enoch 51:3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Jesus is not "elect" in Scripture. "Elect" refers to people God chose. The Bible NEVER refers to Jesus by that term. It would diminish His deity. "Here is My servant, whom I uphold, my Elect One in whom I delight." • Isaiah 42:1 Edited September 18, 2017 by Jude1:3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted September 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2017 56 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: "King of kings," "Lord of lords" or similar titles were used in the OT. And similar terms are used in the OT. Ezek. 26:7: "king of kings;" Dan. 2:37: "king of kings;" Deut. 10: 17: :God of gods, "Lord of lords." Dan. 2:47: "God of gods," "Lord of kings." So your source is quite a bit wrong; really wrong. I freely admit that you are correct about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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